The Instigator
rkmcdaniel
Pro (for)
Winning
27 Points
The Contender
robzilla180
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

The drinking age should be lowered to 18.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/10/2007 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,688 times Debate No: 200
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (13)

 

rkmcdaniel

Pro

THe drinking age in the United States in one of the highest ages in the world; yet there are more drunk driving deaths per capita in this country than in any country in the world. Obviously a high drinking age is not solving the problem, and may be contributing to it. In many European countries, children are introduced to alcohol at a very young age, and alcohol becomes a staple in the kitchen, much like tea or Coke. It is not a taboo or a rite of passage as in the United States. Lowering the drinking age coupled with increasing DUI punishments is the proper means that United States should be implementing.
robzilla180

Con

Believe that we need different laws in the United States because the United States is soo different from other countries. In the US, youths are much more reckless and irresponsible than those in other countries (on the whole. There are exceptions). Those youths in other countries have worries like, "how am I going to eat tonight" and "How can I help pay the rent?" While here in America, kids are asking, "I wonder where Paris Hilton is now?". I do believe that there must be greater punishments for those who drive drunk, but I don't believe letting very very young adults drink will make them anymore responsible. Another thing to think about is that every time you take a drink before the age of 25, you are killing brain cells. This can not be good for America's youth.
Debate Round No. 1
rkmcdaniel

Pro

I'd like to start off my rebuttal by pointing out the flaws in your arguments, then move on to re establish my own case.

Your assertion: "In the US, youths are much more reckless and irresponsible than those in other countries (on the whole. There are exceptions)."

My response: I'd first like to point out the fact that you have absolutely no evidence to back up this claim. If you can find proof for this claim, other than your personal beliefs, please present it.

Your assertion: Those youths in other countries have worries like, "how am I going to eat tonight" and "How can I help pay the rent?"

My response: Europe is just as civilized as the United States. Youths in Europe are the same as youths in America. Besides, there are many more countries than Europe that have a lower drinking age than the United States. The scope of this debate is not limited to Europe. For example, Canada's drinking age is lower then that of the United States. For your argument to work, you must prove that all youths in countries whose drinking age is lower that that of the United States are preoccupied with domestic issues, and do not have as much time to binge drink like youths of the United States.

Your assertion: "I don't believe letting very very young adults drink will make them anymore responsible."

My response: Of course not, they are allowed to drink now, illegally, but still allowed. Lowering the drinking and increasing penalties for breaking related laws will greatly influence the cultural view in the United States of alcohol. The United States must move to removing the cultural stigma that comes with alcohol. Only in this country is this view expressed (the cultural stigma view). Every other country (for the most part) has very lax alcohol laws, but they have even harsher driving and drunk in public laws.

My rebuttal: Numerous scientific studies have indicated that the drinking age in the United States should be lowered. These studies cite sociological studies that indicate the social stigma against alcohol is creates an attitude toward alcohol that is prevalent in many youth in the United States. For example, a study done by Ruth C. Engs, Professor, Applied Health Sciences,
Indiana University states that "Although the legal purchase age is 21 years of age, a majority of college students under this age consume alcohol but in an irresponsible manner. This is because drinking by these youth is seen as an enticing 'forbidden fruit,' a 'badge of rebellion against authority' and a symbol of 'adulthood.'" This highlights the crux of my argument. I won't go into all the details of her essay, but here is the link if you would like to read more: http://www.indiana.edu...

In addition to this report, the Washington Post ran an article highlighting the fact that laws in Europe tend to focus on the driving laws and not the alcohol laws, thus decreasing alcohol related car incidents. The article is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Yet another article published by Vanderbilt University's newspaper the "Orbis", states that "By criminalizing drinking, it becomes a symbol of rebellion and of perceived maturity by many underage drinkers. The laws that require a person to be 21 to possess, purchase or consume alcohol are not only naive, they are counterproductive. The drinking age should be lowered to 18." You can read the entire article here: http://media.www.vanderbiltorbis.com...
robzilla180

Con

robzilla180 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
rkmcdaniel

Pro

rkmcdaniel forfeited this round.
robzilla180

Con

robzilla180 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by StrawberriixHeartz 9 years ago
StrawberriixHeartz
Statistics show that brain cells are killed due to over drinking.
Posted by gack1224 9 years ago
gack1224
I think it doesn't necessarily kill brain cells unless you hurt yourself when drunk (i.e. fall, get in a fight, get in a car accident, etc.). But I think most institutes on the subject believe (based on animal studies) that alcohol inhibits new neuron cells which leads to stunted/slowed growth of neurons in the brain.
Posted by IamMe90 9 years ago
IamMe90
Pretty sure con is lying when he says that "everytime you take a drink before the age of 25 you kill brain cells"... that is, I'm pretty sure the age 25 has nothing to do with the amount of brain cells that are killed by alcohol. Or if alcohol in small consumptions even kills brain cells in a substantive way at all.. but w/e
Posted by StrawberriixHeartz 9 years ago
StrawberriixHeartz
The affirmative could've brought up that the resolution " The Drinking Age should be lowered to 18", did not specify for teens just in the US.
I would've gone on to the AFF's side if it showed better evidence and statistics because I believe that the lower the age of drinking, the higher the death rate will be. You could've brought up a country in Europe and the US then compared it. Bring up that in the US, 60% of all teen death have to do with alcohol related car accidents. You could've also mentioned that around 30% of those drivers were males in the age group of 21-24. What would that say about the US and its irresponsibilities? Does it still make it civilized? Define civilized.
Also, shouldn't there be some sort of Value Criterion or Core Value? Or is that only for specific debates????
Posted by TheRedneckCabbie 9 years ago
TheRedneckCabbie
Who says 21 is the magic age of maturity? There are young men and women who are very mature even at age 16 or 17. Conversely, some 25 year old have no business drinking based on their maturity level.

Bottom line is that you are responsible for your own actions at age 18, thus you should be able to enjoy a beer or drink with your buddies at that age.

Regardless of the existing state laws, any active member of the military, ages 18-20 should be able to have a drink.
Posted by gack1224 9 years ago
gack1224
"Theoretically, if it could be enforced completely and without question, it might work. But instead I favor that we just make it harder for more people to get alcohol, which is what you're advocating. I'm against that."

should be

Theoretically, if it could be enforced completely and without question, it might work. But instead I favor that we just make it harder for more people to get alcohol, which is what you're advocating against. I'm against that (loosening restrictions to obtain and consume alcohol).
Posted by gack1224 9 years ago
gack1224
Read your history. Only a handful of cops and detectives could resist the temptations of alcohol and bribery. I will cite sources upon demand. It is not offensive, it's fact. I'm not saying that good things such as the ATF didn't come out of the Prohibition Age but that what was sought wasn't gained (order and stability mostly).
I won't infringe on other people's rights and say they have no right to drink. They do. And you are straw-manning my argument. I'm saying very clearly that I would favor a full ban. However, for the reasons the Prohibition failed, I don't think it would go over well. Theoretically, if it could be enforced completely and without question, it might work. But instead I favor that we just make it harder for more people to get alcohol, which is what you're advocating. I'm against that.
"The government does not have to legislate a full ban to achieve what is desirable in my opinion." Then how exactly does the government keep people from consuming alcohol with out legislation? Go on TV ad beg people not to drink? If you do not "desire" for people to not drink alcohol at all, then don't post it here, it is not relevant and has no bearing if you are not willing to defend this position.
The government simply needs to make sure alcohol isn't abused. You don't do this by saying the death penalty will be imposed if you kill someone when you're under the influence of alcohol. That's absurd because people aren't reasoning well when drunk. They don't deserve to be punished for an accident just as a child shouldn't be punished for breaking a jar. They're already sorry for what they've done and they simply committed an accident. The government needs to instead make it harder to access alcohol (harder to break jars) to limit the abuse of and accidents resulting from alcohol
I have the right to my opinion and my ideas. What I desire and what I think should happen are separate things. I desire to relax for the rest of my life but I should better the world.
Posted by rkmcdaniel 9 years ago
rkmcdaniel
First off, ask any leading authority on the subject, I assume you are not, and they will tell you that banning alcohol was a MISTAKE. This nonsense about trusting law enforcement is ridiculouss and personally offensive. You are basically saying that law enforcement could not be trusted to do their jobs. If this was so, then why did prohibition result in the creation of the ATF, if law enforcement was not thustworthy and serious about upholding the law?

My mistake, you are not a flip-flopper, you just won't stand up for what you believe in. What the worse is, I don't know. THis is not a "personal attack" it is an analysis based on your statements.

"The government does not have to legislate a full ban to achieve what is desirable in my opinion." Then how exactly does the government keep people from consuming alcohol with out legislation? Go on TV ad beg people not to drink? If you do not "desire" for people to not drink alcohol at all, then don't post it here, it is not relevant and has no bearing if you are not willing to defend this position.
Posted by gack1224 9 years ago
gack1224
They did not have poor judgment. They only made a simple mistake (of trusting law enforcement) but had good intentions. A ban may have been overly radical, but the view that alcohol should be restricted is not.

" "I don't think anybody should be drinking. At all."

Then you say:

"I'm not arguing that alcohol should be banned, only that it should be much harder to gain access to alcohol and prevent people from accessing it." "

Clearly what I meant (and I worded it very carefully) is that I'm against drinking entirely, but that a full ban isn't necessary to achieve basically what I want. The government does not have to legislate a full ban to achieve what is desirable in my opinion.

"You are clearly advocating for the complete banning of alcohol, unless you have changed your mind within one day."
I find this comment insulting and nearly a personal attack. You are implying that I flip-flop on the issues when I am not. You are being overly offensive to cover up for being mostly on the defensive. I can disagree with your views and you with mine without attempting to undermine my, or others', reputation.
Posted by rkmcdaniel 9 years ago
rkmcdaniel
"I'm not saying their views are correct nor that a majority of the actions they take uphold their own morals, but that you can't stereotype people as inherently have poor judgment and actions when they may be different from your own."

They practiced poor judgement on this subject, and should not be used as an aothority on it.

Again, the United needs to take a step in the right direction by lowering the drinking age, increasing penalties for breaking related laws, and probably increase the driving age to 18 (something many European countries have). This, coupled with more understanding of the effects of responsibly drinking alcohol, and not just blind hatred because of a fear or misunderstanding of the sybject, will be steps in the right direction for this country. That is what I am advocating.

"I don't think anybody should be drinking. At all."

Then you say:

"I'm not arguing that alcohol should be banned, only that it should be much harder to gain access to alcohol and prevent people from accessing it."

You are clearly advocating for the complete banning of alcohol, un less you have changed your mind within one day.
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by liberalconservative 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by StrawberriixHeartz 9 years ago
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