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The current world economic design

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/27/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 623 times Debate No: 44731
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I will be honest. I really did not know what to call this debate. My position will be that we need a worldwide revolution of sorts. When I think about our economic system, political system, legal system, health care system, education system, religion or government... I see corruption, greed, oppression,manipulation, segregation, abuse.. Basically it is not something that deserves to exist. We need a complete overhaul of the system. Its so obvious it is painful! Like watching someone use the drug Krokadil. I see ignorance colliding in battle for nothing! I see a belligerent disregard for the safety and well being of our fellow humans, over old traditions that need to die! I will focus on the economy to make this debate easier.

The Economic system
The global economic system is quite possibly the poison that causes most atrocities! The system is designed with one Huge flaw: It does not adhere to basic ethical principals. Despite it being said by a science fiction character "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"-Spock
If you let yourself be fooled that there is such thing as "the elite" You have fallen for the most despicable trick in the book! The class system is an illusion fueled by the ignorance of the peasants who gladly fall into servitude. We are so many but so void of seeing the most obvious device in the elite's toolbox: Deception. They told you were nothing and you play along! Want proof.. look at how corporation some how managed to gain a foothold in how humans spend their entire existence! That's right.. We are wasting our time on tedious banalities that creates the "work force" of today! Do you really need to spend 1/3rd of you live a servant while 1/3 of life asleep, 1/3 stressing about your meaningless job? If you need me to answer for you: HECK NO!!! That is just the system that has been designed and ingrained into our heritage! Still a big fat lie!

I will point out some extreme flaws in the economic system. I will give a few examples and try to elaborate to make my point clear. We can discuss any topic you want.

1.It is appalling to me that starving children actually exist. How did we let that happen. One of the most important ethical standard is: Protect the women and the children" Commercials asking for 15 cents a day is a bandaid to the actual problem: The callous nature of the economic design! Plus giving money would be ironic, since it would be using that same system that actually creates the need for you to send money! Like asking the ocean to save you from the waves!

2.Evil thrives on this ridiculous concept of money: Terrorist organizations, criminal organizations, human trafficking, prostitution, pornography, drug dealing, robbery, theft...etc How many people have been killed over money? Too many to count. The sad thing is it is more profitable to prey on others..and we are the enablers. Its just filthy paper with a shared illusion of value, yet is the catalyst for a good portion of evil that exist in the world! It is in dire need of scrutiny. Being wealthy should be shameful not "the American dream" because criminals are living that dream.. not you!

3.The have not's: You know how people are dangerous and unpredictable when desperate? It is actually in your best interest to not live so comfortably while others are starving.. they might just take what you have. Or be driven to commit heinous acts! Finally, once they have been convicted YOU pay for them to be in prison. I'm not saying I have all the solutions but I know this is not right!

4.The design has turned against its designer: Isn't the economy failing? That's what we are told. Isn't the economy just an agreement among men? How could we let this get so corrupt? How do I stop feeling as though it is my fault (Everyone's fault)? It is.. I allow it.. I feed it every day. This monster.. I want it dead! But it would take everyone to defeat it.. So we will be devoured by our creation. (Sorry to take this into a poetic direction) Bottom line is we made our bed.. then took a huge dump under the sheets.. now we have to sleep in it! (I'm proud of that analogy)

5. Death by corporation: Thank you wall mart and Amazon for putting so many people out of business. I am very happy that so few prosper while the majority suffer... Great job everyone.. Take a bow! So glad my father could not keep his vacuum cleaner store. How could he.. you can buy a disposable vacuum that will only last a year at wally world. Shocking revelation: The vacuum cleaner you just bought. It drives dirt into your carpet giving the illusion of clean.. Just thought you should know why you have been misinformed about carpet care! I went off on a rant to show a personal side to this. Now I'm not saying my dad is a prodigy when it comes to business, I am just saying that when we settle on convenience over educated decisions.. someone will likely be a victim to corporation!

6. Family system: So you have a few kids. But you are doing o.k. because you work your but off so they can have comfortable lives.. But there is just one thing missing: Daddy! The perpetual obsession with consumerism and capitalism has taken away something far more important than living in excess! It is the nature of humans to find themselves taking almost everything for granted! You forget why you are even working because it is now just a part of you. It will take you from your family even when you are sitting right next to them. It is why girl's will have daddy issues and boy's will be disrespectful to their mom's. This is just one example I could elaborate later!

7. Am I wrong: Tell me (aside from my colorful arguments) That I should not be concerned. It all just feels wrong. It feels like we are "following the leader" right off a cliff! I'm not talking about Obama here. He is no more at fault than anyone who condones such belligerent economic inequality. Its ridiculous to me that its not even considered conspiracy.. This whole thing is corrupt. It waves it in our face taunting us without fear of our retaliation. I sir am no push over and my nice guy demeanor is getting harder for me to maintain! Why do I feel like I'm the smartest person alive? (I know that I am not) Tell me I am just paranoid.. but make sure you explain why!


First I wish to sum up your viewpoint as I understand it so that we are both on the same page. I will then express my opinion and rebut each of your points in regard to your argument. I will then summarize my own point of view.

Your argument is to blame a number of things on the"world economic system" and claim that we need a "revolution of sorts". Though you do not give us any solutions other than "revolution", I am confident you will enlighten us more with details as the debate progresses.

It isn't that I don't agree there are problems but your solution of "revolution of some sort" is very vague and the reason I am rather against that idea can be summed up with the oft repeated phrase: "been there, done that".

That is, in the 20th century numerous revolutions were supposed to solve the same problems you present: to protect the poor, the starving, and the working man. These revolutions created economic systems that caused huge shortages in basic goods which led starvation and large scale famine. It also ushered in an era of Totalitarianism.

So let us go through each of your points and I'll comment.

Point 1: Starving children (and adults) exists.
Yes. The Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the UN reports that in developed regions it is less than 5%. In developing regions it is (on average) 14.3% (see pg 8 of FAO report ). Note however this is an average and is misleading. Areas such as Sub-Saharan Africa are much worse at approximately 25%.

So instead of revolution, let"s look at areas where hunger has been reduced in the past 20 years and see if we can learn some lessons. I choose Bangladesh because Unicef says "The prevalence of malnutrition in Bangladesh is among the highest in the world." Unicef goes onto say: "Although Bangladesh has made good progress in the past decade to achieve MDG 1". (see pg 1 ).

How good is the progress? The FAO report that unlike many countries Bangladesh has met the MDG1 goals. On pg 29: "This remarkable feat was achieved in the context of rapid economic growth in the 1990s spurred by significant growth in agricultural productivity and driven by a combination of factors including macroeconomic stability, liberalization of input markets and opening up of the economy".

An opening up of the economy and input markets? What does that mean? Well Wikipedia explains: "Bangladesh has seen a dramatic increase in foreign direct investment. In order to enhance economic growth, the government set up several export processing zones to attract foreign investment. "

So it appears that by actually joining the "world economy", Bangladesh has seen a significant reduction in both poverty and hunger. But didn"t you state this "world economic system" was the cause of world hunger?

Now this is just one example. What about other countries that have seen improvements?
Well look at the FAO report. They give various case studies of countries that improved such as Ghana (pg 31) which they say was due to ""market reforms, favourable terms of trade and a good investment climate". And then there is Nicaragua (pg 35) which they attribute to ""increased access to new international markets through participation in the Central America Free Trade Agreement".

Increased access to international markets? But isn't that contrary to what you seem to believe?

Now perform the following "thought experiment". Just ask yourself this question: what would the likely effect on North Korea"s population be if it dropped Communism, formed a democracy, and started trading with the rest of the world? Would North Koreans suffer more than they already do or less? I can only imagine that within a decade North Koreans would be much better off.

Point 2: Evil thrives on this ridiculous concept of money.

First I am going to assume when you say money you mean paper currency and/or coinage since you later called it "filthy paper with a shared illusion of value".

My question to you: is it really money people do evil for, or is it power that people do evil for; and money just happens to be an abstraction or means to that power?

One way to answer that question is to look at cultures that existed before they had paper/coin currency and ask yourself if the evil things you mention took place. So let's look at the Ancient Egyptians as an example for they didn't use any form of coinage until the 26th dynasty (approximately 500 BC - ). Since the Early Dynastic period starts around 3600BC we have about 3000 years of civilization to look at with no concept of money/coinage; just a good old fashioned barter system of "useful things" such as wheat, oils, food, etc"

So did the Egyptians between 3600BC and 500BC have the problems you blame on money such as war, prostitution, robbery?? Answer: Yes and tons of it. I am sorry to say friend that the evils you mention predate paper money & coins by at least 3000 years and probably a good deal more. And I am sorry to say that even if you eradicated money altogether that greed and hunger for power will still exist in the hearts of those who lack a moral compass.

Point 3: The have nots.
Well we"ve seen what has happened when "have nots" have risen up against the have"s. From the French & Russian Revolutions to China"s Civil War, the end results were putting people in power who were worse towards the poor than those before.

Look no further than Mao"s "Great Leap Forward" where 42 million people died of famine because of a misguided belief in command economies ( ) . That's approximately seven (7) times the number of Jewish people who died in the Holocaust! This was Mao"s crowning achievement of his "revolution".

Point 4: The design has turned against its designer: Isn't the economy failing?

Answer: No. The economy is certainly "correcting" itself and yes people are hurting. We've seen bad times before and we will certainly see it again.
They are hurting in places like Greece much more than here for a large number of reasons. Like you, some in Greece have called for revolution.

Out of desperation for change and "revolution" we've seen the rise of the Golden Dawn, Greece's version of the NAZI party. In their manifesto they say their members "constantly serves the eternal revolutionary principles of the nationalist worldview, with the ultimate goal of forming a new society and a new type of man." See

Golden Dawn"s manifesto also states "Money is a mean of necessity, not a governing principle of life or the purpose of it. The ultimate goal of the social state is the elimination of tiered false-value of money and the controlled use of it as a trading mean."

As you can see they seem to believe man needs to change, they need revolution, and must control the "evils of money". Does this sound vaguely familiar? It is how they play on people who are desperate. Don't be one of those desparate people.

Point 5: Death by corporation: Thank you wall mart and Amazon for putting so many people out of business.

I am confused Amazon and Walmart have nothing to do with things such as world hunger and war. Amazon"s success is because it has a better business model. People were upset over Borders putting small books stores out of business. Today, many small book stores still exist but where is Borders? I own a small business and if I go under, I blame me.

Point 6: Family system: one thing missing: Daddy!

While this is a problem in many countries, not just here, I hardly think this calls for a revolution to solve, do you?

Point 7: Am I wrong: Tell me (aside from my colorful arguments) That I should not be concerned.

No be concerned but participate in democracy, not revolution.
Debate Round No. 1


Though you do not give us any solutions other than "revolution"-pro

You are right. I did not come with solutions. I wanted someone to tell me I was wrong or just paranoid! I will however let you know that my lack of solutions is due to the fact that I have a problem with the design at its core. So requesting that everyone stop what there doing and focus on my revolution seems pretty far fetched. That is why I try not to claim that I have all of the answers.. just lots of questions! Unfortunately revolutions in the past were just chipping away at the actual problem that is why I was being ambiguous about my belief that we need a revolution.

The first issue I have is that the design itself is wrong. My proof is how far we could be compared to where we are.. Knowing that the kind of change I want to see would either take longer than my lifetime or would require some sort of rebirth through fire. (the latter sounds frightening) Its pretty simple to me. The system is designed with an inherent flaw.. one that has been publicly discovered several times including the movies A Beautiful mind and In Time.. Not too mention endless literature that has illuminated the blatant inequalities! This is not a secret or a conspiracy.. it is the design.. Instead of the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, we have a system where the majority of resources go to a small select few while you have some people who have nothing! We know it as the 1%. In Russia it is the .01%.. to name only a few examples, we know this is the same throughout the earth! RED FLAG!! We call this our American dream.. but so few are living it.

Again this is just one of many designs that could be implemented. It is the same design we have had since the beginning of civilization.. If you know your history.. you see the same extreme imbalance. What people still have not realized is that it is only an agreement.. We, the common people, have been agreeing to this injustice for hundreds of years. I'm sure you can imagine what would happen if we all came to that realization. "You meant that we are all equal? That's not what I have been told"! I'm not going to even bring up "old money" because I will not be able to keep my cool!

O.K. I'm at a loss so I'm going to give you a solution: How can we reinvent the system so everyone gets what they want.. I'm pretty sure you can't.. the reason: We are all self absorbed and our desires are mostly unnecessary and just a part of the current design. So everyone that wants to keep Na scar, NFL, Movies and music.. I'm all for it but lets be realistic here.. If you are a performance artist or professional athlete and you were told that you were still equal to everyone else and should get the same pay as say; a construction worker. You would flip out.. but here's what they don't tell you.. THEY ARE EQUAL. If they do not want to keep acting or playing with a ball.. then don't! That is greed in its essence. Not only are they doing what they love but they have to get paid more than an entire school full of teachers to do it.. Horrible ethics.. horrible design! I know I'm going to get a lot of grief for my "solutions" but I'm just trying to tell you what's in my way.

I remember mentioning in my opening post that "We will be devoured by our creation" I strongly believe this to be true. I strongly believe change will only come from destruction and devastation! The levee will break.. it will I'm just trying to tell everyone that I see it! I know I sound like I'm a paranoid nut (I truly hope I am) but the problem is not in America or the middle east. The problem is world wide. I'm going to give you a little insight as to why I'm concerned about the entire world and not just my own little corner of it! I have EMPATHY. To some empathy only extends so far (To family/Friends, to your town/state.. or maybe even your country but rarely do I see it reach past the oceans! I'm sure you feel bad when you see the commercials about starving children in Africa but you can easily forget them in your distracting lives. Its not your fault.. but it is. As an enabler to the callous system that does not empathize for children (adults) The system is working according to its design. It is not failing. It is just failing us! Imagine money like its water in our atmosphere. It does not deplete but if there is a drought it means all of the water just happens to be elsewhere. In this case into the 1%. I often wondered how the economy could be in turmoil. I have been working and spending the whole time. The problem is that all of the money has been given to the wealthy.. then there is talk about a recession (That the wealthy started) So they horde their money exacerbating the issue!

"So instead of revolution, let"s look at areas where hunger has been reduced in the past 20 years and see if we can learn some lessons"-pro

I'm trying to be vague when discussing starving children! I'm not singling out any specific country because statistics will only distract from my main concern which is that the design itself does not look out for starving children despite one of our core ethics being protect the women and the children! We literally bypass our empathy to justify such an atrocity. All I truly know is that if starving children exist in the world we have ALL failed at even the most basic or moral practices!

"So it appears that by actually joining the "world economy", Bangladesh has seen a significant reduction in both poverty and hunger. But didn"t you state this "world economic system" was the cause of world hunger?"-pro

Not good enough! I'm not saying that we are completely void of empathy just enough to look at things without understanding the true reasoning for world hunger.. Which is simply part of the design that siphons resources to the "privileged" I'm saying that no one should be "privileged" Helping a single nation out of poverty is cleaning up one rock in an oil spill. Until the scope of our ambitions reach every living human on this planet we will not be without devastating consequences (mostly from desperation for fear of starvation or homelessness)!

"Increased access to international markets? But isn't that contrary to what you seem to believe?"

Not necessarily.. leave it to us to think we some how fall under this benevolent umbrella where we protect or save other countries while the same issues happens every day! We need to stop claiming that we care about others when we live in a civilization that "demonizes the enemy".. Hint: Our enemies are like the bully at school who notices you have a brand new bike. If his parents could not afford to get him a bike.. more than likely he will take it from you.. so my solution.. give everyone a bike (metaphor)! This reminds me of giving African Americans and women rights. White men arrogantly "allowed them rights" Like they are so righteous to be able to decide when you are allowed rights. This mirrors the accomplishments you have been talking about!

"My question to you: is it really money people do evil for, or is it power that people do evil for; and money just happens to be an abstraction or means to that power?"-pro

Yeah I think it is both. We have an open system that is easily exploited (even by our own government) When someone robs a casino.. they are doing it for pieces of paper with the illusion of value. Unfortunately money does not turn a blood color when given to the wrong people! The fact is you can make a lot more money preying on others than you can working your butt of as a servant.. So it does not surprise me that a good percentage of wealth was not earned but taken.. including the 1% who have been expertly exploiting the system for centuries!

Crap out of characters!


denbo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


Finalfan forfeited this round.


denbo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


I know I come from an unpopular view point. I also barely scratched the surface of how backwards our design is. But if you disagree. Let me know why. All I hear are excuses to keep this illusion alive. Society is only a design or an agreement. It is also controlled by so few while the unfortunate majority has to take it with the only form of lube being artistic mediums and performance arts! Lets face it we got survival down. In fact we have it mastered to the point of suicide. We literally need death more and more as our population grow. Do you think that is why the system is so unbalanced? Survival of the fittest weeding out the week? Either way that is a Darwinian society masquerading under the illusion of humanity!


denbo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


At least I got to vent


denbo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Finalfan 2 years ago
Man I have to apologize: I ranted at you instead of addressing your points. My mind was spinning on (what I beleive is an atrocity) But I realize I did not help you at all by letting my argument flow without proper structure! Anyways.. its a 5 round debate so I will try to do better next round!
Posted by Finalfan 2 years ago
I will try to answer the rest of your rebuttle : I am not the kind of person who practices "If you can't beat them join them". What I see when I look at the people I'm trying to beat are people putting square pegs in round holes. I am not one to join that type of insanity!
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