The Instigator
mentalist
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Italkalot
Con (against)
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The electoral college makes the popular vote meaningless in presidential elections.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 475 times Debate No: 77235
Debate Rounds (5)
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mentalist

Pro

The popular vote is meaningless during presidential elections. As most voters are unaware of this, the media publicizes these farcical popular elections as though they decide who will become president. In fact, the president is more selected than elected and the electoral process is just to make the election appear to be legitimate. shared BoP Opponent must prove that the popular vote is integral in the election process for the presidency.
Italkalot

Con

First I would like to thank you for bringing a subject like this to the front page, It's an extremely interesting one and I look forward to hearing what you have to say,

First of all, lets go through a brief overview of the electoral college. It is a group of people, not a physical place as many believe it is, of 538 men and women who as you said elect our president. Now, These men and women are chosen by their respective political parties in state party elections. The number of electors a state hold represents the number of people who live in said state, for example California has the most at 55 and Alaska the least at 3. With that said, lets move into history

The electoral college was first established along with the constitution. When on the topic of electing the leader of their new country, many argued that congress should be given the sole right to elect. However, many saw that as an opportunity for the government to ignore what the people have to say. Basically contradicting everything the had just recently accomplished. So their was a heated debate, should congress vote, or should the people vote. A compromise was met, and along came the Electoral college.

Now that we know more about the college, I would like to point out the popular vote. Yes the media does indeed make elections a firestorm, showing those maps splattered in red and blue announcing the votes as they come in. it's quite entertaining to watch, but it does make you think about our voice in the electoral process. Do we even matter? You will argue no, whereas I will argue yes. Based on these points

1.) Politicians would have no power if the public did not like them, therefore they rely heavily on public voting
2.) Electorates are supposed to base their votes on the votes of the people they represent, and 26 states in the country have laws making sure that electorates do their job
3.) If the popular vote didn't matter, the media wouldn't make it as big as it is today.
4.) The Electoral College is a well established division of our government, and does it's job quite well.

Sources:
http://www.archives.gov...:/
/www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2012/11/defending_the_electoral_college.htmlal-register/electoral-college/electors.html#selection
Debate Round No. 1
mentalist

Pro

I thank my opponent for their participation.

I will begin by addressing the disagreements that I have with my opponent's overview of the electoral college. At its heart, the amount of electoral votes each state would have in the electoral college involved a compromise regarding the peculiar and ambiguously handled issue of slavery. This agreement has come to be known as the 3/5 compromise. Each slave would count as 3/5 of a person in the states' population. Under the proposed Constitution, population would ultimately determine three matters:

(1) How many members each state would have in the House of Representatives.
(2) How many electoral votes each state would have in presidential elections.
(3) The amount each state would pay in direct taxes to the federal government. [1]

It sould be noted that this devaluation of human life can be directly linked to the "'Black' lives matter" movement that is occuring in the U.S. in the present day. Meaning, since the lives of many melaninated people were devalued from the foundation of the U.S., the institution of slavery eventually morphed into the institutional racism that the country has yet to truly address or repair. In fact, "...the "compromise" that was reached set the stage for a flood of Jim Crow laws and racial terrorism..." [2] To this day, long waits and voter I.D laws disproportionately affect minority voters who are mostly melaninated. While race is a social construct with no validity, racism has been and continues to be used by the opulent elite as a tool to foster discord, create scapegoats and play a game of divide and conquer amongst the masses. Racism also serves to distract the mass' attention away from the unequal distribution of and lack of access to the resources and wealth in the U.S..

In regard to the modern electoral college being effective, many would say the fiasco of the 2000 presidential election proves its inadequacy. Many may recall the dimpled chad debates from the Bush vs Gore election that had conflicting results from the electoral college and the popular vote.

"Do we even matter?"

My opponent intends to support the validity of the popular vote on the grounds of these 4 points:

"1.) Politicians would have no power if the public did not like them, therefore they rely heavily on public voting
2.) Electorates are supposed to base their votes on the votes of the people they represent, and 26 states in the country have laws making sure that electorates do their by CinemaP-1.1c" href="../../The-electoral-college-makes-the-popular-vote-meaningless-in-presidential-elections./1/#97723953"> job
3.) If the popular vote didn't matter, the media wouldn't make it as big as it is today.
4.) The Electoral College is a well established division of our government, and does it's by CinemaP-1.1c" href="../../The-electoral-college-makes-the-popular-vote-meaningless-in-presidential-elections./1/#48981783"> job quite well."

I will now address each of these points individually.

"...Politicians would have no power..."

Politicians, especially in underprivileged and underserved communities, are rarely seen or heard from unless it is election time. This is even more true when one considers that the government is a corporatocracy and most politicians are beholden to lobbyist and special interest groups that speak with bucks instead of ballots. In fact, many do not vote due to feelings of mistrust and/or apathy toward the current political format.

"...Electorates are supposed to base their votes...26 states..."

Electorates are supposed to base their votes on the votes of those they represent, yet, they are not required to agree with the popular vote. As stated, the 2000 presidential election was an illustration of Murphy's law that attests to the possibility of disagreement between popular and electoral votes.

"...If the popular vote didn't matter, the media..."

I almost hope that this is an attempted set-up laid by my opponent - otherwise, it is laughable. The media is laiden with propaganda and the major networks are owned and manipulated by big business. What good is a show if it's not believable. However, at the end of the day most know it's all smoke and mirrors.

"...The Electoral College is a well established..."

I have already addressed the establishment of the electoral college.

Another problem with the electoral college is how it's vote valuation system makes some states more valuable to win than others. This often causes some states to be virtually ignored by the politicians because their votes are either taken for granted or the states themselves are not considered to be valuable enough to visit. I am sure many would be more active and less apathetic toward voting if the popular vote was made the true qualifier for the presidency and there were more than 2 major parties to choose from. Many would like to vote independent, yet, they realize that the winner is decided by his price more than his policy. A popular vote would not end corruption, bias, or institutional racism. However, it could allow for marginalized voters to have a louder voice in the process.

http://www.crf-usa.org... [1]

http://www.vice.com... [2]

Italkalot

Con

Italkalot forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
mentalist

Pro

mentalist forfeited this round.
Italkalot

Con

Italkalot forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
mentalist

Pro

mentalist forfeited this round.
Italkalot

Con

Italkalot forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
mentalist

Pro

As my opponent did not support his argument, I urge the reader to vote pro.

Italkalot

Con

Italkalot forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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