The Instigator
gahbage
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
LR4N6FTW4EVA
Con (against)
Winning
30 Points

The chicken came before the egg.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/29/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,857 times Debate No: 3844
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (11)

 

gahbage

Pro

I thank my opponent for joining this debate. And I hope his head doesn't hurt that much XD

My argument is the chicken came first. The egg had to come from a chicken. Eggs don't just grow on trees.

Now, the con side will obviously state the chicken had to come from an egg. However, in the Bible, God created all animals of the land on the sixth day. God did not create eggs, but chickens. If he created an egg, it wouldn't hatch because it wouldn't be in the ideal environment.

If you don't believe what the Bible says, there's also the fact that organisms became more complicated (evolution). Once the right combination of molecules/DNA/aminos are combined, the chicken is formed. Not an egg.
LR4N6FTW4EVA

Con

My opponent should be thanked for picking such a creative topic to debate. Now to prove him wrong.

As an overview, if the chicken came first where did it come from? An egg. That's right, the first chicken never could have been born had it not been for that egg it hatched from. Where did the egg come from you may ask? An ancestor of the first chicken. The egg would be a chicken egg because it contained a chicken.

Biblical argument: "If he created an egg, it wouldn't hatch because it wouldn't be in the ideal environment." God is believed to be all-powerful. Claiming that an egg wouldn't hatch is not valid. God, if he wanted to, could make an egg hatch. I am not claiming that He did for sure, but that the Holy Bible cannot disprove my argument.

Evolutionary Argument: "there's also the fact that organisms became more complicated (evolution). Once the right combination of molecules/DNA/aminos are combined, the chicken is formed. Not an egg." This is not true. Where did the chicken come from? A prehistoric ancestor of the chicken, that lays eggs. The first chicken would have come from an egg laid by its mother, who was not a chicken, but the egg would be a chicken egg because it contains a chicken. When a chicken is developing it develops in an egg, so the first chicken developed in the first egg. The egg had to come first, as that is what happens with all chickens today.
Debate Round No. 1
gahbage

Pro

I thank my opponent for a good challenge.

Biblical Argument: Obviously God didn't make a bunch of eggs and whatnot when He created the animals. He made chickens out of thin air and stuff. (Wow, I sound like I know what I'm talking about.) You get my point. But as you said, I guess the Holy Bible can't counter your argument, so I'll leave it at that.

Evolutionary Argument: Natural selection goes back to the different finches of the same species that Darwin found on the Galapagos Islands. These finches had slight differences in appearance because of the conditions they lived in. Some finches had long beaks to pick out berries, some had large beaks to crack nuts, etc. Now, when the finches got separated between the islands, their appearance gradually changed to suit what they were doing. They were not just suddenly born with the adaptations they needed. They were developed slowly over time.

The same goes for chickens: an ancestor of the chicken did not just have an egg and it became a chicken. The ancestors gradually changed over time into modern-day chickens.
LR4N6FTW4EVA

Con

First, my opponent conceded the biblical argument. So I win that point.

Next, although the chicken did evolve gradually, the first modern chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus) had to evolve from another species (The Red Junglefowl [Wikipedia]). This was not a modern day chicken, but something very close.
Debate Round No. 2
gahbage

Pro

Beef N' Go is really neat
it's the best food that you'll ever eat!

vote pro, I have refuted all my opponent's arguments.
LR4N6FTW4EVA

Con

By not refuting my round two arguments PRO has tacitly agreed to them. Therefore, he agrees that the egg laid by that Jungle Fowl was indeed the first egg, before the first chicken.

Second, his claim that he refuted my points is false.
Vote CON!
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 9 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
Thank you for your very constructive and logical criticism. I see that you are very mature and wise yourself.
Posted by TMac 9 years ago
TMac
All i have to say is that both of these ppl should not be allowed to debate ever again. The opening argument brought "the bible" into the equation which, the last time I checked, is faith NOT fact. Then the rebuttal attempts to argue that egg type is determined by the contents of the egg not by the organism which it came from. does anyone else think that is retarded? I wish i could have debated this because i could have typed out of my a$$ and made more sense then these 2. I only hope that they are 9 yrs old and have been home schooled by white trash nannies all their lives because if that were the case then its not their fault
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
Yeah, guess I'm just not a fan of a debate where the conflict HAS to be on one specific point like that. And I don't like arguing definitions. So I guess what I should have said is, it's not my kind of debate.

Also, just to argue against you, I'd have to argue that what kind of egg it is is decided not only by the shell, but by the contents. If the contents are a growing panda, then it can't be an ostrich egg. At this point, it becomes a a 'content of the egg doesn't matter' vs. 'content of the egg does matter' debate.

Then of course you could argue that we make scrambled eggs from chicken eggs, but they don't have a growing chicken in them. However, this is using your conclusion as a premise, as would almost any argument for 'content of the egg shouldn't matter.' Who's to say that I make scrambled eggs with a chicken egg? It may have come from a chicken, but that doesn't make it a chicken egg.

And then we have both sides debating based on just assuming they're correct. In my mind, this is how most definition arguments end.
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
Not exactly, I could argue that it makes more sense for the definition of a chicken egg to be something that came from a chicken on several contentions.

Take the Jurassic Park movie for example. In Jurassic Park, one took an ostridge egg, used them for hatching dinosaurs. does the ostridge egg now change from an ostridge egg to a dinosaur egg simply because it will now hatch a dinosaur instead of a ostridge? The egg is still the same exact size, shape, and texture.

Lets just say for arguments sake that one can genetically engineer a panda bear to grow in and hatch from a ostridge egg, does that make it an Panda Bear egg??? It's still an ostridge egg.

Of course I'm just thinking aloud here, and my arguments probably have holes in them. The point is, one cam debate what definition makes more sense.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
While it wouldn't be as clear cut as this resolution, it would still suck. It would just be an argument over what a "chicken egg" is. It couldn't really go anywhere else. No one could really 'outsmart' their opponent either, it would just be an exchange of differing definitions.

tl;dr:
Chickens and eggs are bad for debating.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
Couldn't have put it better myself Bitz. Clear as a bell.
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
So the egg came first.

A better debate resolution would be "The chicken came before the chicken egg"
Posted by Bitz 9 years ago
Bitz
Actually, it all depends on how you define "chicken egg"

If you define "chicken egg" to be an egg that came from a chicken, then according to evolution, the chicken came first.

If you define a "chicken egg" to be an egg that will hatch a chicken, than according to evolution, the egg came first.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
I don't know why CON argued that the first chicken was born from the first egg. The first egg came from the first egg-laying creatures, and this egg decidedly did not contain a chicken.

Also, this would allow for a much better argument against the biblical account, since fish were created before birds (as far as I remember).
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
I LOVE SMOSH!!!!!

Beef n' go!
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by gahbage 8 years ago
gahbage
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Issa 9 years ago
Issa
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Bnesiba 9 years ago
Bnesiba
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by bexy_kelly 9 years ago
bexy_kelly
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by josh_42 9 years ago
josh_42
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Noblethe3rd 9 years ago
Noblethe3rd
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Crust89 9 years ago
Crust89
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Spiral 9 years ago
Spiral
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
gahbageLR4N6FTW4EVATied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03