The Instigator
EricJohnson
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
tvellalott
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The fallen (from transformers 2) can defeat anyone

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,306 times Debate No: 30042
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

EricJohnson

Pro

Rule 1: You can pick your character (you cannot chose God) but only one character
Rue 2: You choose where the battle takes place
Rule 3: The definition of defeat is to render someone ineffective
Rule 4: The fallen is at his prime. In the movie, he wasn't fully powered because he was sitting for over 15 thousand years and the energon harvester was feeding him for less than 2 minutes.
Rule 5: If you forfeit a round, you lose.
tvellalott

Con

Ohai!

My opponent and I are to engage in a one-on-one battle between any two characters throughout fiction and non-fiction (or at least I think that's what's happening here...)

I will be using Superman (Earth-One), also known as Pre-Crisis Superman.
While not as powerful as Superman Prime (who is basically a God and thus violates the only stipulation my opponent made in round one) he is still completely ridiculous power wise.
Here are some sources:


My opponent has selected The Fallen, aka Megatronus Prime
http://tfwiki.net...

Superman (Earth-One)
http://dc.wikia.com...(Earth-One)

Let's go.
Debate Round No. 1
EricJohnson

Pro

The Fallen is an enemy like no other.
1) Half of Superman's abilities are useless in a fight with the Fallen. His super-speed, heat-vision, and freezing-breath are no longer of value due to the Fallen's impressive tolerance to temperature and his ability to teleport (and hide in different universes). Their matched abilities is flight. Superman's only advantage is he has a higher degree of invulnerability though when the Fallen can take them to Krypton. The Fallen only weakness is his weak armor under his torso. I don't know how strong Superman is but the Fallen can throw a 2.5 ton pyramid block as if it was a rock.
2) Scenario 1: At any time, the Fallen can teleport to Krypton, acquire a decent amount of Kryptonite, teleport inside Superman's body, and watch him die.
Scenario 2: He could open a space bridge to teleport Superman to Krypton, leaving him as powerless a normal human being.
tvellalott

Con

INTRODUCTION
I'd first like to say that I have taken advantage of my opponent in taking this debate and for that I am sorry. It will be considered newb sniping by many. However, as is my normal stance on such things, I left this debate for a while for someone else to accept and when they did not, I was obligated to accept. I hope that my opponent learns something from this debate and in future doesn't leave the resolution so open-ended that I was able to select Pre-Crisis Superman who is ridiculously overpowered and should be banned from all such debates.

OK, with my pre-emptive apologies out of the way, lets begin.

COMPARISON
Now, all resources I have visited portray Megatronus Prime, the Fallen, as an extremely powerful being within his respective canon.
My opponent lists his abilities as this: "Teleportation, Telekinesis, Time-control, Extreme resistance to temperature, and non-biological."
Based on the sources I could find (the foremost of which I gave the link to in the first round this is quite accurate, save for 'time control' for which I can find no reference, and I will allow all of these cited abilities to fly. Additionally, I will allow time control is my opponent can cite a resource that says he has this ability.
My opponent has cited the Transformers 2 movie as the source for his particular version of The Fallen, which will be important later.

Superman needs no introduction. When powered by the solar energy of a yellow sun, he is among the most powerful beings in the DC universe. See my above source for a full list of his abilities.

THE FIGHT
My opponent foolishly didn't specify where this fight was happening, so I assumed it would happen on the most likely planet these two could possibly meet; namely Earth.
We also haven't specified the conditions of this fight. It's either one with prior knowledge or it's not.
Based on the fact Megatronus Prime seems aware of Superman's weakness to kryptonite, I'm assuming it's the former.

If that is the case, Superman will be aware that all he has to do to defeat The Fallen is destroy his 'Spark Core' which is located in his chest. Given the fact Optimus Prime was capable of doing that and he obviously isn't as powerful or as fast as Superman (since Superman is capable of moving entire planets out of their solar systems) this will most likely happen within moments of the fight beginning.

REBUTTALS
Scenario 1) The Fallen can teleport to Krypton and acquire Kryptonite.
He could do this, yes. Except that Krypton is destroyed.
In order for his acquire Kryptonite he would need to be aware of which alternate universe Krypton still exists, open a portal, go through the portal, teleport to Krypton, acquire kryptonite, open another portal, return to Earth and then use it. Superman will not allow The Fallen time for this to happen. He simply flies at The Fallen faster than the speed of light and double fist flying punches him through the chest, destroying his spark core.

Of course Superman can also protect himself from kryptonite with lead, there's that.

Scenario 2) The Fallen takes Superman to a red sun solar system and then crushes him.
Again, this requires him to create a space portal and then get a fully-powered Superman to submit to being taken through the portal. Superman just flies double-fisted through The Fallens chest as described above.

CONCLUSION
Megatronus is no match for Superman. If he's entire chance of victory lies in him either acquiring kryptonite or moving the battle to a red sun solar system, neither of which Superman will allow to happen.
Debate Round No. 2
EricJohnson

Pro

Introduction: This is my second debate. Therefore, I apologise for not properly conducting the debate. I am sorry that I left some details out. I allowed you to choose where the battle would start. Since you did not choose the setting, I did it for you (although the setting is regardless considering the abilities of our characters).
Both characters are aware of their opponent's abilities, strengths, and weaknesses. AGAIN! The fallen was not at his prime in Transformers 2, allowing an Optimus Prime fused with Jetfire's parts to defeat him. I am fully aware of the fact Superman can defeat Optimus Prime.

Scenario 1: The Fallen does not need to open portals although he is capable of doing so. I apologise for my ignorance of Krypton.
Scenario 2: I was not aware Superman draws his power from the Sun. The Fallen does not need to force Superman into entering a portal, he simply needs to surround Superman with portals, slowly starving him of his power source, eventually killing him.
tvellalott

Con

tvellalott forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
EricJohnson

Pro

Rule 5: If you forfeit a round, you lose.
tvellalott

Con

well, i guess i lose.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tvellalott 4 years ago
tvellalott
Damn it, how did that happen?
Posted by tvellalott 4 years ago
tvellalott
I should have proof read my second round. Dear God it's bad!
Posted by EricJohnson 4 years ago
EricJohnson
@BigSky: Strength is not the only factor in a battle. You are much stronger than a jellyfish but that's not to say you can kill a jellyfish simply because of your strength.
Posted by BigSky 4 years ago
BigSky
Superman created a house key made out of a neutron star, it weighed 500,000 tons. That would be lifting 200000 pyramid blocks at once. Superman wins.
Posted by tvellalott 4 years ago
tvellalott
The link I posted has all of Superman's abilities.
Posted by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
When in doubt, Pre-Crisis.
Posted by EricJohnson 4 years ago
EricJohnson
You must also state the abilities of your version of superman.
Abilities of the fallen: Teleportation, Telekinesis, Time-control, Extreme resistance to temperature, and non-biological.
Posted by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
I would have went with Unicron....
Posted by EricJohnson 4 years ago
EricJohnson
Please state so in the argument for round #1
Posted by tvellalott 4 years ago
tvellalott
I'm going to choose Earth-One Superman (Pre-Crisis).
No votes have been placed for this debate.