The bible is written to God's own! Lack of understanding means He not talking to you.
Written 1000's of years ago but got current event perfectly. Must be of God! I assert if one does not understand the bible the God not talking to you.
1. Eze_20:49, Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
Mat_13:3, And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
Mat_13:10, And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat_13:13, Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat_13:34, All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mat_13:35, That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
2. The bible is easy to understand if one refers to the Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic culture.
2Co_11:22, Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
Phi_3:5, Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Rev_9:11, And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Rev_16:16, And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
3. The Russian current events pertaining to the dead sea and the land around it! Are coming to past!
Though I will not be working from within the Bible most of the time as my position is to demonstrate:
The Bible Clearly Is Not Written To His Own:
But writings from Oral Tradition which are Chronologically Inaccurate and thus the Prophecies from within the Bible are thus, also entirely Inaccurate.
Such as it matters little which language you seek to interpret the Bible from, the End Of Time Prophesies upheld by modern Evangelical Christian groups such as the conflicts between descendents of Jacob and his twin Brother have nothing at all to do with current times.
The tales of the Bible have been debunked many times by scholars and much of the Bible accounts of history are entirely Wrong, such as the march of the Israelites never occurred as the Book of Exodus is entirely make believe.
Using scripture from within a make believe book does little to support the book as real.
Thus it is entirely useless to use parables that are entirely fictitious, as there is no proof that their authors existed and that they were not simply made up when the books of the Old Testament were doctored 200BC and again 370AD.
So I bear little belief of what is written inside books that I once studied and found to be entirely Fraudulent, such as The Bible, therefore I do not care for nor take any notice of what is written within.
Because most of what is written within conflicts with itself.
This is why there are so many stupid End Of Times Prophesies and Christian Sects.
Because the Bible can be Cherry picked to make it mean whatever you want, but there is also many passages that will conflict with and contradict those cherry picked passages, such as those cherry picked by Pro.
Notice he chose small parts of whole sections of passages, chances are that if anybody would read the entire chapter that those cherry picked passages arose from, the interpretation would be quite different.
Such is the reason there are so many Disputes Within Christianity itself.
It's better to sit on the outside looking in and criticize the feuding between Christian Sects than to be a Christian within the Feud.
That is the position I prefer.
Whether any God wants to communicate with me is up to that God alone.
I really am not interested in such communication.
If I did communicate with any such God, I'd know it was only a Hallucination.
Just like the Hallucinations Abraham had which started the Old Testament in the first place.
Thanks Pro and over to You: XD~
So whether any God talks to us or not, bears little consequence for anybody.
I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate. Unlike my opponent, I will stand on God's word, Not Oral Traditions that changes with men, time, and culture. If one does not understand the bible is because they did not refer to the Hebrew/Greek and rightly divide in order to understand the bible. Example one can attack people of the Christian faith, and easily discredit the religion because, one could say God approved of slavery. Knowing most Christians have been trained to be spineless, lukewarm, and afraid to offend anyone. When in fact slavery is a reality. God did tell masters how to treat slaves and servants (People who work for a paycheck! The check stub come from MASTER!). And the bible tells slaves how to survive their masters. Many have been sold the American Dream but in reality they are modern day slaves. When a family pays a million dollars over 30 years for a house that cost $300,000. that the bank got for pennies. Makes that family a slave to the banking system and credit card debt. https://www.google.com... opponent mentioned prophecy.An example of bible prophecy being fulfulled in our day is when lsrael regained ancient land after 1000's of years. May 1948 May the Fig Tree was replanted. No nation in history has ever become as rich and powerful in a short period of time so, say God helped. I say God's Hand is on Israel.The Burden of Damascus was fulfilled May of last year.
Isaiah 7:8-98For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.9And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.
Isa_17:1, The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap. Isa_17:2, The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid. Isa_17:3, The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts. Isa_17:4, And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean. Isa_17:5, And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim.
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The prophecy concerning Egypt are being fulfilled.And currently prophecies concerning Russia=Edom and Bozora=Urakine are current events today.
Isa_19:1, The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. Isa_19:2, And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. Isa_19:3, And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. Isa_19:4, And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. Isa_19:5, And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
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Bozra was a ancient city off the coast of the Dead Sea invaded by Russia=Edom!
Isa_63:1, Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. Jer_48:24, And upon Kerioth, and upon Bozrah, and upon all the cities of the land of Moab, far or near. Jer_49:13, For I have sworn by myself, saith the LORD, that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes. Jer_49:22, Behold, he shall come up and fly as the eagle, and spread his wings over Bozrah: and at that day shall the heart of the mighty men of Edom be as the heart of a woman in her pangs. Amo_1:12, But I will send a fire upon Teman, which shall devour the palaces of Bozrah. Mic_2:12, I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.
According to Archaeological and Anthropological research, these tribes had completely dissipated by the time of the Roman and Byzantine periods up to around CE 330.
They have dispersed and intermingled, there is no definite, traceable remnants of these tribal groups, which shared many similar genetic traits and by the modern era have introduced many crossovers with many people having connections to all the tribes mentioned in the Bible.
Though since the first books of the Bible have been deemed false by Archaeological and Anthropological investigations in that it appears that Moses may not have existed and if he did exist, he did not
Thus apart from the Bible being somewhat false chronologically, it is also plagued with errors of the period in which it was written, The tribes existed and were conflicting at the period, but once invaded by a common enemy, such as the Romans, they appeared to have settled their differences and joined forces against their common enemy, thus the divisions vanished and so did their conflicts.
There is no war between the tribes of Biblical times present in the modern world.
It's only Biblical, End Of Times Charlatans that exploit the ancient Bronze Age myths to convince people that the Middle East Conflicts hold Biblical Significance, which they actually Do Not.
On the Mythical Nature of the Christian Bible:
Such as if Moses never wrote the first books of the Bible, who did?
If the first books of the Bible are so Fabricated, Then why should anybody ever accept the rest of the Bible as having any Truth?
Because if the basis of the Bible, the stories of Moses and Abraham are Fictitious, then so must be the rest of it!
And the Israelite tribes did not really belong in Israel, they actually came from Turkey and Southern Russia, from DNA evidence.
Making much of the Bible Mythical.
And An article on the Edom Myth!
That will do for now:
Over to Pro.
I guess Putin does not trust that God will destroy in the latter the red army that attacks Israel.
I ask my opponent how did the bible know Israel would kick Palestine out! (Palistine! IS OF PHILISTINE ROOTS LIKE OLD TIME BATTLES SUCH AS DAVID AND GOLIATH?)
Reality begs to differ. Try again!
Pro asked the age old Question concerning scriptural prophecies and conspiracy theories: "I ask my opponent how did the bible know Israel would kick Palestine out! (?) "
Fact is, the Bible did not know anything, it is a Book and books are not conscious, nor does the Bible change, but people cherry pick sections and claim those sections are relevant or a prophecy.
Another fact is that if people or a peoples (as in the Jewish people) believe in a prophecy strong enough they will deliberately try and make it happen, just to see, we told you the Bible is right.
This type of deliberate attempts to make a prediction appear true occurs both consciously and subconsciously in humans.
If a person believes in a psychic strongly enough, that person may subconsciously believe the predictions enough to actually will them into being.
The power of suggestion is very strong indeed.
Brainwashing techniques are mostly about harnessing the power of suggestion to control individuals.
When it becomes a group, the power of suggestion is amplified by the numbers in the group.
When it is a nation, then the prophecies believed by a group will often be enacted by the group because they believe in it.
Not because there was actually any real knowledge in the writers of the predictions.
This is known as a "self-fulfilling prophecy"
If one President believes very strongly that a prophesy states that when a crisis appears in the Middle East he will activate and fire a nuclear weapon, when he is the control room because of such a Middle East crisis, he will be very tempted to fire the weapon, as he senses that it is what he is destined or supposed to do.
In simple terms, his knowledge of the prophecy becomes the driving force for him to enact the prophecy, or he is locked into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Though the Bible doesn't give a chronologically accurate time line either and since there is always conflict in that region, it was bound to happen whether the Bible predicted it or not.
If the Bible actually gave an accurate date of the prediction, we could judge it's accuracy, but since it didn't and supposedly Palestine didn't get kicked this century, but the next, then Christians next century would be making the same claim of Biblical accuracy, which is somewhat ridiculous it shows lack of accuracy in the prophecies.
The Prophecy is not accurate, it is a generalization which may possibly occur anyway, so nobody, not even yourself can truly claim that the events are a result of the Biblical prophecy, but since the people in Israel believed in the prophecy strongly as it states on Jewish sites, then the event is likely a result in the belief in the prophecy forcing it and not really because the Bible writer knew it would happen.
On the Israel Conflicts: The Jewish View.
Thanks Pro, back to you now.
I will begin by addressing my opponents claim that all the bible battles are in the past.
I say that is a false statement. Or gross error.
1. When did Jesus fight a battle? Is my opponent claiming that the Day of the Lord mentioned many time in the bible happened already in the past! When?
King James Version (KJV)
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
2. What era did the the battle of Gog and Magog take place? You think Putin never read about Russia in the bible.
3. Why are two TV stations camped at the Mt. of Olives for Jesus to come?
Daystar, TBN ready for Messiah in Jerusalem - Los Angeles Times
Firstly I will address your question: "1. When did Jesus fight a battle? Is my opponent claiming that the Day of the Lord mentioned many time in the bible happened already in the past! When?"
Jesus never fought any Battles and never will For a few reasons:
1: Jesus was not really a Messiah, as Jesus Christ did not fulfill all the Messianic Prophecies in The Old Testament at most he was a preacher who espoused Buddhist teaching, which is his main claim to fame, introducing Buddhist concepts to Jews:
Because Historians doubt very much that Jesus arose from a Virgin Birth, he was much more likely the love or rape child of a Roman Soldier, who some named as Pantera than the son of a Virgin though the story cannot be proved nor disproved, but the probability for truth is far higher than a true virgin birth.
Story has it that Mary was actually found guilty of Adultery. Though evidence is lacking.
Very likely Mary claimed to be a virgin to avoid the punishment for being pregnant out of wedlock, which was being stoned to death. At the same time, many women also claimed to have virgin births or some claimed to become pregnant from bathing in the same water as men. Such was the knowledge of biology at the time, that they could get away with such nonsense.
Here is an open minded analysis of the Pantera, Father of Jesus Saga.
Either way, the Virgin Birth was fictitious.
So was the Resurrection, since there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus was truly Resurrected, nor ascended into Heaven. If the Virgin Birth is not true and the Resurrection is not true as there is no real evidence for either, then Jesus cannot be truly considered as a God and thus cannot come back from the dead and fight any war.
Thus the prophecies in Revelations or Jesus arising at the End Of Times can truly be considered as utter nonsense.
2: The Tribes of Israel have been demonstrated by DNA testing to be False, and the escape from Egypt by the so called Israelites has also been condemned by Archaeological and Anthropological evidence, even from Jewish scholars/researchers as Fiction.
If the Tribes of Israel never existed and the Exodus is nonsense (Israelites never escaped from Egypt to Canaan) then the stories and prophecies that resulted from those in the Bible, are also fictitious and cannot possibly be Correct.
A Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org...
"DNA studies have found no evidence of any lost tribes. DNA studies have refuted any connection between modern-day ethnic Jews and most of the ethnic groups discussed below as possible Lost Tribe candidates, with the exception of the Lemba of southeastern Africa, for whom only a Y-chromosome connection to a few ethnic Jews has been confirmed."
A Mormon View: http://en.mormonlady.se...
At least the Mormons took notice of DNA evidence!
Some Claimed that Israel forming a nation fulfilled Biblical Prophecy, it apparently did not according to many historians.
3: There have been many misquotes, broken promises and missed Prophecies from the Bible which actually proves the Bible as unreliable.
Thus Pro is making brash predictions from a proved unreliable source.
If the Bible was the source of the Premise for Deductive Reasoning, the Conclusion will most likely be False.
This source mentions 10 failed Bible prophecies: http://pay2cem.hubpages.com...
Many Christian groups falsely and criminally promote the Bible as a reliable source of Prophecies, when factually it is certainly not. Historical studies have proved it totally unreliable and much of the Chronological knowledge of the Bible writers is False.
We are also not in a world surrounded by a Dome Of Water as Genesis 1 states.
Thus the Bible is wrong in it's description of Physical Reality.
Practically the Bible is wrong about everything save a few events in its own time.
Pro also asks: "2. What era did the the battle of Gog and Magog take place? You think Putin never read about Russia in the bible. (?) "
Well simply: Russia has nothing to do with Magog, this is a Christian evangelist misconception of history and reality.
Their concepts and predictions are entirely False. So it cannot and will not happen!!!!
Quoting from: http://www.newscientificevidenceforgod.com...
"Many end times aficionados believe that Magog represents Russia and that Russia will soon come to invade Israel. However, the ancient Assyrians had dealings with Magog, and their Court records clearly identify Magog and it is not Russia. For decades Christians have been deceived and have been unwittingly deceiving others about who is to be involved in the prophesied invasion of Israel. Russia has absolutely nothing to do with Magog and being the nation that will lead an invasion of Israel."
A Question to Pro: What makes you think the Bible and the prophecies within are so inerrant when all research evidence states otherwise?
I would like to thank my opponent for this debate.
However he quotes errors of men as his proof of the bible being in error!
I refute his claim. My opponent quoted: "There have been many misquotes, broken promises and missed Prophecies from the Bible which actually proves the Bible as unreliable. "
Because anyone who said the world would end before the replanted Israel would be attacked and mostly destroyed. Is in error of God's Word!
8 The lion has roared; who will not fear? The Lord God has spoken; who can but prophesy?
9 Publish to the strongholds in Ashdod [Philistia] and to the strongholds in the land of Egypt, and say, Assemble yourselves upon the mountains of Samaria, and behold what great tumults (confusion and disorder) are in her and what oppressions are in the midst of her.
10 For they know not how to do right, says the Lord, they who store up violence and robbery in their strongholds.
11 Therefore thus says the Lord God: An adversary shall surround the land, and he shall bring down your defenses from you and your strongholds shall be plundered.
12 Thus says the Lord: As the shepherd rescues out of the mouth of the lion two legs or a piece of an ear [of a sheep], so shall the children of Israel who dwell in Samaria be rescued with the corner of a couch and [part of] the damask covering of a bed.
13 Hear and bear witness in the house of Jacob, says the Lord God, the God of hosts,
I guess my opponnet can argue if Essau of the bible who is not the Russian who is taking over the Ukraine=the nation near the Red Sea that will attack God's People!
7 So I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza which shall devour its strongholds.
8 And I will cut off the inhabitants from Ashdod and him who holds the scepter from Ashkelon, and I will turn My hand against Ekron; and the rest of the Philistines [in Gath and the towns dependent on these four Philistine cities] shall perish, says the Lord God.
9 Thus says the Lord: For three transgressions of Tyre and for four [for multiplied delinquencies], I will not reverse the punishment of itor revoke My word concerning it, because they [as middlemen] delivered up a whole [Jewish] population to Edom and did not [seriously] remember their brotherly covenant.
10 So I will send a fire on the wall of Tyre which shall devour its strongholds.
11 Thus says the Lord: For three transgressions of Edom [descendants of Esau] and for four [for multiplied delinquencies], I will not reverse the punishment of it or revoke My word concerning it, because he pursued his brother Jacob (Israel) with the sword, corrupting his compassions and casting off all pity, and his anger tore perpetually and his wrath he kept and heeded forever.
12 So I will send a fire upon Teman which shall devour the strongholds of Bozrah [in Edom]. RUSSIA!
13 Thus says the Lord: For three transgressions of the children of Ammon [descendants of Lot] and for four [for multiplied delinquencies], I will not reverse the punishment of it or revoke My word concerning it, because [the Ammonites] have ripped up women with child in Gilead, that they might enlarge their border.
14 So I will kindle a fire in the wall of Rabbah [in Ammon] and it shall devour the strongholds of it, with shouting in the day of battle, with a tempest in the day of the whirlwind;
15 And their king shall go into exile, he and his princes together, says the Lord.
Thanks Pro for This Interesting Debate!
If an Alien or some culture in the next 100 years finds a Spiderman comic, they may consider Spiderman as real because New York City and Manhattan as described within the comics Exist.
Biblical scribes wrote from personal experiences and their knowledge of their surroundings in which some villages or cities and geological features already existed, just as the creator of Spiderman decided to use his knowledge of New York City within his comics, rather than create a fictitious environment for their characters as other comic writers have done.
Many fiction writers have also used local features and villages in their work, such as the creator of the fictional film character Sweeney Todd, a barber who supposedly butchered homeless clients and sent them down a chute to a woman who turned them into pork pies for sale.
Many believed the story to be real, since it was based in London on known streets with known features, which James Malcolm Rymer incorporated into the 1938 “Penny Dreadful” series of horror films.
So to consider places and geological structures as evidence for Biblical Truths is entirely Fallacious.
It only means the Authors knew of those places or landmarks, not that the events actually
To confirm that events occurred, requires actual evidence for the Event, not just a place for the Event to occur.
There is little if any evidence for any of the events within the Bible.
Though back to the Topic:
I cannot possibly consider that: “The bible is written to God's own!”
As the Bible, if dictated/inspired by God whispering/talking/communicating to man got it's description of the world and the universe so very very WRONG.
Demonstrating absolutely no Omniscience in the Bible.
The mistakes start at the very start of The Book Of Genesis and get markedly worse as one ventures further and further into the Bible.
If we lived on a:
1: Circular Flat Earth (Genesis 11:1-9, Isaiah 40:22 and many more)
2: A solid dome (Firmament) supported by pillars, stretched over the Earth which has stars attached, that will fall to Earth if the pillars holding this Dome which supports Heaven are shaken. (1 Samuel 2:8 , Job 9:6 ,Job 26:11 ,Matthew 24:29 , Mark 13:25Revelation 6:13 , Revelation 12:4 , Revelation 9:1 ,and many many more).
I don't want to be killed by a star falling on me, OUCH!
3: The Earth has Ends and Corners, what, firstly the Bible described it as a circle now it has corners. Does this mean the Earth is a Square-Circle? Hmmm! (Revelation 7:1, Isaiah 11:12)
If we lived on such a circle under such a dome, I might believe the Bible as truthful, and word of a God, since we don't live in such a world, the Bible is Inept and the God is not knowledgeable or Omniscient, if these were the whispers of a God the God is an Idiot.
If an Omniscient creator cannot describe it's own creation to man accurately, how could it possibly be Omniscient.
Many good scholars leave Christianity, because there are so many Mistakes In The Bible:
Here are some of the Gospel errors exposed by this highly regarded N.T. Scholar:
These are Biblical Prophecies in the Last Book of The Bible, or the End Of Times Prophecies that Cannot Possibly Happen, because there is no knowledge of reality existing there as there should be if the book was dictated by an almighty, omnipotent, omniscient God.
Thus the Bible is Inept and the prophecies that have been cited as from the Bible, were just wrongly associated with the Bible by delusional witnesses or occurred because they believed the prophecies so strongly that they deliberately invoked the event.
Mostly the events are general and can be wrongly construed as being associated with Naive Biblical Prophecy when in fact they have absolutely nothing to do with the Biblical Prophecies.
Essentially, the knowledge inside the Bible (Earth as a square circle) is mostly nonsense and certainly not from an omniscient God.
Thus, considering the Gross discrepancies and erroneous concepts of reality within the Bible, it is Impossible to ever believe that The Bible Is Written to God's Own.
Thus if such a God wanted to talk to me, I will hang up the telephone or direct God to my answering machine and never reply!
Thanks again Pro and Good Luck!