The Instigator
SitaraMusica
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
SirCrona
Con (against)
Losing
4 Points

The fetus is not part of a woman's bpdy.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
SitaraMusica
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/15/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 561 times Debate No: 65196
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

SitaraMusica

Pro

The first round is for acceptance. I saw a post from my opponant saying that the fetus is part of a woman's body, and I would like to counter this claim. The second round is for presenting your case. :D
SirCrona

Con

For starters, I would like to thank my opponent for the oppourtunity to voice my opinion. This topic is very sensitive and controversial, and I hope this will persuade a few to look at this topic like I do, perhaps even Pro.
I wish my opponent the best of luck in this venture.
Debate Round No. 1
SitaraMusica

Pro

Thank you to my opponant for the kind words. I believe that human life begins at fertilization when the organism has it's own genetic code. The zygote is formed when the male and female pronuclei fuse to form a new life. If the fetus is part of the mother's body, that means that the mother has two genetic codes, two hearts, and sometimes, a penis is the fetus is a male.
SirCrona

Con

I will begin my counterargument on Pro's first claim, "If the fetus is a part of a woman's body, then the woman will have two genetic codes, body parts, etc." This argument is flawed as well as forgivably fallacious. If I may paraphrase pro's logic: "A cell that does not have the same genetic code as an individual is not a part of that individual. Therefore, since fetal cells have different genetic codes than the mother, the fetus is not a part of the mother." This reasioning begs the question by requiring the assumption that different genes imply another organism. While it is true that the fetal genes are not identical the mothers', this does not imply the subject is another individual. For example, of all of the cells in a healthy human body, only about ten percent share the particular human's genetic code. Those cells belong to mutualistic organisms that have evolved with humans so that they and their hosts cannot survive without each other, such as digestive bacteria. Fetuses differ only slightly from these mutualistic organisms because it is even more reliant on the mother. The mother's metabolic system provides all the the nucleic acid, protiens, carbs, and lipids the fetus requires. Metabolism is defined by the merriam-webster dictionary as "the sum of the physical and chemical processes in an organism by which its material substance is produced, maintained, and destroyed, and by which energy is made available." The fetus cannot do any of these indipendently; It is contingient on the mother's metabolic system. This means that the fetus' metabolic actions are part of the mother's metabolism as a whole. A metabolism is part of the characteristics of life that all organisms have in common. Fetuses simply carry out one of the functions nescessary for life (reproduction.) Without a full, indipendent metabolism the likes of which are only gained after the fetus is no longer considered a fetus (birth) the fetus is not its own organism, but rather a part of the parent organism, the mother.
Debate Round No. 2
SitaraMusica

Pro

Thank you for responding and debating. You said that my argument that the fetus is not part of the mother's body is fallacious. I disagree respectfully. If the fetus is the same before birth as it is after birth, logic seems to say that that life should be protected. One person does not have more than one genetic system. Science says that the fetus has its own genetic system. Therefore, the fetus is not part of the mother's body. Respectfully I am asking you how the fetus can be part of the mother's body when it has its own genetic code. :)
SirCrona

Con

I apologize for being unclear in my response. I meant to say con's logic, and not his position, was flawed. My opposition stated that genetic code implied divorce of orgasmic organization, so therefore fetuses were not part of the mother's body. This line of reasoning comitted a fallacy known as "begging the question" since con failed to prove his evidence.
In the second argument, con stated that "an individual does not have more than one genetic system." I am not certain what my opposition means by "genetic system," as such a term does not exist. I will assume you mean genetic code, or DNA. I refer to my previous argument: that the genetic code of the fetus has no bearing on whether or not it is an individual organism. Here is a list of things that an organism must do in order to be considered alive by science:
1. It must be made out of cells. Fetuses do display this quality.
2. It must be able to reproduce. The fetus isn't yet developed enough to do this. The mother, however, is in the process of doing it.
3. It must display organization at a molecular, cellular, and in multicellular cases organic level. The fetal cells do this.
4. It must respond to stimuli. It is not fully understood if fetuses do this, as "kicking" in the womb and other such actions have yet to be explained. Let's mark this down as a "maybe" for fetuses.
5. It must grow and develop. Fetuses certainly do this. It almost seems like they are an individual until...
6. It must aquire and use energy. Fetuses are incapable of doing this... Alone. You see, it does indeed use energy, but it can't acquire it. The mother's metabolism digests food and water into usable forms for the fetus. The fetus is only given the chemicals to use. A perfectly rational reader must think after reading the previous sentences, "By that logic, a child that depends on its parents to feed it is not its own organism." This is not the case. The fetus cannot acquire or process those nutrients for itself via ingestion, digestion, and respiration. It only performs cellular processes inherit to all human cells and uses the nutrients it is given to grow and divide its cells. It is identical to any other human organ in this regard. It is even further different to the feeding a child analogy because the processes by which its cells are nourished are automatic. The analogy was an example of behavior, a learned response by the parents in order to maintain the life of a fellow human. The fetus being nourished by the mother is a natural part of her metabolism and not a complex set of responses. The fetus is part of a mother's metabolism, and therefore is no different from the mother's other organs. Genetic code has nothing to do with whether or not the fetus is a seperate organism, because the fact is it isnt an organism at all.
Debate Round No. 3
SitaraMusica

Pro

I have just one question: Where does science sway that the fetus is part of the mother's body?
SirCrona

Con

I believe I have already stated the answer to pro's question. "Science" is a process for studying the world. Scientific knowledge, however, is quite clear in what it defines as a "part" of something. In interest of conserving readers' time I will only restate my logic and not my evidence: The fetus does not fit the traits for an indipendant organism. It is connected to the mother's metabolism. By the definition of organism and that of metabolism, the fetus is an organ in the reproductive system and not its own organism until it is fully developed and severed from the maternal metabolic system.

In conclusion, all the logic and evidence categorizes fetuses as non-living organs of its mother until a very late stage of development. It is clear to see that my opposition is using flawed, fallacious, and flagrantly loaded logic to prove his point and personal belief and biased definitions in place of evidence. "Genes" have nothing to do with the fact that the fetus' organic structure is part of the reproductive system and not some "kind-of, sort-of, human enough baby." I hope that, even despite a few flaws, both sides are considered well and, as the saying goes, may the best man win.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Rubikx 2 years ago
Rubikx
i found a much more comical version of this debate phrased in a different way. "If i eat 1% of my body weight in nachos, am I 1% nacho?". I know this isn't totally related to the subject matter, but i just though it was an interesting way of putting the question.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
SitaraMusicaSirCronaTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: I feel like con's tangent went too far off trying to prove fetus alive, instead of being part of the woman's body. Try to stay on topic con.
Vote Placed by TK57 2 years ago
TK57
SitaraMusicaSirCronaTied
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Total points awarded:34 
Reasons for voting decision: Even tho I agree with Con, pro made a much bette4 argumnet
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
SitaraMusicaSirCronaTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's arguments were false in regards to fetuses acquiring energy, so arguments to pro. All of pro's arguments were factually accurate.