The Instigator
Fanny
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
donald.keller
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

The concept of "teen pregnancy" needs to be abandoned

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
donald.keller
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/22/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,964 times Debate No: 36947
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

Fanny

Pro

Teen pregnancy can be a good thing. Long-term studies by Duke economist V. Joseph Hotz and colleagues, found that by age 35, former teen moms had earned more in income, paid more in taxes, were substantially less likely to live in poverty and collected less in public assistance than similarly poor women who waited until their 20s to have babies. Women who became mothers in their teens were freed from child-raising duties by their late 20s and early 30s so they went to pursue employment while poorer women who waited to become moms were still stuck at home watching their young children and were more likely to collect welfare. Also, because poorer groups tend to die younger, having babies early in life may ensure that grandparents and extended family members will be alive and healthy enough to help raise children.

The real problem is our own attitude to teen pregnancy and teen sex, and also we only get one side of the picture. The concept of "teen pregnancy" needs to be abandoned because it's stigmatizing, prejudicial and counterproductive.
donald.keller

Con

1: Poverty

Pro talks about how Poverty isn't an issue, and that Teen Mothers actually end up growing to up earn "more in income, paid more in taxes, were substantially less likely to live in poverty and collected less in public assistance than similarly poor women who waited until their 20s to have babies." Pro has cherry picked numbers, comparing his numbers to women who were already poor.

When we compare them to other women, we find his claim doesn't stand up to statistics.


Research shows that around 66% of all teen mothers end up in poverty.(1) This is much higher than the 13.8% of women who end up living in poverty in the United States.(2)

We also find that around 25% of teen moms end up going on Welfare within 3 yeras.(1)


[1] http://www.thenationalcampaign.org...
[2] http://www.americanprogress.org...
[]

2: Education

Only 32% of Teen Mothers complete High School before entering their late 20's compared to 73% of average women who didn't have kids.(3) Of the 68% of Teen Mother's who didn't graduated by then, few graduated at all.

Only 51% (half) of all Teen Mothers ever got a Diploma from High School. compared to 89% of woman who waited to have children.(4) 30% of women who Dropped out of school did so primarily because of childbirth. 9% of Teen moms got a GED, and the last 40% of Teen moms never graduated.(5)

[3] http://www.moappp.org...
[4] http://www.thenationalcampaign.org...
[5] http://motherhood.modernmom.com...
[]

3: Employment

With the high number of Teen Mom drop outs, this leaves employment for Teen Mom's well below that of average women. The women who do manage a job will, for most their parenting career only earn $19,169 on average(6), well below the average income of other women, who earn $36,931 a year average.(7)

Pro talks about all the motherhood issues that harm Mothers who waited until they were 20+, but pretends these issues only affect that group, and acts as though Teen Mother's are immune to these problems. They are actually hit much worse.

Teen Mother's can't juggle child care with school and a job. They must either give up the job, or the education... Both hurt them even long after the Child has left. Teens who don't get pregnant can attend school and a job. This helps set them up financially before moving out on their own, grants them great work experience, and a diploma + education.

[6] http://www.moappp.org...
[7] http://www.catalyst.org...;

4: Rebuttals

I have handled all but Pro's last stance:

"The real problem is our own attitude to teen pregnancy and teen sex, and also we only get one side of the picture. The concept of "teen pregnancy" needs to be abandoned because it's stigmatizing, prejudicial and counterproductive."

To start, what two sides are there? There is the Teen Pregnancy side and no other in this picture.

Pro is confused. His idea of andandoning the idea of Teen Pregnancy is counter-productive. Continuing to acknowledge that Teen Pregnancy is a real issue is the first step to being Productive. Acknowledging a problem is also far from Prejudice. Truth can not be Prejudice.

Teen Pregnancy and Teen Sex leads to many issues during and after raising the child. Abandoning the concept of Teen Pregnancy would be similiar to if we had abandoned the idea that Black People were treated poorly in the 50's. You think you abolish the issue, but you simply ignore it while it grows.

Teen Pregnancy leads to many problems, and costs the Government $10.9 billion in tax dollars each year in Welfare and Aide.(8) Making Teen Pregnancy appear to not be bad would only promote it (especially if we follow Pro's idea) and send US Teen Pregnancy rates higher. We would likely see the Government Spending to Teen Mother increade to $20 billion+ in no more than a few years.

[8] http://www.thenationalcampaign.org...
[]

Con's case simply does not match the Evidence and Statistics.
Debate Round No. 1
Fanny

Pro

Before the industrial revolution, people got married and had full adult rights upon puberty. During the industrial revolution, efforts were made to stop young people from working in dangerous factories and do "educate" young people. Since then, restrictions on young people had been gradually increasing. They can't make healthcare decisions, even when they have the mental ability to decide for themselves. They can't get a job without a parent's permission and permission from the state based on a medical exam, they can't leave their home without their parent's permission or they will be considered a "runaway" and cops will arrest them, bring them home and put them in juvenile justice and anything they buy, even with their own money, can be taken from them by their parents at any time for any reason. That is OWNERSHIP. "Teen" is a very recent concept and also needs to be abolished and along with that the concept of "teenage pregnancy" should be abolished.
donald.keller

Con

Pro has dropped all of his Round 1 arguments:
Pro has failed to make a case defending his Round 1 arguments.

Pro has failed to address each of my Arguments:
Pro has failed to make a rebuttal against any of my Round 1 arguments.

Pro's entire Round 2 argument is Irrelevant:
Pro's entire Round 2 argument is irrelevant and does not address the Resolution.

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1: Industrial Revolution.

Despite how much we (especially teenagers) like to glorify and worship ourselves, and we expect the law to too, we are stupid.

Especially teenagers.(1) It's not hard to abuse the intelligence of a teenager. This is why laws are in place to protect teenagers from people, like businessmen and greedy adults. Teenagers in the Industrial Revolution weren't free... They were enslaved to corporate leaders who owned them.(2) They were also paid pennies for every dollar an Adult was paid. Don't think that, by any means, they were treated equal to adults.

They also didn't work because they were adults and they wanted the freedom to work... They were forced to work by parents and society. They didn't have a choice, they didn't want to work. They were enslaved to their parent and to their Place of Work.



The problem with letting them make healthcare decisions and other such decisions is that they can't. Pro brings up that teenagers can't make decision even when they have the mental ability too, but he fails to understand that they simply don't have the prior mentioned mental ability. Teenagers do not, despite what they want to think, have the developed brain needed to make life-changing decisions.

[1] http://www.nimh.nih.gov...
[2] http://www2.needham.k12.ma.us...
[]

2: Ownership?

Pro has drastically confused being a Slave with being a Dependent.

Slave: Noun
A man who is by law deprived of his liberty for life, and becomes the property of another.(3)

Dependent: Noun
A dependent is someone who is sustained by another person, such as a child supported by his or her parents.(4)

A legal Dependent like a child depends on many things from their parents, including having rules and restrictions applied to them that keep them safe, from others and from themselves. A teenager's greatest enemy is himself.

[3] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...
[4] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...
[]

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The concept of being a 'Teen' was legally adopted for a reason. It was adapted by Government and adults to separate 13-18 year olds from everyone else. This group of people are mature enough to have to act like adults, but not mature enough to actually be adults.

One problem with Pro's argument is that while the concept was adopted by Government and adults, it was in fact created by teenagers of the time.

"In short, it soon became apparent that a new stage of life — the TEENAGE phase — was becoming a reality in America. American adolescents were displaying traits unknown among children and adults. Although the word teenager did not come into use until decades later, the teenage mindset dawned in the 1920s."(5)

The word may have been adopted by adults, and rules and restrictions were made to accommodate the half-child half-adult teenager, the mindset and actions that invented the concept came strictly from the minds of teenagers. It was made by teenagers, and Adults and Government simply adapted to accommodate it.

[5] http://www.ushistory.org...
[]

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Pro has simply not Addressed my Rebuttal or defended his case. He brought up irrelevant points about how bad the laws protecting teenagers are.

He hasn't made a new case for why Teen Pregnancy is a good thing, and only brought up obviously bias opinions about teenage life.
Debate Round No. 2
Fanny

Pro

Fanny forfeited this round.
donald.keller

Con

Arguments go unchallenged.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by STALIN 3 years ago
STALIN
Da ia govoryu po ruski.
Posted by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
*Note... I meant Pro's case at the end lol
Posted by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
There it is.
Posted by Fanny 3 years ago
Fanny
It's tomorrow. Where is your comment?
Posted by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
I'll be posting tomorrow :)
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 3 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
Fannydonald.kellerTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: F.F.
Vote Placed by Dragonfang 3 years ago
Dragonfang
Fannydonald.kellerTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF + Conceding arguments.