The Instigator
Youngastronomer
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Arganger
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The boy scouts should only allow boys

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 218 times Debate No: 106683
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
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Youngastronomer

Pro

I will argue that the boy scouts should avoid allowing girls in because of the name and the purpose.

Con will prove that they should continue to allow girls in there (and yes, girls are allowed there now.)

Rules:
1) No trolling
2) No insults/curse matches
3) No ad hominem
4) Try to collect reputable sources

Rounds:
1) Acceptance
2) Opinion
3) Rebuttals
4) Defence
Arganger

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Youngastronomer

Pro

The boy scouts should only be allowing boys because it's made for young boys to sit away from sexual desires and also become men. Allowing girls in there will defeat the whole purpose of boy scouts.

Considering this, the name itself suggests it's only for boys, it's not just "Scouts", "Mixed scouts", etc. Allowing girls in there is plain wrong.

Not only that, this will allow teenagers mix together at the peek of their sex drive or desire (13-18). It's a bad idea to send people of both genders together. They will end up with illicit relations or worse, molesting, perhaps even early pregnancy.

We also have the girl scouts available for girls to join, but people still complain about the boy scouts not allowing girls.

But they prefer the boy scouts as they do survival and leadership skills.

But they can join the military instead.

[1] http://motto.time.com...
[2] https://youtu.be...
[3] https://youtu.be...
Arganger

Con

I see no issue with allowing girls in boy scouts.

I find it odd that you said "perhaps even early pregnancy" as if that is worse than molestation, but I'll not get into that.

Young boys and girls are exposed to each other constantly, boy scouts doesn't affect that at all even without girls. Boy scouts is supposed to help boys learn respect and to treat people well in general, correct? Than that is the last place sexual abuse is likely to happen. I know people who were sexually abused at school, but that doesn't mean that schools should be segregated.

Boy scouts isn't equal to girl scouts, as much as people like to push that idea. Boy scouts, if you stick to it, can increase your job opportunities and collage choose, but girl scouts does no such thing. At least not near the same extent.

Therefore, without allowing girls into boy scouts, you limit a route of opportunity to a single sex.

The military is no replacement either, as the military puts your life on the line.

Not to mention the boy scouts itself exists for them to have fun and learn things, not to paint a sign on a tree house saying, "No girls allowed."

The girl scouts also have age peramiders to reach diffrent ranks which is frustrating for many whom find themselves wanting to do more (Actually why both my older sisters quit). Girl scouts also has a different emphasis in general than boy scouts, of which many young girls find more appeling.

In some cases there may not be a girl scout troop available in someones area, and boy scouts may be the only available opportunity. Or may just not fit in, I know I wouldn't of.

I would avoid using youtube channels in general as sources, especially those ones.

Boy Scouts of America made the decision for a reason, and it is more than their right to do so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Debate Round No. 2
Youngastronomer

Pro

Beginning rebuttals, will all be done one by one and gradually:

Con says: "I see no issue with allowing girls in boy scouts."
There's plenty of issues, first of all it is called the "boy scouts". We don't really let girls into men's bathrooms or into school dormitories, it's basically the same logic. I wouldn't let girls enter the men's bathroom, so why let them in the boy scouts?

The hypocritical part is that boys can't enter the girl scouts even though the girls want to join the boy scouts.

Con says: "I find it odd that you said "perhaps even early pregnancy" as if that is worse than molestation, but I'll not get into that."
No no, just mean that both can happen because teenagers have larger sex drives than children or adults as they've just hit puberty. The idea of the boy scouts is for boys to officially become men and survive out in the wilderness. Also, the boys will not focus too well on the merits and rewards, their minds would end up focusing on girls because that's how teenage boys function, I'm saying this as a 15 year old myself (although I'm not a boy scout, I understand the whole idea behind it)

Con says: "Young boys and girls are exposed to each other constantly, boy scouts doesn't affect that at all even without girls. Boy scouts is supposed to help boys learn respect and to treat people well in general, correct? Than that is the last place sexual abuse is likely to happen. I know people who were sexually abused at school, but that doesn't mean that schools should be segregated."
Yes in school or in public where there's a load of people around them, in the scouts they are in tents on their on trying to survive. Also, the whole point of boy scouts is to allow boys to officially become men and remain away from the opposite sex preventing sexual desire from taking them over.

Con says: "Boy scouts isn't equal to girl scouts, as much as people like to push that idea. Boy scouts, if you stick to it, can increase your job opportunities and collage choose, but girl scouts does no such thing. At least not near the same extent."
Then what girls should do is simply join the girl scouts and point out the problems they have and do their best to fix the girl scouts, not ruin another organization.

Con says: "Therefore, without allowing girls into boy scouts, you limit a route of opportunity to a single sex."
But boys need to be separated from girls as it's the boy scouts, it's why people join, to become men and fight off their desires and also earn survival skills. It's unfortunate because girls seem to not want men to remain in a place away from girls. What they do in the boy scouts actually works best with single-sex.

Con says: "The military is no replacement either, as the military puts your life on the line."
Unlikely, because no military would send 11-18 (Maybe 18 year old youths but unlikely) year old youths to go to Afghanistan or Iraq to engage in combat. And putting combat out, it won't risk life, it's just hard training.

Con says: "Not to mention the boy scouts itself exists for them to have fun and learn things, not to paint a sign on a tree house saying, "No girls allowed."
Con's point here does not seem to make that much sense as he really just pointed out what the boy scouts are for with a different vocab, that is kind of the point, it is for boys only after all because the name is "boy scouts" not "co-ed scouts."

Con says: "The girl scouts also have age peramiders to reach diffrent ranks which is frustrating for many whom find themselves wanting to do more (Actually why both my older sisters quit). Girl scouts also has a different emphasis in general than boy scouts, of which many young girls find more appeling."
Again, what they should be doing is try to fix the girl scouts and not damage the boy scouts because they happen to do activities that they are interested in.

Con says: "In some cases there may not be a girl scout troop available in someones area, and boy scouts may be the only available opportunity. Or may just not fit in, I know I wouldn't of."
Not sure how con makes sense in this particular statement. This is not a good enough excuse for a girl to force her way into the boy scouts.

Con says: "I would avoid using youtube channels in general as sources, especially those ones."
That's a good point, but some of them are actually quite valid and explain pretty well despite being from YouTube. Besides, not many people will want to create a blog about this issue as it's pretty much common sense that girls should not be allowed in boy scouts and vice versa. But the YouTube source I gave was uploaded by a gentleman who was a former boy scout and he understands the whole idea behind it, so it's pretty much a decent source.

Con says: "Boy Scouts of America made the decision for a reason, and it is more than their right to do so."
It's their right but a lot of people will not allow their sons to become boy scouts from now because of the damage done from allowing girls into the organization.

[1] https://www.youtube.com...
[2] http://motto.time.com...
[3] https://youtu.be...
[4] https://www.theblaze.com...
Arganger

Con

Pro says: We don't really let girls into men's bathrooms or into school dormitories, it's basically the same logic. I wouldn't let girls enter the men's bathroom, so why let them in the boy scouts?

I honestly don't care where someone does their business, but that is still a diffrent issue. The men's bathroom has the potential for someone to see private parts, especially with the existance of a uranal, and also has no effect on someone's future.

Pro says: No no, just mean that both can happen because teenagers have larger sex drives than children or adults as they've just hit puberty. The idea of the boy scouts is for boys to officially become men and survive out in the wilderness. Also, the boys will not focus too well on the merits and rewards, their minds would end up focusing on girls because that's how teenage boys function, I'm saying this as a 15 year old myself (although I'm not a boy scout, I understand the whole idea behind it)

I am sixteen, and though do to the fact I don't seem to have a sex drive myself for whatever reason, I believe it can still be managed. Once again, if girls and boys study together in school for eight hours a day, than scouting is the least of their worries.

Pro says: Yes in school or in public where there's a load of people around them, in the scouts they are in tents on their on trying to survive. Also, the whole point of boy scouts is to allow boys to officially become men and remain away from the opposite sex preventing sexual desire from taking them over.

Honestly they aren't "Trying to survive" they have what they need and can leave at any time. I, watching my little brother do boy scouts, defenintly don't see it as that and nether does BSA as I will show you. "It is the mission of the Boy Scouts of America to serve others by helping to instill values in young people and, in other ways, to prepare them to make ethical choices during their lifetime in achieving their full potential. The values we strive to instill are based on those found in the Scout Oath and Law."

That definitly doesn't say anything about a main value being keeping boys away from girls.

http://www.scoutingbsa.org...

Pro says: Then what girls should do is simply join the girl scouts and point out the problems they have and do their best to fix the girl scouts, not ruin another organization.

It isn't the responsibility of the children to fix the organisation, not the responsibility of Girl Scouts of the USA to change for those who don't like it. But if another organization fits their tastes, then it doesn't hurt anyone to be allowed in it.

Pro says: But boys need to be separated from girls as it's the boy scouts, it's why people join, to become men and fight off their desires and also earn survival skills. It's unfortunate because girls seem to not want men to remain in a place away from girls. What they do in the boy scouts actually works best with single-sex.

Other than just stating that they need to be seprate, you need to state a good reason why. Any girl joini
ng the boy scouts will actively want to learn such things as well.

Pro says:
Unlikely, because no military would send 11-18 (Maybe 18 year old youths but unlikely) year old youths to go to Afghanistan or Iraq to engage in combat. And putting combat out, it won't risk life, it's just hard training.

If someone is to join the military, they are learning how to kill. That is what the military is, and you cannot join the military until the age of eighteen. At that age you very well might be sent to active combat. As someone who lost their dad to iraq when I was in kindergarten, that cannot be a solution.

Pro says:
Con's point here does not seem to make that much sense as he really just pointed out what the boy scouts are for with a different vocab, that is kind of the point, it is for boys only after all because the name is "boy scouts" not "co-ed scouts."

"What's in a name, a cat by any other name still would not smell like a rose" -Rose Marie

Pro says
: Again, what they should be doing is try to fix the girl scouts and not damage the boy scouts because they happen to do activities that they are interested in.

Again, it isn't the child's responsibility to fix it.

Pro says:
Not sure how con makes sense in this particular statement. This is not a good enough excuse for a girl to force her way into the boy scouts.

It means that for someone people to gave an opportunity to scout at all, you have to be willing to let go of the word "Boy".

Pro says
: That's a good point, but some of them are actually quite valid and explain pretty well despite being from YouTube. Besides, not many people will want to create a blog about this issue as it's pretty much common sense that girls should not be allowed in boy scouts and vice versa. But the YouTube source I gave was uploaded by a gentleman who was a former boy scout and he understands the whole idea behind it, so it's pretty much a decent source.

I recognize both youtube channels actually, and the problem are they are both aviad anti-feminists. Far from unbiased as they are against anything that could be viewed as a feminist move. I understand disliking feminists but these guys can be just as bad at times.

Pro says:
It's their right but a lot of people will not allow their sons to become boy scouts from now because of the damage done from allowing girls into the organization.

I on the other hand doubt most people really care all that much. It isn't like it will become half and half either, most girls won't want to join, but those who do should be able to. The whole reason I didn't join the girl scouts was because I learned I couldn't join the boy scouts in fact. That was when I was about in first grade or kindergarten because all of my close friends were boys and I wanted to do what they were doing.
Debate Round No. 3
Youngastronomer

Pro

Con doesn't seem to respond to me saying why boys can't enter girl scouts, if they like the activities, they can join the girl scouts right? And of course, sex drives can be controlled since boys and girls can work together properly in schools.

"I honestly don't care where someone does their business, but that is still a diffrent issue. The men's bathroom has the potential for someone to see private parts, especially with the existance of a uranal, and also has no effect on someone's future."

Con makes not a lot of sense here, if someone showed their bits in the bathroom without sitting in one of the private rooms then they'd be pretty insane unless they 'd want attention. It's not really about that, it's a place for boys to express their energy and also learn how to become a man and the girl scouts is the same purpose, just girls to become women.

"I am sixteen, and though do to the fact I don't seem to have a sex drive myself for whatever reason, I believe it can still be managed. Once again, if girls and boys study together in school for eight hours a day, than scouting is the least of their worries."

You might not but I get quite a lot, yes they study together in school all the time but in school you are watched with cameras, adults and you don't spend the night together, there's a big difference in that. I wouldn't send my teenage son to co-ed overnight with a combination of girls and boys especially when they don't actually watch you all the time and there won't be many cameras as you are camping a lot while scouting.

"Honestly they aren't "Trying to survive" they have what they need and can leave at any time. I, watching my little brother do boy scouts, defenintly don't see it as that and nether does BSA as I will show you. "It is the mission of the Boy Scouts of America to serve others by helping to instill values in young people and, in other ways, to prepare them to make ethical choices during their lifetime in achieving their full potential. The values we strive to instill are based on those found in the Scout Oath and Law."

Maybe not, but the boy scouts are specifically designed for boys to express their freedom and do activities with their friends, the kind of stuff they do works best in a single-gender group. They go there to learn leadership and how to become men.

"That definitly doesn't say anything about a main value being keeping boys away from girls."

But it's not made for girls to enter the scouts even if they don't specifically keep saying "No girls can enter." I mean, the girl scouts don't do "no boys" signs a lot do they? And you don't really put up signs on your windows saying "No strangers allowed", it's not logical, it's in the name itself which is "BOY" scouts.

"Pro says: Then what girls should do is simply join the girl scouts and point out the problems they have and do their best to fix the girl scouts, not ruin another organization."

The children don't have to do it alone, they have their parents to support them in changing the organization, it would hurt a lot of people and stop a lot of boys going to allow girls in an organization explicitly for boys.

"Other than just stating that they need to be seprate, you need to state a good reason why. Any girl joining the boy scouts will actively want to learn such things as well."

Because boys have sex drives when they hit puberty and when they're away and not looking at girls, they can start focusing on activities, become more confident and learn leadership skills and also becoming men..

"If someone is to join the military, they are learning how to kill. That is what the military is, and you cannot join the military until the age of eighteen. At that age you very well might be sent to active combat. As someone who lost their dad to iraq when I was in kindergarten, that cannot be a solution."

Sorry for your loss con but anyways, they don't have to join the actual military, there's something in the military that people call cadets, cadets don't learn to kill until they're sufficiently old enough and if they want to of course.

"What's in a name, a cat by any other name still would not smell like a rose" -Rose Marie

I don't get how this quote makes sense when you speak of allowing girls into boy scouts.

"Again, it isn't the child's responsibility to fix it."

Again, get the parents involved, nobody's asking them to fix it alone.

"It means that for someone people to gave an opportunity to scout at all, you have to be willing to let go of the word "Boy".

Yes and that's a problem, because now the purpose of boy scouts will be completely destroyed by 2019, it wasn't made for girls to be allowed in the boy scouts.

"I recognize both youtube channels actually, and the problem are they are both aviad anti-feminists. Far from unbiased as they are against anything that could be viewed as a feminist move. I understand disliking feminists but these guys can be just as bad at times."

No they aren't as bad as feminists changing the meaning of rape, punishing men for made up problems, etc. But con should watch the video instead of judging the book by it's cover.

"I on the other hand doubt most people really care all that much. It isn't like it will become half and half either, most girls won't want to join, but those who do should be able to. The whole reason I didn't join the girl scouts was because I learned I couldn't join the boy scouts in fact. That was when I was about in first grade or kindergarten because all of my close friends were boys and I wanted to do what they were doing."

They won't want to join because biologically it's an organization that's extremely masculine, some girls may join but the boys will end up getting distracted by the girls and forget about the rewards and merits. Diversity does not work in boy scouts.
Arganger

Con

I have no problem whatsoever with boys joining the girl scouts. I do however have memory problems and cognitive dysfunction that may have caused me to not notice it.

I showed you what the BSA has as the official statement of what it is about, I think that is a little more accurate of a sorce.

It is extremely unlikely that any girls would share tents with guys. Also, this isn't exactly the only case of boys and girls camping together. Some schools have educational camping trips for instance, and those are always co-ed. Summer camps are another example of that. Honestly if someone can study and behave around girls, then I bet they can manage.

To be a leader you have to learn to manage many kinds of people including the opposite sex. Though you keep saying that "
the kind of stuff they do works best in a single-gender group" you are failing to explain why.

It says "Boy Scouts" which can easily be seen as designed around boys, not just the idea of for boys only. I'm not saying that boy scouts should reimagine itself just to satisfy the girls, but rather that girls who like it as is shouldn't be refused.

Not all children have parental support at all, or near enough to change an organization. Not to mention many parents are very busy and simply don't have the time.

Becoming a cadet still isn't the same thing, the biggest differences being the age range and the fact that being a cadet ties into school and may not be in the best interest of the individual for a long term job or goal.

The quote means that there is more to something than a name. I was meaning that you get to caught up on the word "boy" in "boy scouts"

This won't destroy the boy scouts, infact it is doubtful all that many girls will even want in. Only a handful have tried to. The troop that this girl unoffcally belonged to didn't seem to care, and when I asked my brother if he cared he said, "Not really, I mean the girl scouts sucks"

https://www.npr.org...

I actively watched those channels for a while I mean, and while they talk about many legitimate issues they just as feminists fall victim to in group out group and confirmation bias.

One last thing to add that I sadly haddent thought about, is
when the idea of girl vs boy gets gray. The title of this debate is, "The boy scouts should only allow boys" but intersex exists as well. Like Androgen insensitivity syndrome, Gonadal Dysgenesis, Turner syndrome and Klinefelter syndrome.

In other words not everyone falls under the category of male or female.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Arganger 3 days ago
Arganger
@BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2

No
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 3 days ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
@Arganger can you please vote for me in this debate because I have proven the theory, while con failed to refute my final argument in the final round, just for example.

Link: http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Youngastronomer 4 days ago
Youngastronomer
True
Posted by Minddagger 5 days ago
Minddagger
alright, Girl scouts are for girls, boy scouts are for boys, EQUALITY, DEAL WITH IT
No votes have been placed for this debate.