The Instigator
mrmatt505
Pro (for)
Losing
28 Points
The Contender
wingnut2280
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

The earth is flat

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2007 Category: Science
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,292 times Debate No: 629
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (23)
Votes (22)

 

mrmatt505

Pro

Framework for this debate: Whoever can defend their position the best should win the debate rather than common belief. This is a serious debate and I implore everyone looking to vote on the subject to read the debate. It should get interesting!

Throughout history, scientists and common people have argued on whether the world is spherical or flat.

Despite most recent belief, the world is in fact flat and can be proven as such by first creating a visual image, then taking out the evidence supporting the world being spherical and finally explaining the reasons why the earth is indeed flat.

The earth is in essence, a flat chuck of land that has taken the shape of an oval. The atmosphere around the earth is indeed spherical. Underneath the earth, there are large mountains that droop. The atmosphere holds them all in place. The sun revolves around the earth and the other planets and moons revolve around the sun. In our universe, this is the best explanation for orbital patterns.

How does one fly all the way around the world and not notice that the earth is flat? Simple. They don't. Amelia Earhart was one of the unfortunate peoples who was not informed that if she continues flying in a straight line, that she would eventually fly off the edge of the earth. Those who had come before her AND even after, knew the real secret that the world was flat or some were even fortunate enough to get lost. Christopher Columbus himself wanted to gain his own personal renown and accidentally came across "The New World". He wanted to fool the people aboard his ship by setting up strategic mirrors to give the image that they weren't just sailing in circles. This backfired on him and he got himself lost and sailed to the new world without realizing it. After him, Magellan and his crew inadvertently sailed down the new world, but instead of sailing west on the Pacific Ocean, they sailed east through the Atlantic and came up on east side of Africa and then claimed that the journey took so long because they were attacked and got lost. Today, airplanes just circle high in the clouds east when the passengers think they are going west.

Then how can I explain the space photos clearly showing that the earth is spherical? Easy enough. There are two reasons. Ocular distortions and the atmosphere forces the earth to reflect itself in such a way that it looks like the world is spherical.

I would like to thank whoever takes on this debate in advance!
wingnut2280

Con

If I buy that all airplanes circle East to move West etc., does that mean that 1) all forms of transportation do this (boats, cars etc.)? 2) Do the people operating these things have a secret cult that knows the Earth is flat and I don't hear about it? Do all pilots have a training session when they become pilots that says "hey, we just circle in the air."

Also, time and distance refute this principle. Lets say the ends of the Earth were the Mississipi River. Cut the globe there and lay it flat. Why does it take me an hour to fly from Chicago to St. Louis instead of it taking me 25 hours to fly all the way to the other side of the world? You have this problem no matter where the ends of the earth.

Why do satelites and astronauts orbit the spherical earth? I could, if I had the money, go travel in 360 degrees around the Earth. This makes it spherical.

Due to new technological advances the way we experience the world is sheprical. We arent required to rely soley on stoires and pictures. We have the ability to experience the entirity of the world as a shperical nature.

As far as the sun orbiting the Earth, this would defy the seasons and changes in daylight duration we experience. Basically, even if all of our science is somehow flawed, all of our EXPERIENCES indicate the spherical nature of the Earth. I could sit here and cite you hundreds of years of science which would also support this claim, but simply, I can just experience the world as a sphere.

I realize I haven't covered all the bases here, but I'm looking forward to your response. thanks
Debate Round No. 1
mrmatt505

Pro

I do thank you for accepting this debate, and this is truly a serious debate.

First to refute your arguments about airplanes, yes, pilots are in on the whole conspiracy. That is why being a pilot is so exclusive. Next, the time things is not refuted because of a plethora of variables. 1) Different planes go different speeds based on how far one is traveling. It took my brother 14 hours to get to Japan from the west coast when it should have taken a lot less time. I am advocating that it would be impossible for someone to fly all the way around the world and yes, the same applies with ships and cars. Especially carse because obviously you can't drive through oceans. (If you know of a car that can, I really would like to see it and I am not being sarcastic. I saw this episode of The Simpsons where Homer rented an electric car and drove it in the water and made it through a body of water and I thought that was pretty spiffy.) Anyway, with domestic air travel, the same time allocation happens with the theory that the world is flat AND with the theory that the world is spherical because there wouldn't be enough of a change.

And, Astronauts and satellites stay within the central orbital which circles the earth on the top rather than going on all sides. Also, seasons would not be altered and the earth being flat theory still accomodates that. The sun doesn't JUST move from left to right (looking at a map) or vice versa, but rather orbits on a more vertical pattern. The earth itself is still spinning, but rather like a top than on an axis.

Furthermore, philanthropists and other people who have "circled the earth" have just been given the thought that they have. They are up in the clouds for so long that they 1) lose their barings and 2) can't see anything. It truly is impossible to fly all the way around the world and those people that have experienced this phenomena have spoken up, but have been silenced. There are those who have leaked the secret but yet people don't believe it so this fact has never had the chance to become popular.

None of our experiments/experiences indicate that the world is spherical. Look to Earhart, she didn't know the world was flat and flew out into the abyss.

Food for thought: Why is the Middle-East called that instead of the Near-West? Why are traditional maps drawn in a manner that shows 2D?
Where do the numerous people who have tried to travel around the world and never come back go?

Thanks again!
wingnut2280

Con

First, there are numerous personal journals of people who have sailed or flown around the world. Compasses and the like ensure that we do not get lost or misdirected and simply believe that they traveled around. This is evident in the sequence of things I see. When people fly East they see New York, then lots of water, then France then Russia etc. When people fly West, they see things in reverse order with exact continuity. This shows that the Earth is round. If it were flat, I would have hit an end, or if I got lost, have seen things in one order, rather than in either direction.

Next, I can measure my position on the Earth based on mapping the stars. If I am more south, southern stars appear higher in the sky than if I am more north. This would not be possible if the Earth were flat, stars would stay stationary. If the Earth were a rounded disc, this would only be possible if I were on the edges.

If I watch a boat sail into the horizon, it slips below it. But, when I climb to a higher point the boat is visible again, indicating the roundness of the Earth.

Again, the distance argument. Using a speedometer I can track my distance over time and relate the time to one place versus another. I can do this infinately in both directions and relate the time it took to travel equal distances.

Next, the satelite argument. Pictures from space are taken at every angle in space. Also, if the satelites did orbit circularly, why do they show different landmass at different times instead of showing all of the different land masses at once. Ocular distortions is not a valid argument here because EVERY picture shows this, not just a few anamolies.

Also, if the world were not spherical, the laws of gravity and atmospheric pressure would not be universal as they are because the mass of the earth would not be distributed in three dimensions equally.

Shadows are another exmaple. Light rays, by nature are all parallel. If the earth were not spherical or the sun orbited the Earth in some spherical pattern. The shadows of two identical things would be the same. Instead the shadows of two identical things differ based of logintudinal placement.

Additionally, time zones show the earth is round. If the earth were flat, it would be night everywhere at once and light everywhere at once, rather than making equal marked progress across the world.

Hopefully the dozen or so reasons I have given are proof to the spherical nature of the earth.

As far as your questions, people made and named things in a time where the world was considered flat. The name is relational to the known world at the time. 2-D maps are convinent and easier than globes and again, are from a different time. The people who don't come back get lost at see, there are those who do come back.
Debate Round No. 2
mrmatt505

Pro

First, the personal journals that people have been writter were made by deceit. These people that claim they have gone around the world are either lying for the fame and glory of it, or they themselves are being deceived by others. In your first speech, you said if YOU had the money to go around the world you would have. You have not and therefore you couldn't have experienced these things first handed.

Next onto the stars argument. Yes, we can map our position from the stars, but that is only because the universe itself is in constant motion. The universe itself follows special patterns due to gravity.

Again, onto your arguments bout the boat and how if you go to a high point you can see it again. You answered your own argument because the earth itself has "ripples" on the surface. Furthermore though, whenever the phenomenon happes, it can also be due to the movements of the tectonic plates as they are trying to form around a "central point"* (see bottom paragraph for more info).

And, pictures are taken at different angles of space, that is why we see parts of the world at different angles. I don't know about you, but I have photoshop on my computer! But, ocular distortion still proves because it isn't an "anamoly", but rather it is the way that the cameras were designed.

The earth is three-dimesional. Anything that has volume is three-dimenstional. The earth is cylindrical with huge mountains sticking out of the bottom. We wouldn't be able to mine for gold and other natural resources if the earth was as thin as a sheet of paper. But to further answer this question, do refer to my final paragraph.

Again on the shadow argument. The sun takes a two-part orbital around the earth where it is never, ever directly above the earth but rather at different angles. It goes in a diagonal ring one way around the earth, and then another way. The sun orbits the erath a lot faster than "we orbit the sun" (according to your theory.)

"2-D maps are convinent and easier than globes and again, are from a different time." Precisely, why haven't we changed our maps from a different time period if they are oriented in a more 2-D way? We haven't because the earth is flat!

Final Paragraph: There are a plethora of what we commonly call central points of gravitation that the earth is constantly trying to form itself around. This a) explains tectonic plate shifts b) explains why we have shadows c) shows why we can see certain objects sinking away into the sunset from higher points d) explains how gravity is equal everywhere. e) shows more accurately how dormant volcanoes react while others aren't f) explains tsunamis. The reason why the earth has not formed around any one point is because the other points are constantly pulling the earth in other ways. The earth has not ripped apart yet because of magma and lava that continues to "repair" the earth. It just makes more logical sense that the earth is flat.

P.S. The stars move around each other, whichever one has the strongest gravitational pull based on the distance shows this. The sun itself moves around the earth while the erath is moving and the planets revolve around the sun.

Extending Framework: Whoever can defend their position the best should win the round. This is the only way someone should vote. I hope this is fair framework and also hope that my advocate does not have a problem with this.
wingnut2280

Con

wingnut2280 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mrmatt505 9 years ago
mrmatt505
That wouldn't have stopped me!
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
I'm surprised the con didn't go the route of demanding evidence as that would have stopped the pro in his tracks.
Posted by verbivore 9 years ago
verbivore
Why is CON winning when he forfeited? PRO made alot of good analytical arguments.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
if the world is flat, then, it should either go on forever, or end at some point, in hwich there was an "edge", and accordingly, you could go "under" the earth, and therefore there should be space under the earth. Is it then a flat surface, in space? NAd then also how thick is this flat surface in space? Also, how would gravity form such a thing?
Posted by mrmatt505 9 years ago
mrmatt505
Yeah, I have done some research because I thought it was not plausible and quite frankly a bunch of crap, but it really does make more sense than the earth being spherical.
Posted by dixielover 9 years ago
dixielover
I agree with Wingnut, and I don't believe that the world is flat, but I voted for mrmatt because the con forfeited in round three. Besides, he did bring up some good/funny points.
Posted by abney317 9 years ago
abney317
You seriously think that the Earth is flat?
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
I'm sorry I missed the deadline. The term of plausibility needs to come into account though. I don't need to prove that the earth is spherical. The burden of proof is on both of us equally. If my arguments and evidence are deemed more plausible, then the perverbial scales should be tipped in my favor, and vice versa. His claim is not true just because he has refuted any notion of it being false. He has provide some reason to belief him, as do I. Whoever has done that should win the debate.
Posted by DocORock 9 years ago
DocORock
The world is not flat. Earth exists in multi-dimensionally criss-crossed planes that curve at certain points.

But it curves only on occasion. Usually when someone on the planet sneezes.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
You keep thinking that, sir...
22 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Mharman 3 months ago
Mharman
mrmatt505wingnut2280Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: we all know that the pro is just being funny by saying the earth is flat, but just for the sake of it I'm going to explain why the earth is a sphere. If you look through a telescope at the ocean while looking for a boat you won't see it until its about 80 miles from the shore, and to expand my proof even more you would see its mast/highest point before any other part of the ship, therefore concluding that the earth must me a sphere other wise you could see the whole ship from thousands of miles away.
Vote Placed by mrmatt505 8 years ago
mrmatt505
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Vote Placed by erkifish26 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by verbivore 9 years ago
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