The Instigator
justiceandtruth
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
AbandonedSpring
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The emancipation of slaves did not truly free them

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/18/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,052 times Debate No: 63451
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

justiceandtruth

Pro

Whoever is ready to debate
AbandonedSpring

Con

Hello, thanks for starting this debate. I would like to start my argument by stating that while the slaves were not completely freed by the Emancipation proclamation, it allowed a beacon of light to shine through the ill-treated human beings, who were abused beyond the regular human mind is capable of imagining. Freedom can not be put on a scale, therefore to say that the slave were not truly freed by a bill that was not designed to free them all. Rather, the bill was created to inspire. The emancipation proclamation freed northern slaves, however southern slaves were not feed. This in part was due to the fact that the south did not recognize them selves as America. Therefore, the emancipation proclamation would not have effected the southern slaves. In the north, slaves were truly free, but at that point it was not a war on slavery- it was a war on racism. This would lead to landmark supreme court cases such as Brown v. Board.
In the south, Slaves were eventually freed because of the emancipation proclamation- just not as sudden as we would have liked.
I would now like to define freedom as:" the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc."
And I would also like to define Human rights as: "Rights that belong to an individual as a consequence of being human."
Under this definition, the slaves were technically free. However, it would not be until later that amendments like the 12th, 13th, and 14th, which established fundamental rights to African Americans would be established. These amendments would give no freedoms- but rather Human Rights.

Definition 1: http://dictionary.reference.com...
Definition 2: http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Debate Round No. 1
justiceandtruth

Pro

Thank you very much for responding and God Bless you. Now on to the debate haha. I believe while the emancipation proclamation absolved the viscous bond between slave and master, the form of slavery evolved into systemic systematic form of policies and fundamental structure that refused the slaves of true freedom. This is why I offer a counter definition of freedom being "the power to determine action without restraint." So, back in the inception of slavery, slave masters had to kill the slaves to discipline them which was not very cost effective. After years of futile effort slave owners called for the assistance of the fierce Willie Lynch. This is were we get the term " lynching". Willie Lynch had a diabolical method of dealing with slaves. "Kill" the mind leave the body. Destroy any bonds that exist between the slaves to keep them from joining together to keep them weak and controlled. His methods worked all to well. After slavery was over, the slaves went right back to the plantations to return to the daily grind. If any now freed african american sought to rise above his current state lynch mobs and the kkk would be right there to tear him down. Education to freed black's was very limited which ultimately limited the career oppurtunities these freedmen could pursue. Eugenics ravaged "white" thought to try and prove that blacks were inferior to white's. The saddest part about it is that we as black's were more valuable as slaves then most of us are today. Back then we were producers but now we are just consumer nearly trapped in a perpetual cycle.

http://dictionary.reference.com...
AbandonedSpring

Con

Since the counter definition that was given was not proved to be better in this situation, my definitions still stand. I would like to go through your points and then analyze the major flaws.

I will section your argument into several different sections, and order them alphabetically.

Section A. You said, "slave masters had to kill the slaves to discipline them which was not very cost effective", however slave masters never killed slaves purposely for discipline. This would be pointless, and economically stupid. Most of the time, the only punishment was given through whips, and beatings. I do not believe that any of the arguments given in section A pertain to the topic, but I will move on anyways.

Section B. There was a lot of talk about lynching, and it's history, however I would like to point out that the Emancipation Proclamation never said anything about lynching, so this argument is also irrelevant. This section also talked about The separation from body and mind. However, this is more in line with torture, which is a legal action of many governments today, therefore, this is not necessarily a violation of freedom under my definition, but rather an issue of human rights.

Section C. In this section, you said, "Back then we were producers but now we are just consumer nearly trapped in a perpetual cycle." I understand this to be true, and it is very unfortunate. Perhaps the worst of all is how many people now a days feel like African Americans would be better off still as slave.

I would like to state that you did not mention the Emancipation Proclamation, or how it pertained to freedom, and therefore you abstained to the topic.
Thank you for this time to speak, I have finished speaking for round 2.
Debate Round No. 2
justiceandtruth

Pro

I said explicitly,"I believe while the emancipation proclamation absolved the viscous bond between slave and master, the form of slavery evolved into systemic systematic form of policies and fundamental structure that refused the slaves of true freedom." So I did mention the emancipation proclamation which takes away your final argument about how abstained from the resolution as a whole.

So I will start off with the definition argument. I see as you have given no scenario in which your definition should take precedence, I gave a situation in which slavery has moved from physical to mental meaning that freedom in the form of making decisions free from restraint has not been met which defaults to pro in terms of voting because African Americans are slaves to a perpetual cycle.

Response to A you corroborated my point that masters were killing slaves so they needed a new method to control slaves. Think about it whipping would bring the slave to anger and would eventually lead the slave to rise up against his master. However whipping was used as a method of discipline the masters had to break the slave to ensure that the whipping not be brought back upon them in the form of violence. It pertains to the topic because we are discussing freedom this just serves as an inception of mental bondage which is used as a foundation for evidence in my case.

Response to B - I never said that the emancipation had anything to do with lynching .I brought up lynching as another liaison from argument to my overall main point. The methods lynch used ultimately over time left slaves incapable to think autonomously on their own. It is very relevant just wait and see

You supported my point that African Americans were more valuable then than they are now. Let me tie all these loose ends together to make a seamless argument. Slaves were broken on the plantations. After the emancipation proclamation was issued freed slaves returned right back to the plantations. Do you think that they wanted to, it was not because they wanted to, it was because they had to. Think about, freedmen who have to return back to the plantation to continue their meager existence only with some amendment declaring their freedom. Does that sound like freedom to you? A limited amount of options to continue the form of slavery in a more discrete way. This new form of slavery will need more than an emancipation to set us free this time. It will take enlightenment. This is why the emancipation did not truly free the slaves.

Good Round
AbandonedSpring

Con

One line throughout an entire speech is hardly enough to support an argument, however that situation still does not prove your point, and therefore, is irrelevant. Yet again.

About your first point: I do not believe that "whipping would bring the slave to anger and would eventually lead the slave to rise up against his master. " The point of the whippings and beatings was to break the slaves down mentally, and to fully brainwash them into believing they were in superior simply because of skin color. In no way did the slave masters ever beat a slave so the salve would revolt. This is a ridiculous claim.

Moving on to your second point: This point is irrelevant because the first lynch ever recorded happened well over 20 years after slavery was abolished. On top of this, I still do not see how this relates to the overall topic of the Emancipation Proclamation.

Finally, your third contingency: The north was fairly shy on plantations, so when the Emancipation Proclamation was passed, the former slaves did not have very many places to go, and the majority of them were not going to go back to the place they had been beaten, and starved for all of their lives. You also failed to recognize that the slaves were technically not forced to go back to plantations, therefore this argument does not disprove my points, rather it disproves yours.

The emancipation proclamation provided a beacon of hope for slaves trapped in the south, and it freed slaves in the north. The beacon of hop would later be the reason pecan pie the 12th, 13th, and 14th amendment were passed, which would ultimately be the reason why the emancipation proclamation 'freed' the slaves.

Thanks you for participating, and thanks for judging this debate!
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Craighawley215 2 years ago
Craighawley215
OK, here it goes:
"The emancipation proclamation freed northern slaves, however southern slaves were not feed."
Wrong. The Emancipation Proclamation did not free Union slaves. The actual text of the document specifically states in the first paragraph that it applies to states in rebellion.

"In the north, slaves were truly free, but at that point it was not a war on slavery- it was a war on racism."
Wrong again. Slaves were not free in the Union until after the 13th Amendment was passed. Treatment may have been better in some very specific cases, but the truth is that the Union depended on slavery and the cheap labor it provided.

"This would lead to landmark supreme court cases such as Brown v. Board."
You literally just jumped from 1863 to 1954, bypassing over the 13th amendment in 1864, which is the real piece of legislation that freed ALL slaves.

"In the south, Slaves were eventually freed because of the emancipation proclamation- just not as sudden as we would have liked."
Slaves were freed because of the 13th Amendment, and arguably still don't receive truly equal treatment, so if your argument is that the Emancipation Proclamation is the key turning point, then you are wrong. If your argument is that after the slaves were freed, the black community still faced inequality, then you are right, but that didn't stop in 1954 with Brown VS Board, so you are still wrong.
Posted by AbandonedSpring 2 years ago
AbandonedSpring
Which is was I argued dude. You obviously didnt read it
Posted by Craighawley215 2 years ago
Craighawley215
Actually, you were both wrong. The Emancipation Proclamation did not legally free anybody. It didn't address slavery in the Union states, and it had no power outside of the Union. It was a United States document "freeing" slaves, in the Confederate States, where US legislation had no jurisdiction. Passing the Emancipation Proclamation was really just a public relations stunt that attempted to improve race relations, so that the Union war efforts could continue to benefit from the slave labor in the Union, while sending a message of goodwill to slaves in the Confederacy. It didn't actually achieve anything. You are thinking of the 13th amendment.
Posted by AbandonedSpring 2 years ago
AbandonedSpring
Feel free to start a debate about this issue with me. Otherwise your arguments remain invalid
Posted by LouNi 2 years ago
LouNi
so why not going far back than that, why were the black enslaver at the first place ? in order to answer the question, the fault was mainly theirs, as long as a nation doesn't have any protection it will be invaded; consider what is happening in the middle east; those are the actual slaves now. so if it was their fault then, it's their concern to meet their freedom.
Posted by AbandonedSpring 2 years ago
AbandonedSpring
Okay, thanks for the tip. And why yes, if we were to go back and time and observe a lot of things, we would have more problems then before. But because slavery does not legally exist in America anymore, we cannot use todays logic to observe it. We have to put ourselves in the shoes of our ancestors to fully* understand the issue.
Posted by LouNi 2 years ago
LouNi
well, my objection is that, considering the era we live in, if we go deep into slavery we will have a problem with the concept it self more than the blacks; so slavery now doesn't apply only on the blacks, but to all the world, if possible provide us with your definition of slavery in this era. thanks
Posted by AbandonedSpring 2 years ago
AbandonedSpring
I can define however I please, so long as it supports my argument. If he wishes, then he can object to my definitions
Posted by LouNi 2 years ago
LouNi
well, I wouldn't call that SLAVERY by definition, by it might be that it's slavery by another name, and yet, as far as the we are concerned, nowadays, slavery doesn't connote the black population; different people are enslaved for different purposes; to be brief and sharp; emancipation had to occur what ever the circumstances are, politics has its own ways and its own objectives.
Posted by justiceandtruth 2 years ago
justiceandtruth
to debate whether they are truly free
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