The Instigator
pr.Daniel_Jordan
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
hellywon
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The earth is flat

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/17/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 611 times Debate No: 78774
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

Note: I'm not of the belief that the earth is flat. The reason behind this debate is to come to the bottom of a specific issue that I came across recently: there is no earth curvature upon naked eye observation of the horizon, only when using fisheye (GoPro) type cameras that create illusions, f.ex., Felix's camera created a great curvature at height of only 3-4 km.

I myself witnessed this view of a flat horizon while travelling with an airplane at 10,000 meters. I took some pictures of that and now I'm still in confusion.

This I find very puzzling and I can not find peace of mind until I receive a scientific explanation of this very specific and unexpected issue that any and every person can confirm by observing the horizon from an airplane or viewing no-fisheye onboard cameras on rockets and weather balloons.

Here I will provide a video of the phenomena, note that I am in no way supporting the uploader of this video, I use it merely for illustration: https://www.youtube.com...
The curvature of the earth, according to basic mathematical calculations, should be seen slightly at low altitudes of one or two kilometers, and seen clearly at passenger airplane height or more.

hellywon

Con

I accept. BoP on you
Debate Round No. 1
pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

I have given my proof in the first post. Reply.
hellywon

Con

Okay thank you for the BoP.
Note that I am Against that earth is flat.
You may start your case
Debate Round No. 2
pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

I have. Why don't you read my first post?
hellywon

Con

That is all? Okay then, lets get to it.
My opponents have talked about how he himself witnessed a view of a flat horizon on an airplane at 10,000 meters. This extraordinary claim needs much extraordinary evidence, and I request you upload these pictures in the next round. In order for this, we will have to upload the pictures of these claims and if they fail to do so, that makes their claim false.

Today there is a big reason to why the earth is round: It all comes down to gravity.
C1) Gravity
It is basic knowledge that the earth is round because of the gravity, which is explained more in the next paragraph.

C2)Understanding the concept of scientific research
[1] Two features of Earth that determine its shape are mass and gravity. These features are, in fact, interrelated. Mass attracts other mass, resulting in the force we call gravity. Smaller objects, such as a car or a house, have tiny gravitational forces. The amount of mass throughout Earth, however, is huge and really adds up. As Earth's mass added up from all this matter and gravitational forces increased, the matter attempted to take the most efficient shape possible: a sphere. If Earth was a cube, its corners would be farther away from its center than other points. Because gravity acts equally on everything, the corners would need to be pulled closer to the centre. Now that we have access to space, the easiest way to prove the Earth is spherical is to leave it and view it from a distance. Astronauts and space probes have done just that. Every picture of Earth ever taken shows only a circular shape, and the only geometric solid which looks like a circle from any direction is a sphere.

I will right more in the next round for I have not much character remaining

1)http://www.universetoday.com...
Debate Round No. 3
pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

Here is the picture, and I accept everything you have said in your latest post about gravity etc.

hellywon

Con

My opponents have conceded in my arguments, thus making my points stand higher in this debate. I haven't seen any refutation on my points either.

Thank you for your picture. I will like to present my piece of evidence in a picture too from this website:
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov...

Lets look at it from a perspective: Lets take the ocean as an example

If earth was supposedly flat, these boats have a potential of falling off once they reach the end of the "flat surface".
However, because earth is round and the gravity within the sphere is pulling us towards the centre it makes more sense that these boats will not fall off the surface, moreover fall off of earth with gravity. Its like a rubber band. If you pull the opposite end of the band, it comes back to you after you let go. If we jump, we are pulled back onto the ground from gravity.
There is no fancy dancy explanation for this; its simply straight forward. Gravity is the real truth on why our earth has to be round.

Every object pulls towards its centre. A flat surface has no centre. Therefore, it brings to the conclusion that our earth is a sphere.

My opponents only have pictures that back up their case. However, these pictures may not be as reliable as common knowledge. We all know gravity, unless you skipped 3rd Grade. Yes, I agree that in this picture, it is straight grounds. But the earth isn't necessarily perfectly curved. If you draw a big circle, and measure 5 mm of the surface, it is somewhat straight but a little curved. Our world is big, and we can't rely on the reason why there is "no curve". There is, but we can't see it because earth is big and the airplane you were riding on is smaller than a hair on earth. and with those measurements we can't prove through pictures, as they are inaccurate in our stances of how we see the earth and why we can't see a curve.
Debate Round No. 4
pr.Daniel_Jordan

Pro

I agree with you on everything, except that the earth is a sphere because of the picture you posted. (1) it's clearly computer animated (2) fisheye lenses can create that effect. Note, the fact that I disagree does not mean I believe the spherical earth is wrong, I only say that this is not good evidence.
hellywon

Con

My opponents conceded in all of my arguments. This prove that my points are valid and that my side should take the win.

He has only disagreed that the earth is a sphere. But if my opponents have already agreed with my arguments which is mainly that gravity makes it a sphere, this therefore makes this claim false.

They said that 1)It is clearly computer animated and 2)fish eye lenses can create the effect. This of course needs to be proven by pro but because this is the final round, I will just provide you another picture.-> http://i.stack.imgur.com... This picture shows that the reason why we can't see things that keep on disappearing from far is due to the round curvature of our world.

My opponents have not bothered to reconstruct nor refute my arguments except for my evidence, nor provided any real arguments except with the explanation from his picture and that he is "puzzled" by these. His side clearly falls because he conceded with my arguments and had weak arguments. He has not bothered to defend his side.

It is straight forward that the earth is round from gravity. There is no real explanation that earth is flat. All boats would be falling off by now if they reached towards the end.

Good debate. Apology for wasting some rounds, I was a bit confused in the beginning

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by chtwrone 1 year ago
chtwrone
Daniel, the earth is a VERY large object, and the curvature of the earth will NEVER be THAT obvious to an observer from a low view-point. It appears however, that some people can discern the curvature of the earth from relatively low view points. Maybe it's a case of seeing what you want to see, and if you want to see some curvature, then you base your observations on this premise.
There are many accounts given by people that they have no trouble at all seeing the curvature of the earth from the luxury of a passenger jet flying at 35,000ft.
If you google 'International Space Station' and select 'images', you will see many pictures showing the obvious curvature of the earth. The ISS orbits at about 400km's, so the fact that the earth's curvature is obvious should come as no surprise. What you have to do now in your mind, is imagine yourself coming out of orbit from that great height, until you're back down to sea level, and then you will realise that it is necessary to be VERY high before an obvious curvature will start to become apparent.
I'm an air traffic controller who works in a control tower and I have seen on many occasions the contrails of aircraft cruising at over 30,000ft. Many of these aircraft are flying a flight path that is approximately 100 miles away and perfectly straight, and are flying tangentially to my viewpoint from either left to right or right to left. Sometimes these contrails persist for hundreds of miles and it's VERY obvious that these contrails have curvature (I have put a ruler up to them). You might propose that these aircraft are either climbing or descending, which might account for the curved contrails, but when looking at my radar screen, I can confirm by the aircraft's radar display, that it's height is unchanged whilst it's in long-range cruise mode.
To anybody that even remotely thinks the earth is flat, please abandon this fantasy, it's utter rubbish.
Posted by pr.Daniel_Jordan 1 year ago
pr.Daniel_Jordan
Chtwrone, flat earthers say planets are spherical, but that our earth is not a planet.
Posted by chtwrone 1 year ago
chtwrone
One celestial phenomena that can't be explained in the flat-earth model, is that if the earth is flat, how is it possible that it can cast a curved shadow over the moon during a lunar eclipse? The simple answer is that it's impossible to do so.
Posted by hellywon 1 year ago
hellywon
Either way, you have still conceded with my argument.

Good day to you, best wishes to your other debates
Posted by pr.Daniel_Jordan 1 year ago
pr.Daniel_Jordan
You state in your last argument that I have disagreed with the idea that the earth is a sphere, when I have clearly said in my last and first post that I do not.
Posted by hellywon 1 year ago
hellywon
Your welcome
Posted by Cook123 1 year ago
Cook123
Lol Con wasted the first 2 rounds
Posted by pr.Daniel_Jordan 1 year ago
pr.Daniel_Jordan
What.. my picture disappeared, can't see it.
Posted by pr.Daniel_Jordan 1 year ago
pr.Daniel_Jordan
Like I said.. I don't believe in the flat earth :-)
Posted by Kozu 1 year ago
Kozu
How about a map of flat earth?
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