The Instigator
Randwot222
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Dude_3
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

The god of the bible exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/25/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 478 times Debate No: 31669
Debate Rounds (5)
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Randwot222

Con

The pro must defend the god of the bible, not some being that may be the creator of the universe. They can quote scripture but please don't just sling it around without a defined argument! You may start right away!
Dude_3

Pro

If you don't mind I am going to use some of my topics from other god debates I have been in.

There are 4 attributes that describe god:
1- Eternal, not involved with the flow of our time.
2- He is everywhere
3- He is All-Powerful
4- He has all knowledge

If we can prove that all of these are true in 1 force, than we can conclude that god DOES exist.

Lets start with the eternal part:
A scientist by the name of Heisenberg came to the conclusion that "quantum events" cannot be predicted. All freed electrons behave as though they are being influenced by an outside force. A force connecting two of these freed electrons was shown to be eternal and present, yet it was shown that it is not involved with the flow of our time. Nothing can go faster than light except this force.

#1 : YES, eternal force has been found!

#2 - Omnipresent

This force has been shown to connect ALL electrons. Everything (including beyond out solar system) has these electrons everywhere there is matter, so this force is also omnipresent, simple enough.

#3- Omnipotent

This one is a bit tricky, yet was proved to be true. In experiments from Russian Scientists they proved that "laser photons" knew when a DNA strand entered the vacuum, and they collected around the DNA strand. Then the photons began to change the DNA structure to what it desired. After the DNA removed and the laser turned off the photons remained in the position resembling the DNA for approx. 22 mins. Also, simply looking at the complexity of the universe, the chance that this happened simply from luck is extremely small. The chance of creating 1 planet in the entire UNIVERSE is less than 1/2^365. Much more likely is simply that god created it and, because it has been shown that energy cannot be created or destroyed by the 1st law of thermodynamics, so this eternal force must be all powerful to do this. Also in the Double slit experiment, light, a freed electron, was shown to be observant of its surroundings. It knew when it was being watched and when not.

Sidenote: seeing what the force can do on a very small scale, I can only imagine what it could do on a large scale, using all the electrons, possibly how the universe was created in 6 days.

#4- Having all knowledge

In the STI (Self Thinking Interface) Roger G. Vogelsang PROVED that this force has all knowledge.
I cannot fit all it in this because I am running out of Characters,but here is the link:

http://www.rexresearch.com......

I therefore rest my case, God is Real!

Resources:
http://www.rexresearch.com......
Debate Round No. 1
Randwot222

Con

To be truthful I am not sure where to start here. I asked for a defense of the god from the bible and not just some creator of the universe, but the pro doesn't mention anything biblical except the 6 days at the very end. This god you are defending sounds a lot more like deism than the theist personal god of the bible. (1) A deist god creates the universe and its workings, but does not take part in the personal affairs of humans and day to day life.

I am not sure if it is a problem with my browser/computer, but I cannot get your resource site to open and I need it badly based on some of your statements. I would ask you to provide more concrete sources for your claims. I will try to debate your points the best I can using the Bible since this is the god you are suppose to be defending in the first place.

Now you give four attributes that describe god, and then you go on to say that IF we can find all four of these things in one force then we can conclude god exists. I will break down these four attributes and see if they pertain to the god of the bible in the first place, then I will debate your one force that is needed to prove gods existence.

1- Eternal, not involved with the flow of our time.

This statement has several issues with it. It could mean that god has no involvement with the flow of our time, which is a problem because from the bibles view at least this cannot be true since he created it. It also begs the question why would he make the "time" that he did if it did not have any significance to him in the first place. The scripture says he created time in the first day and kinda the fourth as well.

(2)
Gen Day one
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day

Gen Day four
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So as I said above why would god if he is "Not involved in our time" create such a time. He had to make it so he could react in "time" to prayers and events accordingly. It makes sense that he would not create something that he could use himself. Now there is no way to say, if he exists, whether god is eternal or not. I have though given you an argument that he is involved in our time and it makes sense that our time has some significance to him.

2- He is everywhere

There are several quotes from the bible that show that god is not everywhere and here are a few.

(2)
Gen 3:9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 11:5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Psalms 14:2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

These show that god of the bible is not omnipresent and cannot fit that attribute. If he was everywhere he would not have to do/say these things.

3- He is All-Powerful

The god of the bible is not all powerful and a prime example of this is in this

(2)
Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

God COULD NOT drive out the inhabitants of the vally because they had chariots of iron? Its right there in the bible! Plus why doesn't he get rid of evil? Can he not do it. Why can he not do it now? Does he have to wait for his son to come back? Why this limitation? It also begs the question can a omnipotent being even exist? Could god create a task that he could not do? If he cant create that task he is not all powerful, but if he does then there is something he cannot do!

4- He has all knowledge

There are many if and then statements by god in the bible. If he is truly omnipotent then he would know what is going to happen in the future and know which course people would take. Here are some examples of god not knowing what is going to happen.

(2)
Leviticus 26
3 IF ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
4 THEN I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
14 But IF ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 And IF ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
23 And IF ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24 THEN will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

Another good excerpt is with god testing Abraham

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: FOR NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Now he knows? He didn't before?

You get the point. Here are several cases where god does not know what his people will do. He has to lay out ifs and give rewards or punishments depending on which they choose. If he knew what they were going to do then he would of said WHEN. WHEN you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them THEN I will give you rain in due season. Another great example of god not knowing what was going to happen is with adam and eve. If he is all knowing he KNEW they would eat from the tree and KNEW what was going to happen afterwards BEFORE he created them! So he either did not know what was going to happen or people worship a god who knew he was creating a failed race to begin with.

Here I have taken your "four attributes that describe god" and put the towards the god of the bible. They don't stand up at all. Now the second part of your statement is that if we find one force that has all of these attributes in it then we can call that force god. Now let me say again that even if there was such a force it has no tie whatsoever to the biblical personal god of the bible. There could be some being out there that is all knowing and all powerful but doesn't care what goes on in the universe that he created. As for your "force" that has all of these qualities in it I need some more detail and resources to back up what you say. The site you give is blank as far as I can see and the Internet has yielded me no information on the subject matter you claim. This is not a personal attack on you, I just would like some more information. Since I am running out of room I will address this force you claim has all the attributes my next turn.

Resources
(1)http://en.wikipedia.org...
(2)https://www.bible.com... ( I used KJV just so ya know :) )
Dude_3

Pro

Dude_3 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Randwot222

Con

I still look forward to hearing your response!
Dude_3

Pro

Dude_3 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Randwot222

Con

Please come back :)
Dude_3

Pro

Dude_3 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Randwot222

Con

I wish this debate had been played out, but thanks for your time!
Dude_3

Pro

Dude_3 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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