The devil possibly doesn't exist as an evil conscious supernatural being.
Debate Rounds (5)
Round 1 is for acceptance, when an opponent has accepted and is ready, we shall begin this debate.
First of all let us remind ourselves what the word Satan really means. You see, back in the day, at the times of the Old Testament, the Hebrew word Satan wasn't used to describe an evil spirit or demon. Satan was a word used to describe someone who is an adversary. The word Satan was used to describe any individual who was an adversary. Anyone who was your adversary would be a Satan. I could say that right now you are my Satan.
"The word satan in Hebrew (the language of the Old Testament), is generally accepted to mean 'to obstruct', but it also has in it the idea of an opponent or an adversary (i.e. one who challenges). Thus 'the satan' originally meant one who 'obstructs', or 'challenges'. This aspect of the satan is seen in the story of Balaam and his donkey (Numbers 22:21ff). Balaam was going on a journey against the wishes of God, who sent 'a satan' (obstructer) to stand in his way ('... the angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose him'). It is only because his donkey saw the angel and refused to go on, that Balaam was prevented from being killed. So here we see that a 'satan' in this instance is not an evil being, but simply an angel sent to 'obstruct' (literally stop) Balaam. In 1 Kings 11:14 the word satan is also used to describe an enemy of Solomon ('Then the Lord raised up against Solomon an adversary'). Once again, satan here does not refer to an evil being." - http://www.thatreligiousstudieswebsite.com...
You see, in this case an angel of the Lord was a Satan. Because Balaam was going on a journey against the wishes of God, God sent his angel to oppose Balaam. This angel was Balaam's adversary, his Satan, because he opposed Balaam.
The book of Job was the first time in the Old Testament when the word satan was used describe a particular individual, spelled Ha-Satan, meaning The Satan. But this was not a devil or demon/fallen angel. It was an angel of god who tested Job's faith in god, Ha-Satan was the accuser.
"Satan is primarily understood as an "accuser" or "adversary" in the Hebrew Bible, and is not necessarily the personification of evil that he would become in later Abrahamic religions." http://en.wikipedia.org...
"In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. Texts make no direct link between the serpent that tempts Eve in the Garden of Eden from Genesis and references to a Satan in the first book of Chronicles and in Job. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge)." http://en.wikipedia.org...
Let's have one thing in mind - all of the "later Abrahamic religions" were based on the Old Testament. Christianity and Islam isn't a completely new religion that is different from the Old Testament. They are based on the same god, the God of the Old Testament.
"In Islam, Jesus (Isa) is considered to be a messenger of God (Allah) and the Messiah (al-Masih) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (Bani Isra'il) with a new scripture, the Gospel" (Injil). http://en.wikipedia.org...
Same god, you see?
"In mainstream Christianity the Devil is known as Satan and sometimes as Lucifer, although it has been noted that the reference in Isaiah 14:12 to Lucifer, or the Son of the Morning, is a reference to the Babylonian king. http://en.wikipedia.org...;
Oh, you thought Lucifer was Satan? Think again!
"Lucifer is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word in Isaiah 14:12. This word, transliterated h"l"l or heylel, occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible and according to the KJV-influenced Strong's Concordance means "shining one, morning star, Lucifer". The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate, which translates as lucifer,[Isa 14:12] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing". The Septuagint renders (he!3;sphoros), a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.
In this passage Isaiah applies to a king of Babylon the image of the morning star fallen from the sky, an image he is generally believed to have borrowed from a legend in Canaanite mythology." http://en.wikipedia.org...
Lucifer here isn't used to refer to a fallen angel, but it is used to describe a Babylonian king.
"Christian tradition, influenced by the Jewish presentation of the passage of Isaiah as applicable to Satan, came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for Satan as Satan was before his fall. As a result, "Lucifer has become a by-word for Satan in the Church and in popular literature", as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost.
However, the Latin word lucifer kept its original positive sense for early Christians, as is evident from its use as a personal name by, among others, two 4th-century bishops, Lucifer of Cagliari and Lucifer of Siena, and its appearance in the Easter Proclamation as a description of Jesus."
You see, even Jesus himself was Lucifer! Revelation 22:16 - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. http://www.sacred-texts.com...
Lucifer - the morning star, Venus, the light-bringer,shining one, bringer of dawn. Why did such a positive word of light become so perversely twisted to become a synonym for negativity and darkness? Probably because of misinterpretation. There isn't a supernatural being Lucifer at all. Lucifer is Venus.
So let's mention the Inquisition. So many have died because of the Catholic churches misinterpretation that I am ashamed of being baptized.
"During what is known as the Little Ice Age, Pope Innocent VIII, in his papal bull Summis desiderantes affectibus (5 December 1484) instigated severe measures against magicians and witches in Germany. The grip of freezing weather, failing crops, rising crime, and mass starvation was blamed on witches. He issued the bull to inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacobus Sprenger to systemize the persecution of witches.
"It has recently come to our ears, not without great pain to us, that in some parts of upper Germany, [...] Mainz, Koin, Trier, Salzburg, and Bremen, many persons of both sexes, heedless of their own salvation and forsaking the catholic faith, give themselves over to devils male and female, and by their incantations, charms, and conjurings, and by other abominable superstitions" - http://en.wikipedia.org...
Superstitions? How dare you Pope Innocent?! If anyone is superstitious it is you! You are not "Innocent" at all! If you ask me the Catholic church is the real "Devil" and the real "master of lies". No offense to any Catholics, just my opinion.
But at least there were some people such as Johann Weyer who were smart enough to be against that stuff. Weyer believed that most, probably all, cases of alleged witchcraft resulted from delusions of the alleged witch, rather than actual, voluntary cooperation with spiritual evil. In brief, Weyer claimed that cases of alleged witchcraft were psychological rather than supernatural in origin. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Very smart guy. Poor witches.
I think that this "Devil" character is only in the minds of Christians and Muslims who cannot take responsibility for their mistakes, but would rather use the devil as a scapegoat for their "sins". Theistic Satanists are even more deluded, worshiping a non existing deity and thinking it will give them "powers". I know these things because I was a Christian and a Theistic Satanist. But now, I don't have any belief in this devil character at all and see it as joke really.
boy: Where is The Devil?
angel: Do you think God would allow that? If I made you god for one second what would be the first thing you do?
boy: To destroy any Devil!
You see? This is a good site to get some real info on this subject - http://www.near-death.com...
I believe that this Devil being could actually just be people's own psychological guilt and fear resulting from desires.
" Carl G. Jung, a near-death experiencer and the father of analytical psychology, defined the "devil" to be the dark aspect of human nature which exists solely within a person's mind. Jung called this dark nature the shadow archetype and said it represents the negative ego personality and qualities which are painful and regrettable. When we have dark thoughts or engaged in negative activity, we may experience guilt, fear, and anxiety. Jung believed the shadow archetype is made up of those aspects of our lives which we try to repress. But this repression may sooner or later result in their manifestation. For example, if someone is brought up believing that sex is dirty, they may end up becoming promiscuous because they had repressed this aspect of their nature. What such a person is doing is trying to embrace the darker aspects of their life which is previously forbidden to them. While Christianity believes that evil is in opposition to good, Jung saw evil as that which needs to be recognized and in some ways embraced in order for a person to remain psychologically balanced."
Eckhart Tolle in his book The Power of Now says that we create these beings called painbodies, and how they feed on our, well, pain.
Do you agree?
They be like, then why is there so much evil in the world and stuff like that... I think that evil doesn't actually exist, I think it's only stupidity, ignorance. I do not agree with the usual dualistic system of good and evil. "Sins" are just mistakes which humans make and are necessary for our evolution and development, I mean how could you learn if you didn't make mistakes? Mistakes are an acceptable part of being human. There cannot be evil in a human soul, it is lack of love. "Evil" is just a low negative thought vibration. While love and spiritual development are high vibrations. Evil actually doesn't exist, evil is just stupidity and ignorance. Hitler was not an "evil" person, he was just so incredibly ignorant that he was retarded at a spiritual level. We should pity such people. We should not hate such a person who is retarded.
Here are some good quotes from people who had a near death experience.
"The struggle between higher and lower self or what some call God and the Devil causes growth, until finally the negativity or the destructive elements are completely overcome."
"There is no devil. But if there is one, he would have to be an insane angel who was crazy enough to fight with God, which would be as futile as for us to try to stop the sunrise. The devil is a mythological character invented by humans and used for a scapegoat. Grown people with immature minds like to blame the devil for their misdeeds instead of acting like people and taking the blame themselves. However, there may be earthbound spirits of low vibrations, whom we may regard as devils because they annoy us through mental telepathy. These demons tune in on us through our low vibrations of hate, fear and greed."
"Hell is a psychological condition which corresponds to the suffering we experience on Earth when we allow ourselves to be driven by the blind greed of our own egos. There are no "devils" here to inflict punishments, since in the state of hell, each person acts out their own malice by tormenting others."
"Just knowing the bad mistakes you made through your carelessness or your selfishness is a hell. You don't need a devil prodding you with a fork. Believe me, your own anguished mind is a prod that is more hurtful than any prodding with a devil's fork. I met a man over here who said that he would gladly exchange good old Dante's Inferno for the mental anguish he was experiencing over guilt feelings from wrong actions he had taken on Earth in certain business matters. In Dante's Inferno he would be able to complain that the devil was doing this to him, whereas now he had no devil to complain of because the devil was himself. Whether there is a negative personal being who can be called the devil I cannot say. I have not seen anyone personified as the devil. There certainly is an evil force which builds up from the negative aspects of life and has a tremendous influence. Thought forms which are evil certainly play a part, but I don't think they are the whole answer."
"Murderers in hell do not see a devil. Full of hatred or vengeance, he expects to find nothing after death, and for a long time that is what he finds - nothing. Then he discovers that the hell he had every reason to expect is indeed awaiting him. It is not goblins and devils that he sees, but visions of his own face distorted by hatred, greed, malice, and other defeating emotions. He cringes from the sight, realizing that he sees himself thus, that he himself was possessed of a devil, and that except for his baser nature he would have been able unaided to cast him forth. He is appalled as he realizes that he wasted a lifetime of opportunity. Not for him is enrollment in the temple of wisdom or the higher school of learning."
"I had a descent into what you might call Hell ... I did not see Satan or evil. My descent into Hell was a descent into each person's customized human misery, ignorance, and darkness of not-knowing. It seemed like a miserable eternity. But each of the millions of souls around me had a little star of light always available. But no one seemed to pay attention to it. They were so consumed with their own grief, trauma and misery." http://www.near-death.com...
Good stuff, eh? Kinda proves the whole concept of the Devil being a powerful evil conscious supernatural being is a made up thing. There could be some low vibrational spirits but these forces are to weak to cause any real harm. Our biggest enemy is ourselves!
Creationism is the belief that one should read the book of Genesis, and take it all literally, as in Adam and Eve were the first humans which God magically created out of nothing etc... If that is what you meant by creationism then yes, I agree it is a bit silly to take the Bible literally. :)
Aleister Crowley said this in one of his books: "One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad."
I love that guy. :)
Although I am not a silly ol' creationist, I do believe there must have been some sort of force, an energy, which created matter from non matter. Was it God? I don't know, I believe the word God is very abused. Such things which we cannot explain we attribute them to God or we say science has not found the answer yet. Also I do believe there is a possibility for life after death, whether It's heaven, reincarnation or maybe both - I don't know, but I truly hope consciousness exists after death.
These things cannot be proven neither right nor wrong.
It is the big mystery of life.
The great question every man asks himself.
Can it be answered?
But one day, we shall all find out what awaits us beyond the gates of death, whether we like it or not.
No votes have been placed for this debate.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.