The existence of the christian god.
If you believe in god, your probably wrong. Just kidding. But why do you believe. Is it because you have been touched by the lord, or is it because that is how you were raised. I was raised in a loosely catholic family, and I consider myself lucky to have seen the truth. I have a love of debate, and I want this to be a clean fight,
Rule 1. Be smart,if your not going to use facts, don't bother debating with me.
Rule 2. Don't be hateful. Be respectful of my opinion, and i will be respectful of yours.
Rule 3. Have an open mind. Although most religous people don't (just kidding), i hope that you will be able to see my arguments and be able to change your opinion, either greatly or slightly.
Rule 3. Don't repeat yourself, use multiple facts, and opinions from multiple sources
Rule 5. Use good sources, YouTube, believe it or not, is actually a good source, if you can dig through it all, wikipedia is not, anybody can right anything.
Thats the rules, good luck. And by the way, i am not, atheist, or agnostic exactly. I am a little of both, i believe there is no god, just like there is no bigfoot, but if your brought evidence, i would believe, i just do not right now.
My argument will be against the existance of god, preferably a christian god.
- Falcities, Contradictions, and Atrocities of the Bible
- Other Relgions
-God's Answering Machine
-The law of thermodynamics
Falcities, Contradictions, and Atrocities of the Bible
First of, the bible is a mess, because it was written by uneducated desert folk in middle east. Not by god. If it were written by god, don't you think it would be legible, considering he is omniscient. The bible, is a lie, no offence, but if you read it, you would know. Here is a few
EXODUS 8: 6-7 God sent a plague of frogs which covered the land.
EXODUS 8:16 God sent a plague of gnats.
EXODUS 8:24 God sent a swarm of flies.
EXODUS 9:5 God killed all of the Egyptian livestock with a plague.
EXODUS 9:10 God sent a plague of festering boils on the people and animals.
EXODUS 9:22-25 God sent a hail storm to Egypt, striking man and animal, stripping the land.
EXODUS 12: 29 God killed the first-born in every Egyptian home that wasn’t marked with lamb’s blood.
LEVITICUS 26:27-29 God threatened hostility, punishing people for their sins "seven times over," making them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters.
this is basically the whole book of joshua
JOSHUA 6:21-27 Under God’s direction, Joshua destroyed the entire city of Jericho…men, women, teenagers and infants…with the edge of the sword. The soldiers then pillaged the silver, gold, bronze and iron for God and burned the city. (PS: this is like the whole book of Joshua.)
Obviously a all loving god would not condone this, although it would be perfectly fine 2000 years ago in the middle east. So maybe there is a god, but is he really worth all this praise, although that is a whole other debate. The bible is a bloodbath, and it is filled with Rape, Murder, Theft, and all other manners of things. But the Bible is also clumsy contradicting itself left and right. Here are a few examples:
Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
Jeremiah 3:12: ... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever.
Jeremiah 17:4: Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
An omnipotent being required…rest?
Genesis 2:16-17 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
God placed temptation in the direct path of his two naïve children and allowed them to be tempted by the serpent (Genesis 3: 1-7), resulting in a single mistake that would contaminate hundreds of billions with a sin nature worthy of eternal torture?
But i am running out of words so on to the next topic.
What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:
The answer is nothing.
Next, you claim that a God who is loving would not kill people like he did, and send plagues upon them like he did in the times of Moses. Psalms chapter 89 v. 14 says this, "Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face." NKJV. To explain this verse, if you were a judge, and someone was convicted of a crime, would you punish them? Only if you were a just judge. To God, disobedience is an act of sin, and punishable by eternal death. He repeatedly gives mankind an opportunity at life by giving his only Son to die on the cross.
In Joshua, the people of Jericho were wicked in God's eyes. They were disobedient, and disobeyed God's every law. God used the Israelites as a means of punishment.
Now on your seeming contradictions, in Genesis chapter 1 it is obvious that the trees were created before man. But did you happen to read the very beginning of verse 8 of Genesis chapter 2? It says this, "The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Edenand there He put the man whom He had formed." Also, earlier in this chapter, in verses 5-7, "before any plant of the field was in the the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground, but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the earth. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground..." so as it shows here, it is not a contradiction, vegetation clearly came out of the earth BEFORE man. I am sure that what you are referring to as the contradiction appers in verse 9; "And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food." This simply means that He made the trees grow, not that He created them after man. And you obviously did not notice the beginning of chapter 2 of Genesis, verse 1. It says this, "Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished." The Bible does not contradict itself. It says at the BEGINNING of the chapter that THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE FINISHED.
If you would like to know more, debate further.
First off, I wanted to point out your lack of evidence, but i understand that you had a limited timespan, i got done with mine quite late. The first point i would like to make is that, since i was running out of letters, i want expand on my last argument.
The Law of thermodynamics
"This commenly used argument by christians states that nothing can from from nothing, it must come from something. So however the universe started it, what started that? The answer, we don't know, but if you try to say god, then i ask you, where did god come from." Taken from my original argument, i wish to expand upon this, since i did not have a lot of room to finish it. This law, states that nothing can come from nothing, everything has something that caused it. So, when an atheist, or other forms of an atheist, state that they believe the Big Bang created the universe, there christian counterpart would say then what started the big bang. They would then state that the Big Bang must ahve had some sort of ignition, E.G. god. They would also say that God is the beggining of everything, and that before he created the universe, there was only him. Well, this law is a two way street. If you would state that everything must have a beginning, then so must god. So, a common christian argumnent debunked.
Now onto my rebuttal.
You said, and i quote
"First of all, you say that the Bible was written by uneduated men in the Middle East. That is not true, because the book of Luke was written by Luke, who in fact, was a doctor. Doctors are educated, aren't they? Also, the Bible is legible. It has not even changed through the years. True, grammatical editing to fit the times was in order, but no matter how many versions of the Bible you go to, the whole story is the same." First off, your argument of Luke is flawed. Luke was a doctor, true. But would you say that a doctor back then would be educated, sure maybe more so than the average camel herder(just kidding), but still not very smart, and if the bible is the word of the lord, dont you think it would at least be up to today's grammatical standards, if not better. I agree with you when you say that crimes must be punished. But, is disobedience worthy of death. If your son, whether or not you have one, disobeyed you, would you inflict any of the deadly plagues upon him. As for Jericho, maybe the city was wicked. But was every person in that town wicked. Were the mothers of infants wicked, were the infants wicked, or the small children, or the men who worl all day to support them. Did they deserve to die because a good percent of the population was wicked. Should we carpet bomb Baghdad just to kill all Al Quaeda. And should the occupy wall street, or even further back, the african americans whom walked to washington, be killed for civil disobedience.
By the logic of the bible, yes they should.
As for your rebuttal of the contradictions, i found it hard to read. A good part of what you say makes no sense. i give you the actual bible verses, and you say they are false? You may give verses supporting that vegetation came before the earth, but that does not change the fact it still says in one verse man came before the trees.
For my closing statement, i will say that, while your arguent was compelling, and you did not have much time, you still did not cover my first point entirely, you at least could have done that.
I would also ask that before your rebbuttal, you adress the rest of my points, so as to get you entire opinion.
Now you say that God has an answering machine. Of course he does...Himself. Now in the case of prayer, sometimes the answer is "No." You can't think of God like a vending machine for answered prayers. God knows what is best for us, and sometimes we need to face things like cancer, and usually when people come through it, they are stronger(emotionally) than before. Also, God can use things like cancer to bring people to Himself. Now you, not being a Christian, you pray to God to heal every case of cancer on the planet, have no faith in Him. Also, God does not always answer it in the way that YOU think is best. Pain and suffering was a part of disobeying God.
Now, you say that there is no evidence of anything happening like a worldwide flood. That is not true. There is evidence everywhere in the fossil layers of water action. Also, explorers have found what they believe to be Noah's Ark. There are multiple satellite photos that show a large wooden thing sticking out from the snow, which is the exact shape of what the Ark was believed to be. Next, why would God speak to modern man through television? It is unnecessary because all we need is in the Bible. The Resurrected Jesus did in fact appear to many people. According to Matthew chapter 28 verses 5-9,
"5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him."
You say the Bible is provably incorrect. When the scientists claimed the earth was flat, the Bible said this in Isaiah 40:22
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
Then you say that the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God. He does respond. It is better for believers to be in Heaven than on earth, because Heaven is perfect. Hitler did die, he paid for his actions with death.
AIDS? It is a penalty of disobey commandment #7. "You shall not commit adultery." AIDS is a direct result of sex outside of marriage.
In fact, this shows that God is real, not fake, and not a huge hole.
Alright, so the law of thermodynamics states that nothing can come from nothing. This is still the case with God. Tell me one thing, where does the universe end? When did it start? You can't answer that, because we do not know when it started. We know that God has been around forever, he has no beginning and no end. Now don't get me wrong and try to use that against me, because it is impossible to imagine something that goes on forever and ever, and has never had a beginning. This is why most people who don't believe in God use this argument. It is not possible for them to imagine a being who has always been. Not EVERYTHING had to have a beginning. Does the universe have a beginning? Does it have an end? If so, what is at the end of the universe? The same applies to God. He does not have a beginning or an end.
Next, you say the Bible would be up to today's grammatical standards. One thing you must understand is that the Bible is completely understandable with the grammar that it has. Also, it was put into writing roughly 2000 years ago. In that time, the grammar would be completely different. People talked differently, and wrote differently. The Bible was written in a way that the people in that time could understand it. As the translations have come down through the ages, the Bible has been edited to some degree to fix grammatical errors. However it was not extensive enough editing to change the story, but enough to make it readable by the humans in this age.
Next you ask if disobedience is worthy of death. So take this into account, God is perfect. He has no faults. He put into place 10 Commandments that he says to obey. Here is an analogy to help you think. The 10 Commandments are like a chain. If you break one commandment, or one link, the chain breaks. The 10 Commandments are the chain holding above eternal death. It is impossible not to break one, because of our sinful nature. That means we would automatically die for eternity. This is why God sent a way for us to be saved; Jesus Christ died on the cross. Through Him we have the opportunity to live eternally. God is offering us the opportunity to live eternally, yet some reject it, push it away and don't take life. God makes a way, and it is up to us to take the gift. You mention Jericho. Jericho was a wicked city, however, there were some who repented, such as Rahab. God gave his mercy to her, and she and her family were spared from destruction. Then you say that according to my reasoning(paraphrased), everyone who commits a small crime against the government should die. That isn't true. Sometimes the government is in the wrong, even though the way the people protest may not be right.
Now you're saying that what I say doesn't make sense. Is that because you don't want it to make sense? It makes perfect sense if you think about it. Also, your questions reflect that what I say makes perfect sense to you. I also never said that the Bible verses were false, you were just using them in the wrong context. I in fact said that God made the vegetation GROW while in the beginning of chapter 2, it said the heavens AND the earth were FINISHED. What part of that don't you understand? It clearly says that everything on the earth was FINISHED before God created man.
For my closing statement, I would ask you to please show respect for my beliefs by capitalizing God, Lord, Bible, and showing proper respect for the African American people; you failed to capitalize on the a's in their title. And please watch your spelling and grammar, because that may make you lose points in the final run.
No offence, but your argument seems bigoted. You said and i quote "The reason God hasn't been dismissed is because He is real. If he wasn't real he would have been dismissed just like the others. It's just like a court. If a false story is told, it is dismissed as NONSENSE. If a true story is told, it is kept as truth. Same case with God." This isn't an argument. If anything, you helped me. What makes your god true, you give no evidence, you just give faith. And that is my argument, they believe just as much as you do, maybe more, and you just say they are wrong. That is offensive, you have no proof they are false, unless you want to use my proof, which would hurt yourself.
As for your next point, when i say answering maching, first off, im using a metaphor. I understand the answer would be no sometimes. But it is no all of the time. When have your prayed for something, other than a simple things, something big and important, and it happened. And i don't mean that a football teams wins a game or you get a day off work.
As per your so called "evidence" ever heard of continental shift. It says the way the Earth looks today is not the way it looked thousands of years ago. So obviously the water would be in the soil, besides soil is porous. Meaning has wholes ,that rain leaks through. The so called ark, was a hoax, if you read the news, as per the Bible, if that is all you need, then read it again. Because if you go by the Bible, if you work on Sunday, you are put to death, and if you disobey him, you will eat the flesh of your sons and daughters. Leviticus 26:27-29. As per the ressurected Jesus, the Bible is an unrealible source, and should not be used. Concrete evidence, not words written by some goatherd. As per you so called responses, first off, you ignored the Holocaust, and how is AIDS proof of God? Also, I don't remember saying this "Next, you say the Bible would be up to today's grammatical standards." I said it was uneducated words. Supposedly it was written by God, don't you think, being onniscient, it would be smart? From here you start to make some sense, and i can't argue your chain metaphor, although i don't agree with it. I will give you that. But as for this "Now you're saying that what I say doesn't make sense. Is that because you don't want it to make sense? It makes perfect sense if you think about it." Its not because i want it too, it is because it doesn't. I shouldn't have to think about it just to understand.
For my closing argument, I would ask that you please show respect for my beliefs, by not assuming you are right, at least humoring me. Notice how I say things from the Bible and other such stories like they happened, yet you just tell me im wrong and don't even humor me.
JeffPhilips forfeited this round.