The Instigator
spiderman12345
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Buckethead31594
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

The chicken came before the egg

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Buckethead31594
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 757 times Debate No: 44358
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (4)

 

spiderman12345

Pro

The chicken came before the egg it has been showed that the chicken came before the egg. I will state my argument next round but my opponent goes
Buckethead31594

Con

I accept and wish the best of luck to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 1
spiderman12345

Pro

Well heres my argument
We all know some people who are religious like me think God made everything and the animals even if your not religious you may think the big bang theory created the world. As stated the Earth was created and animals were in the Earth like also other living things. If the Earth was born with eggs who would take care of the eggs? If no one takes care of the egg how will there be chicken? Of course and if eggs did come first there would be no chicken. The Earth was created with living things and all living things came on Earths creation
- People
- ANIMALS
-plant life
and more

You cannot prove that the egg came first because there wasn't eggs all over the floor when Earth was made
You cannot not also think just because chickens lay from eggs the egg came first. Of course a egg needs warmth from the mother egg and the eggs need to be reproduced. How will eggs reproduce? Of course the Earth must be created with a living being and that being must give reproduction to give birth. Chickens must reproduce to make a egg the Earth cannot make eggs it can only make living beings. And a egg is not a living being until it has hatched. And the only way to hatch it is by giving it warmth and if the older versions of chickens did not come out how will there be chickens how will the chickens reproduce? Of course chickens made the eggs. So heres an example to back my stuff up. What if the Earth was created by God or the Big bang theory and as stated in the bible God created living animals and humans and also other living species. This shows that eggs are not living until they grow to become a chick and basically as I said in the example God made living things and a egg is not living so proof egg did not come first. The creation of the Earth was born with living things not unliving things like eggs
Buckethead31594

Con

I appreciate my opponent's use of logic, but unfortunately there is no real way to prove which came first, for two reasons:

1. We would have to travel back into time
2. By nature it is circular logic

Also, I am unable "disprove" my opponent's arguments, merely because they are all opinions. For one, we would have to assume that God exists and that he created animals. Since I am against this proposition, allow me to contribute logic that is scientifically accredited[1].

There is, however, counterlogic to explain how the egg could have come before the chicken. Robert Krulwich explains: Basically, many, many years ago there was a chicken-like bird. It was genetically close to a chicken, but wasn't a chicken. Krulwich calls it a proto-chicken. So proto-hen laid an egg, and proto-rooster fertilized it. But when the genes from the mother and father almost fused into another proto-chicken, they combined in a way, creating a mutation that accidently made the offspring different from its parents. Although it would take millenia for the difference to be noticed, that egg was different enough to become the official progenitor of a new species- known as the chicken. Two birds that weren't really chickens ceated a chicken egg, and hence, we have our answer: The egg came first, and then it hatched into a chicken[2].

On to Pro.










[1] www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/02/11/171706769/the-egg-makes-its-move-in-a-new-version-of-which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-e?utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook&ut

[2] www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/finally-answered-which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg

Debate Round No. 2
spiderman12345

Pro

spiderman12345 forfeited this round.
Buckethead31594

Con

My opponent has forfeited. Extend arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
spiderman12345

Pro

I would like to thank pro for his argument. This is what I would like to point out that you have misunderstood my argument
Sorry for the forfeit I was away from my computer
Most of my points were not opinions. A opinion is something that you think what I have placed is the actual evidence on how the chicken could come before the egg. And also another way you misunderstood is that you thought I was only talking about religion when I also stated the big bang theory.

Also there has been many theories on how the egg came first. A theory can be disproven. The chicken comes first.
Buckethead31594

Con

I thank my opponent for promptly posting his response.

Unfortunately, the true definition of "opinion" could be considered "a believe, judgment, or way of thinking about something[1]." Regardless of whether or not my opponent claims his 'evidence' is scientifically-based, he has given absolutely no sources whatsoever to support his contentions. Based on the definition of "opinion," and his lack of sources, I have no reason but to conclude that his arguments are opinions.



"Also there has been many theories on how the egg came first. A theory can be disproven. The chicken comes first."

My opponent has yet to pick apart my arguments which negate this contention; furthermore, he has not stated credible evidence as to why "the chicken comes first."


On to Pro.







[1] The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Debate Round No. 4
spiderman12345

Pro

I will give you evidence

http://news.cnet.com...
http://gizmodo.com...
http://theweek.com...

There not all a opinion here is the facts to back em up. Also a opinion is what you think and is what you judge. I have listed facts and that's the research.
Buckethead31594

Con

I appreciate that my opponent has finally supplied sources. It is a shame that these sources weren't posted earlier in the debate. As of now, I am forced to introduce new arguments in the last round- arguments that will go unresolved.

My opponent contends that there is a protein which is used for the creation of eggs that can only be found in chickens. This protein is called ovocleidin-17, and although it may seem convincing at first, this is simply not true.

Professor Mark Rodger and Dr. David Quigley, from the University of Warwick, who helped develop a recent study with colleagues from Sheffield University, pointed out that in fact, ovocleidin-17, which helps in the formation of the egg's hard shell, actually comes both before and after the egg shell[1].

The evidence does not end there. Scientist, Roy A. Sorensen, argued that although it is indeterminate which animal was the first chicken, the question of whether the chicken or the chicken egg came first has a determinate answer. Since an animal does not evolve into another species during its lifetime, and since organisms can fail to breed true, it is biologically necessary that the egg came first[2].

Furthermore, Biologists such as PZ Myers have pointed out a further flaw in the 'protein-argument', in that other birds make use of different kinds of proteins for producing eggs, and that the evolution of ovocleidin-17 was not coincident with the evolution of eggs; ovocleidin developed from prior proteins, which were used to form eggs since before birds branched away evolutionarily from reptiles[3],[4].


I have nothing further to add. I thank my opponent for their time, and for kindly addressing their concerns.

Although this debate has gone unresolved- as Con, I hereby negate the resolution. The chicken did not come before the egg.


Thank you.











[1] http://www2.warwick.ac.uk...
[2] Roy A. Sorensen. 1992. The Egg came before the chicken. Oxford University Press.
[3] http://scienceblogs.com...
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by bro20 2 years ago
bro20
i say chicken. this is well all started off as a single bacteria cell. this developed into fish and dinosours. dinosours developed into sky creatures, and sky creautres developed into birds. the bird got a name as we know it today'chicken'.
Posted by bro20 2 years ago
bro20
i say chicken. this is well all started off as a single bacteria cell. this developed into fish and dinosours. dinosours developed into sky creatures, and sky creautres developed into birds. the bird got a name as we know it today'chicken'.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Josh_b 2 years ago
Josh_b
spiderman12345Buckethead31594Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: I'm feeling kind of lazy in voting, but you can tell that Con is the winner because of his higher vocabulary and complete representation of thought process. I agree that if any egg laying species was alive before the chicken, the egg came first. I also concede that chickens are much smaller than they were 100 years ago which could possibly render the chickens of today, not chickens but an entirely new species altogether.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
spiderman12345Buckethead31594Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: A clean sweep for Con. Conduct for the forfeits. S&G for Con's generally well-done S&G, in contrast to Con's many, MANY errors. Arguments because Con actually presented and supported an entire case...and pointed out that Pro did not present anything but assertion. Pro, as to your last round: just listing sources is not an argument. You have to make your OWN argument, not just copy-paste links. As to sources, Con had more, and more reliable, sources that were used to back up an actual argument. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.
Vote Placed by GarretKadeDupre 2 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
spiderman12345Buckethead31594Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro started off the debate by using the phrase "has been showed", LOL. So Con gets s&g points. Pro also completely neglected to use punctuation at times. Con used sources to back up his arguments; Pro just spammed sources without showing their relevance to his arguments. Also, Con used scientific evidence, while Pro relied on opinions.
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
Krazzy_Player
spiderman12345Buckethead31594Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Although it is hard to come to an conclusion whether the Egg or Chicken were the first, Con made sound arguments with the help of research conducted by various scientists. Conduct points as Pro forfeited one round.