The Instigator
rkstadum
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
alextp7
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

The current zoo system should be abolished.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
alextp7
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/28/2011 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,274 times Debate No: 15644
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

rkstadum

Pro

The current zoo system isn't decent for animals. I've visited plenty of zoo's and each time I saw many things that could be considered inconsiderate towards the animals. often exhibits are created without consideration of the well-being of the animals and made for our entertainment.
alextp7

Con

To begin, I want to thank my opponent for creating this debate and wish her luck.

Experience

I was in 5th grade when I first when to the zoo. The experience was really eye-opening. I knew what an elephant looked like and what monkeys looked like, but to see it for real. That's a whole different experience. Now, I've gone to the zoos several times each time I had a wonderful experience and learned a whole bunch of information. If we abolish the current zoo system, how are kids supposed to know about animals? You might say the Internet or books and magazines. Well, like I said before it's a different experience when you see an animal up close.

Each zoo is different. Some zoos as you stated above are inconsiderate for the animals. Yet, there are still some that provide everything for the animal which will be my second point.

For the Animals...

Zoos provide food and water for all animals twice a day, not including treats given. Good zoos provide necessary medicines. This helps the animal to be as healthy as possible.(2) Good zoos have veterinarians who can help injured or sick animals, which would die in the wild.(2) When it's hot, zoos try whatever possible to make the animals comfortable(1). Some zoos overcome animals becoming overweight by hiding food or placing it in containers, where the animal has to expend energy to obtain it.(2). As you can see, the zoo is doing everything in support of the animal.

Captivity vs. Wild

"Generallly speaking, animals live longer in captivity than in the wild, because keepers and veterinarians are available to look after their health and diet. If an animal sickens, there are people available to help it and, if the animal dies, post-mortems can be used to help other members of the animal's group."(2)

Animals are safer in the zoo because there are no predators to hunt them. Keeping their population numbers high.

Endangered Animals

Endangered animals are kept in zoos to help them survive and even raise their numbers through mating.

Sources:

1
(video)
2 http://en.allexperts.com...




Debate Round No. 1
rkstadum

Pro

I would also like to begin with a thank you to my opponent for joining me in this debate.

"it's a different experience when you see an animal up close."
From my own experiences I'm most often unable to see the animals. They are often either hiding from the noisy screaming people flashing pictures, or there home is so small they have to choice to sit there are be stared at.

"Yet, there are still some that provide everything for the animal which will be my second point."
The thing that all zoos lack is the animals natural habitat. The painted walls may look real to us but I think an animal can tell the difference between paint and a real tree.
I visited the Omaha zoo this last fall and I walked by a cage holding a leopard cub. The leopard was in a cage about 12 by 24 ft. from my source (http://en.wikipedia.org...) a free leopard lives in an area that ranges from 12-30 sq. miles. This is inconsiderate. Elephants get deceases like Arthritis and Foot Diseases because of there small cages.

"Good zoos have veterinarians who can help injured or sick animals, which would die in the wild."
God put the animals in the wild because they know how to survive in the wild WITHOUT our help.
God didn't put polar bears in Africa for a reason.

"When it's hot, zoos try whatever possible to make the animals comfortable."
Zoos TRY, but a polar bear needs more than a pile of ice and a cold swimming pool.(referring to your video) They were made to live in areas that close to no other animal can go! That is there home, and that is where they should stay.

"Some zoos overcome animals becoming overweight by hiding food or placing it in containers, where the animal has to expend energy to obtain it."
I've seen them do this for monkeys. The container I saw was a plastic bin with holes in it that the monkeys can easily reach. But instead of giving them more exercise (something they'd have more than enough of in the wild) they make the food a bit harder to get.

"Generally speaking, animals live longer in captivity than in the wild, because keepers and veterinarians are available to look after their health and diet."

In a site I found- they said quite the opposite. Because of their lack of space they aren't able to get the exercise they need. A wild elephant herd walks over 30 miles a day. They don't get close to a forth of that in their pens. (http://www.helpelephants.com...)

There was an article done on an elephant that was given medications because she was sick because of lack of space for exercise. The medications were pills that hid the decease from the visitors to hide the zoo's fault.

"Animals are safer in the zoo because there are no predators to hunt them. Keeping their population numbers high."

As I said above the animals were born into that life and can survive just fine. The real predators we should be worried about are people. poachers who hunt the animals. If people are so concerned about the survival of the animals then maybe we should stop taking them out of there habitat (making them unaccustomed to where they were born) and start hounding down on the real reason they are going instinct.

"Endangered animals are kept in zoos to help them survive and even raise their numbers through mating."
Zoos (except for a very small percentage) breed animals to put the babies on display.
alextp7

Con

Not all zoos can be sizes of savannas so they must rationalize the amount of space given to each animal. So you must understand if a leopard can't get 12-30 sq. miles of space. But, zoos do have to divide that space rationally.

God also told us in Genesis 1:26-28 that we have dominion over animal and that we can take it upon ourselves for food, and several other things like education, etc. Those veterinarians help those animals in the zoo get better.

"Zoos, as we will see below, exist to protect endangered species and to help us understand and protect our animal cousins more successfully. One of the reasons animals are taken into captivity in zoos is because they are under threat if they stay in their natural habitat.

There have in the past been many bad zoos and cruel zookeepers. It is imperative that these are reformed and weeded out. Good zoos in which animals are well fed and well looked after in spacious surroundings are becoming the norm and should be encouraged. Zoos can exist without cruelty to animals, however, and so the fact that there are animal welfare problems with some zoos does not meant that all zoos should be shut down.

Zoos nowadays are not marketed as places of entertainment - they are places of education. Most modern zoos have their main emphasis on conservation and education - the reason that so many schools take children to zoos is to teach them about nature, the environment, endangered species, and conservation. Far from encouraging bad treatment of animals, zoos provide a direct experience of other species that will increase ecological awareness

One of the main functions of zoos is to breed endangered animals in captivity. If natural or human factors have made a species' own habitat a threatening environment then human intervention can preserve that species where it would certainly go extinct if there were no intervention. There are certainly problems with trying to conserve endangered species in this way but it is right that we should at least try to conserve them. And as long as animals are treated well in zoos there is no reason why conservation, education, and cruelty-free entertainment should not all be combined in a zoo." (1)

Sources:

1: http://www.idebate.org...


Debate Round No. 2
rkstadum

Pro

Not all zoos can be sizes of savannas so they must rationalize the amount of space given to each animal. So you must understand if a leopard can't get 12-30 sq. miles of space. But, zoos do have to divide that space rationally."

No, not all zoos can be sizes of savannas, that's why we abolish zoos. They are inconsiderate towards the animals. If they were that size there would not be a problem. Leopards can't get 12-30 miles, but they deserve more than a space to walk back and forth. The zoos DO NOT divide the space rationally.

"God also told us in Genesis 1:26-28 that we have dominion over animal and that we can take it upon ourselves for food, and several other things like education, etc."

Yes he did. But God intended that we take care of them. Not abuse them and treat them with such disrespect.

"Zoos, as we will see below, exist to protect endangered species and to help us understand and protect our animal cousins more successfully. One of the reasons animals are taken into captivity in zoos is because they are under threat if they stay in their natural habitat."

Zoos do not help the animals. They are there for entertainment and enjoyment of people. The breeding program is for the enjoyment of the visitors. The people love baby animals.
Animal reserves are MUCH better and more efficient, AND they are in the animals NATURAL HABITAT.
"Kruger National Park is the largest game reserve in South Africa. It covers 18,989 square km" (http://goafrikasafari.com...) This is a MUCH more efficient way of saving the animals- where they are comfortable, happy, with their family, and not disrupted by noisy screaming people.

"Good zoos in which animals are well fed and well looked after in spacious surroundings are becoming the norm and should be encouraged."

GOOD zoos... The debate is about zoos in general. Zoos in general are full of defects and unfair treatment towards animals.

"Zoos can exist without cruelty to animals, however, and so the fact that there are animal welfare problems with some zoos does not meant that all zoos should be shut down."

Yes zoos could be reformed through a series of laws and acts, but that could take decades and animals don't have that long to wait.

"Zoos nowadays are not marketed as places of entertainment - they are places of education. Most modern zoos have their main emphasis on conservation and education - the reason that so many schools take children to zoos is to teach them about nature, the environment, endangered species, and conservation. Far from encouraging bad treatment of animals, zoos provide a direct experience of other species that will increase ecological awareness"

As I said before, often you are unable to see the animals that are hiding from the people, and if you can see them they are in a cage WAY TOO SMALL. Also, animals in zoos are much more stressed and don't act as they would in there natural habitat where they are comfortable and happy. The children get the wrong impression of animals. The animals often are board or hot or tired so they lie down or hide. What is educational about observing an animal you can hardly see? Also, its not the duty of the people to regulate an animals natural habitat. Hence the word NATURAL habitat. We've caused enough damage to other ecosystems, its the least we can do is leave them alone in the few areas they have left.

"If natural or human factors have made a species' own habitat a threatening environment then human intervention can preserve that species where it would certainly go extinct if there were no intervention. There are certainly problems with trying to conserve endangered species in this way but it is right that we should at least try to conserve them. And as long as animals are treated well in zoos there is no reason why conservation, education, and cruelty-free entertainment should not all be combined in a zoo."

If humans had never intervened in the first place we wouldn't have the problem. My point is that animals are NOT being treated fairly so saying that "as long as they treat them fairly" defeats the purpose of the debate since zoos fail to do so.

Zoos are a source of entertainment for the public to see animals and watch them. But if the public can't see the animals
then the public is unhappy. So to make the people happy they make the animals more visible. To make the animals more visible one must limit the places they can hide. THIS is cruel and inhumane. The animals need space! The animals need privacy. We are invading their lives, peace, privacy, all for some entertainment. Really? Do you really think this is humane? Do you think this is educational? Teaching kids that this treatment is okay is not what I call a "good" education!
alextp7

Con

Cruelty

If there is one thing I can't stand, it has to be cruelty in general. Cruelty is unacceptable towards humans and animals. When I see commercials about animal cruelty, I always tell myself who has such a cruel heart that they could do that to an animal? Some zoos have been caught about cruelty but as I stated before. Just because a zoo has animal welfare problems does not mean all zoos should be shut down.

Space

This week I went to Busch Garden. I kept in mind this argument, but what I saw was completely contrary to your arguments. Busch Garden (and Animal Kingdom in Disney) teach the visitors all about the animals. I learned so much that it's unbelievable. I even saw a hyena for the first time! I studied the people around me and saw how they were all excited about seeing a specific animal (Yet, there were a few that were annoyed and just wanted the rollercoasters). If we abolish zoo systems, a lot of these attractions must close down even if they do have enough space (like a savannah).

However, you must understand that an area is limited in zoo. Animals are well fed and healthy, so why abolish this system?

Natural Habitat

Pinning down exact numbers is nearly impossible, but most experts agree that we are losing upwards of 80,000 acres of tropical rainforest daily, and significantly degrading another 80,000 acres every day on top of that. Along with this loss and degradation, we are losing some 135 plant, animal and insect species every day—or some 50,000 species a year—as the forests fall.(1)

An animal's habitat is being destroyed. Zoos help keep animal population up. So, they try their best to imitate the animals original habitat. But, you must understand they can't plant like 5 billion trees in an area. Zoo's space is limited. (for the a billion time).


Endangered Species

If we abolish the current zoo system, many animals will become extinct like the Californian condor, black-footed ferret, Arabian oryx, European bison, Mauritius kestrel, echo parakeet and various Partula snails (2).


Overall, zoos are used not for entertainment purposes, but for educating us about animals. Did you know the 2 toed-sloth are expert swimmers and are green in the rainforest because algae grows in their hair? I learned that yesterday. As you can see, zoos have a huge educational value and I really want to learn more about animals in the future and I bet a whole bunch of people out there do too. So, we need to keep our zoos.

Thank you.


Sources:
1 http://replantingtherainforests.org...
2 http://en.allexperts.com...
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by rkstadum 3 years ago
rkstadum
I do agree that the Omaha zoo is "awesome", very animal centered in many areas and they do their best to make it enjoyable for the people. But I gave an example of something I saw there that I did not like. I'm not dissing the entire zoo. The only part i did not like was the areas where they tried to show the animal better by making their cage very very small.. A snake was given just enough space to coil up and sleep. THAT is not fair. The leopard was given just enough space to walk in a circle and sleep on a branch. THAT is not fair.
Posted by zach12 3 years ago
zach12
The Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha, Nebraska is awesome and nothing but good for the animals.
Posted by 26pets 3 years ago
26pets
I do agree that "the current zoo system should be abolished". However not every zoo is treated like this. Some major zoos are kept extremely clean and tidy the animals are well looked after. Its like neighborhoods not all of them are filled with crime and problems; there's good, clean neighborhoods out there.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
rkstadumalextp7Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: "God put the animals in the wild because they know how to survive in the wild WITHOUT our help." - except the ones that don't, Pro did not address con but simply repeated the non-natural assertion
Vote Placed by RougeFox 3 years ago
RougeFox
rkstadumalextp7Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Lol @ the god argument. But I vote off of the extinction/endangerment argument.
Vote Placed by bradshaw93 3 years ago
bradshaw93
rkstadumalextp7Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: they both had sources