The Instigator
bigdave
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Nd2400
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

The growth of the national debt, if not stopped, will bankrupt the nation.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Nd2400
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/21/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 691 times Debate No: 105184
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (1)

 

bigdave

Pro

I am for the proposition that the growth of the national debt, if not stopped, will bankrupt the nation.
Nd2400

Con

Just wanted to say thank you Bigdave, for this opportunity to debate you on this matter.

Since you only stated your position in round one i will do the same. You said you will be pro on this matter by saying the national debt is going to make America broke. So, that leave me with being con. I will argue why the national debt will NOT make America broke, and why it just a number so politician to make policy for the added debt or to decrease the national debt.

I can see you change 3 rounds to 5 rounds. Have to say i like the move. So, i guess round 2 to round 5 will be just debating, And rebutted.

So, i guess lets get started then.... Good luck to you.
Debate Round No. 1
bigdave

Pro

In round 2 I will;
Define terms

Terms

Federal revenue is the total federal income.

Federal outlay is the total dollars spent in a year. It is defined as the total mandatory spending plus the total discretionary spending plus debt service.

Deficit is the amount of money borrowed by the feds in a year. It is the federal outlays minus the federal revenues

Debt service is the amount of money spent on interest and principal payments

Debt is the total of all the yearly federal deficits, less principal paid.

Mandatory spending is spending that is required by law. In 2017 it is $3 trillion

Discretionary spending is spending that Congress decides to spend. In 2017 it is $1.1 trillion.

---------------------

Federal revenue " The federal government takes money from taxpayers and other direct sources .

"" about 65 percent of taxes the federal government collects come from individuals. Thirty-two percent of taxes come to the government from corporations. Estate and gift taxes, sources of significant debate, account for only 1 percent of federal tax revenues." (1)

Other sources include printing money and borrowing.

Here is some 2015 information;

""In 2015, total federal revenues in fiscal year 2015 are expected to be $3.18 trillion.2 These revenues come from three major sources:
Income taxes paid by individuals: $1.48 trillion
Payroll taxes paid jointly by workers and employers: $1.07 trillion
Corporate income taxes paid by businesses: $341.7 billion,." (2)

------------------

"Mandatory Spending
Mandatory spending covers outlays that are controlled by laws other than appropriations acts. Almost all such spending is for "entitlements," for which expenditures depend on individual eligibility and participation; they are funded at whatever level is needed to cover the resulting costs. Mandatory spending has grown from about a quarter of the budget in 1962 to 60 percent in 2015 (figure 2). This is in large part because of new entitlements, including Medicare and Medicaid (both of which started in 1965), the earned income tax credit (1975), and the child tax credit (1997). In addition, rapid growth of both the elderly and disabled populations has contributed to increased Social Security and Medicare spending."(3)
It is composed of social security (37%), medicare (22%), income security (18%), medicaid (15%), veterans (4%) and other (5%).

"Discretionary Spending
Discretionary spending covers programs that require appropriations by Congress. Unlike mandatory spending, both the programs and the authorized levels of spending require regular renewal by Congress. The share of the budget going for discretionary spending has fallen from two-thirds in 1962 to about one-third now.
About half of FY 2015 discretionary spending went for defense, and most of the rest for domestic programs, including agricultural subsidies, highway construction, and the federal courts (figure 4). Only 4 percent of discretionary spending funded international activities, such as foreign aid." (4)

"Debt Service
Interest on the national debt has fluctuated over the past half century along with the size of the debt and interest rates. It climbed from 6 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 1962 to more than 15 percent in the mid-1990s, fell to about 7 percent in the early 2000s, and has fallen even more recently, as interest rates have tumbled to historically low levels. While the national debt reached a peacetime high of 74 percent of GDP in 2014 and dipped just under that level in 2015, debt service accounted for just 6 percent of federal spending in 2015." (5)
-------------------------

(1) https://www.nationalpriorities.org...
(2) Ibid
(3) http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...
(4) Ibid
(5) Ibid
Nd2400

Con

Okay round 2 you decided to go by key terms. Which is fine it just not what i really wanted to hear. Why because when your title says "The growth of the national debt, if not stopped, will bankrupt the nation". I want to know why, when and how it going to bankrupt up the nation. I know some of the key terms you mention are important such as Federal revenue, Mandatory spending, Debt service, Deficit, Discretionary spending. And yes they are important but failed to mention the WHEN part. The When the part is very important because you failed to mention how long does this deficit have to go on before it actually starts to hit the economy. Most of the experts think this deficit won't affect us too much just our kid's children, to their children and grandchildren.

The debt-to-GDP ratio is important to understand as well... "The debt-to-GDP ratio compares a country's sovereign debt to its total economic output for the year. Its output is measured by gross domestic product". (1.) https://www.thebalance.com... This ratio is used as a tool for investors, leaders, and economists. "It allows them to gauge a country's ability to pay off its debt. A high ratio means a country isn't producing enough to pay off its debt. A low ratio means there is plenty of economic output to make the payments". (2.) https://www.thebalance.com...

" The estimations establish a threshold of 77 percent public debt-to-GDP ratio. If the debt is above this threshold, each additional percentage point of debt costs 0.017 percentage points of annual real growth. The effect is even more pronounced in emerging markets where the threshold is 64 percent debt-to-GDP ratio. In these countries, the loss in annual real growth with each additional percentage point in public debt amounts to 0.02 percentage points. The cumulative effect on real GDP could be substantial. Importantly, the estimations control for other variables that might impact growth, such as the initial level of per-capita-GDP". (3.) https://elibrary.worldbank.org...

The best element an investor has is the faith in a government's solvency is the yield on its debt. When yields are low, that means there is a lot of demand for its debt. It doesn't have to pay as high a return. The United States has been fortunate in this regard. During the Great Recession, investors fled to U.S. debt. It is considered ultra-safe.
As the global economy continues to improve, investors will be comfortable with higher risk because they want higher returns. Yields on U.S. debt will rise asdemand falls.

"The U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio is 104 percent. But that's not a critical for a country which can issue debt in its own currency. The United States can simply print more dollars to pay off the debt. For this reason, the risk of default is very low".(4.) https://www.thebalance.com...
Debt service reserves are cash assets that are designated by a borrower to ensure full and timely payments to bondholders. Debt Service Reserve Funds (DSRF) have been used for many years by private businesses and public entities to support debt issues.

Look at the economy is doing great. The job market doing well, the private sector is going well, the economy is building new business, and the housing market is going well. And not just here but globally. So, the national debt is over 20 and a half trillion dollar right now. That doesn't matter much it could go over 30 or 50 trillion and it won't matter too much. As long the economy is going well, and the federal reserves keep on printing money out. It will not affect this generation too negative. It just a number and that all it is.

You say the National debt going to bankrupt up the nation. If that is true, When? and why does it matter to this generation?
Debate Round No. 2
bigdave

Pro

My opponent asks " how long does this deficit have to go on before it actually starts to hit the economy. " He then goes on to quote sources that say it already has impacted the economy where he cites " A study by the World Bank found that if the debt-to-GDP ratio exceeds 77 percent for an extended period of time, it slows economic growth. Every percentage point of debt above this level costs the country 1.7 percent in economic growth." (1)

He then states "Most of the experts think this deficit won't affect us too much just our kid's children, to their children and grandchildren." Note that PRO did not cite an exact year for the bankruptcy. The argument is that IF things do not change there will be bankruptcy.Whether it takes place during our lives or our children"s lives is irrelevant in terms of this debate.

He then cites this statement ""The U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio is 104 percent. But that's not a critical for a country which can issue debt in its own currency. The United States can simply print more dollars to pay off the debt. For this reason, the risk of default is very low" but avoids the rest of the quote".to wit"."On the other hand, the debt holders wind up with money that's worth less. This will eventually make them avoid U.S. debt." (2)

Given in rough numbers, for 2017, federal income was $3.5 trillion. Mandatory spending was $3 trillion, so at that point there was a $500 billion surplus. Then Congress spent the $500 billion ( discretionary spending and debt service) and borrowed an additional $600 billion ( to spend on additional discretionaries) .Total spending amounted to $4.1 trillion.

At this point the equation is $3.5 trillion (revenue) minus $4.1 trillion (spending) = a negative $600 billion (deficit).

The $600 billion ( deficit) is borrowed. $400 billion is raised through the sale of bonds. $200 billion is borrowed from the Social Security Administration.

The $600 billion ( deficit) is then added to the $19.4 trillion ( previous debt ) to arrive at the current debt of $20 trillion.

The borrowed money must be repaid with interest, thus increasing the future deficits and future debt, and so on and so on.

Here is where the problem lays. In 2017 the US will spend $242 billion on debt service. That number may reach $1 trillion by 2020.

Several scenarios could disrupt this procedure and could eventually bankrupt the nation.

Scenarios
#1 Investors stop buying bonds.
#2 Social security no longer has a surplus to loan
#3 New revenue sources will be unavailable
#4 Debt service will consume a higher and higher percentage of the US budget.
#5 Default
#6 Bankruptcy

#1 Why would investors stop buying? "Because" T-Bills offer relatively low returns compared to other debt instruments. In fact, rates on T-Bills can be less than most money market funds or certificates of deposit (CDs). The returns from T-Bills are only realized when they mature, making them a somewhat less attractive income vehicle " especially for investors seeking a steady cash flow." (3)

#2 Social security will no longer have a surplus to loan after 2033 (4)

#3 There are no new major revenue sources

I will deal with 4, 5 and 6 in the next round.

https://www.thebalance.com...
https://www.thebalance.com...
https://www.investopedia.com...
https://www.inquisitr.com...
Nd2400

Con

Okay, so you think the When the part is irrelevant. But in fact, you are wrong on saying this. Why? Because the When part is very important on this subject. It like you are saying, the nation will go broke soon in a year to 5 years. But in fact, you don't have proof of When or Where it going to happen. The nation could very well continue to drive up the national debt. Or this could stable itself out or could actually decrease the national debt within time. With the economy going well, and could even see the economy doing better in the years to come. So, it has the potential to decrease the national debt. You only dismiss the When part because it would ruin your whole case on why the nation would go bankrupt. This bankruptcy of the nation will take a lot longer than what you have claimed. It will not affect this generation as you have claimed. This process, of continually overspending what the nation actually put out, will take a long time. Just like global warming, it not going to really affect this generation. It will take another 30 to 50 years before it could really hurt us if what you said happens. One more thing you thinking nothing can change over time, and it will continue to get worst. But in fact, you don't actually have proof it will continue negatively over time with the national debt.

You said this" Social security will no longer have a surplus to loan after 2033" for your second part of your Scenarios.
"Social Security is fully funded until 2034, and after that it is about three-quarters financed. Considered alone, the DI Trust Fund is projected to become depleted sooner than the combined Social Security funds". (5.) Social Security is "the total cost is now about 5% of the national economy, or GDP. That will rise to about 6% when all of the baby boomers are retired. That increase, 1% of GDP, is less than the nation"s increase in spending for public education when baby boomers were children". (6.) There are two important factors in here, one is they the Government always have to renegotiate every 15 to 20 years to get the math right, because it always changing, not because it will help the nation go broke. the other thing is SSI is actually a small cost of the national economy.

The third reason you list in your Scenarios is " New revenue sources will be unavailable" Why is this even true? The federal government collected revenues from all aspects, such as INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX, PAYROLL TAXES, CORPORATE INCOME TAX, FEDERAL EXCISE TAXES, "The federal government also collects revenue from estate and gift taxes, customs duties, earnings from the Federal Reserve System, and various fees and charges". (7.)
"In fiscal year (FY) 2016[1] the federal government collected revenues of $3.3 trillion"about 17.8 percent of GDP. Over the past 50 years, federal revenue has averaged 17.4 percent of GDP, ranging from 20.0 percent (in 2000) to 14.6 percent (most recently in 2008 and 2009)". (8.)

The sixth Scenarios you haven't said yet until the next round. But I will jump ahead and give my input on it. You think the nation might one day become Bankrupt. Um, that not going to be true at all at least not what you going to say about it nor the timing of this bankruptcy. let me give you a quote on why it won't. "The reason why it's not true is because we live in a fiat currency system, where the United States government can create an infinite number of dollars at no cost to meet its obligations. A Treasury bill is a promise that the government will give you US dollars--something that the United States government can produce infinitely and at no cost".(9.)
Sources
5&6 https://blog.ssa.gov...

7&8 http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...
9 the Link won't fit on here, so I will post it in the comment section.
i will look forward to what else you may have.
Debate Round No. 3
bigdave

Pro

I will start this round by pointing out some misunderstandings.

Con misunderstands when he says that PRO takes the "when" as "irrelevant" . The debate is "if the growth continues" not "when does bankruptcy happen" PRO is saying that if present trends continue, the USA will again go into bankruptcy, but PRO is not giving a year or saying what generation it will impact.

Con believes that the debt could be paid down. History says no. The national debt has not been reduced since 1957 . http://www.batr.org...

Con again misunderstands when he says "It will not affect this generation as you have claimed. " PRO never claimed this .

Con then concedes by saying "It will take another 30 to 50 years before it could really hurt us if what you said happens."

Con cites data that supports PRO regarding the inability of SS to loan money after 2033.
http://money.cnn.com...

Con again misunderstands about "New revenue sources will be unavailable" He cites percentages of EXISTING sources. These are not new sources.

Now on to items 4 to 6

#4 Debt service will consume a higher and higher percentage of the US budget.

In 2016 the effective interest rate on the debt was 2%. The government paid $242,000,000,000 in debt service. What is little known is that the actual interest charge was $432, 000.000.000. In other words the feds kicked about one half of the debt service into the next year.
Here is a table on the growing interest cost of the debt.https://www.treasurydirect.gov...

2017
$458,542,287,311.80
2016
$432,649,652,901.12
2015
$402,435,356,075.49
2014
$430,812,121,372.05
2013
$415,688,781,248.40
2012
$359,796,008,919.49
2011
$454,393,280,417.03
2010
$413,954,825,362.17
2000
$361,997,734,302.36

Thus it is apparent that the debt has grown over time. At the same time, the debt service has grown and grown.

#5 Default

Default is a state where the government fails to meet its financial obligations in the short term. Primarily this happens when the USA fails to pay debt service obligations. "In October 2013"..investors seriously wondered whether the U.S. would actually default on its debt." https://www.thebalance.com...

"There are... scenarios under which the United States would default on its debt. "...Interest rates would rise...The dollar would drop, as foreign investors fled the "safe-haven status" of Treasuries. ". The dollar would lose its status as a global world currency".The U.S. government would not be able to pay [obligations]. U.S. Government simply decided that its debt was too high, and simply stopped paying interest " https://www.thebalance.com...

#6 Bankruptcy

A nation becomes bankrupt when its "lifestyle" exceeds its ability to support that lifestyle. Greece is a good example of this situation, as is Argentina, and to a lesser extent, so is Iceland. http://flatheadbeacon.com...

Additionally there are 14 countries on the verge of bankruptcy http://www.totalbankruptcy.com..., and the USA is on that list.

http://247wallst.com...

"Although not commonly known, the U.S. has declared bankruptcy five times, since its foundation. Once it could not pay its foreign debts, and four times could it not pay its internal debts. These bankruptcies had resulted from financial crises in the banking sector, the first of which was in 1790, and the last of which was in 1933."https://www.dailysabah.com...
Nd2400

Con

Okay, let me be clear here. Because your are misrepresenting the SSI part. I had two parts in it. The first part is the US government have to renegotiate deals every 10 to 14 years. To modify it, you know to make it better. So, yes in 2034 they meaning the SSI will be out of money. But that's only if the government don't renegotiate a new deal before then. And they always renegotiate a new deal 4 to 5 years before the old deal end. The second part of this you didn't even mention. Why Because it would hurt your argument. I said this "The total cost is now about 5% of the national economy, or GDP. That will rise to about 6% when all of the baby boomers are retired". So do you know what this means? It means if ever SSI actually did run out of money which is highly unlikely. It only a small percentage of the country's GDP. SSI running out of money will not dramatic hurt the national debt like some people want to make you believe. It's a fairy tale of lies.

You are correct on this part you never brought up the When part. That's because it would hurt your argument. So, i brought it up for my argument. It does matter rather you like to admit it or not. You said "The growth of the national debt, if not stopped, will bankrupt the nation" but when? It not happening right now nor anytime in the near future. So, why does it matter? It like global warming, we need to do something before it too late. But the too late part could take 50 years, a hundred years, or a thousand years. So, when you said the nation will go bankrupt, it doesn't make sense to me when you say this. It not happening immediately, nor no signs of this happening in the near future.

You brought up the nation faults five different times. Okay that's true. And what happened to the United States since then? Oh they just grow to the most powerful nation on the planet. So tell me why does this matter? It kind of like the stock market it goes up and way up, and then it go down and even deeper down then it shy rocket again. This what happen every time the market had a crash. So, again even if its ever go down this far it will always go back up.

"Many world viewers state that the United States would not go bankrupt because the world economy would not let it as the world economy allegedly feels a US collapse means a world economy collapse, and only God, Goddess, Allah, or other "creator" knows what would result". (10.) https://thelawdictionary.org...

"Usually, the inability to pay debt means one has no money. The United States prints its own money. Yet, money used to pay debt is worthwhile only in terms of the debt it pays. If money holds less worth, it pays less debt. This means that it takes more money to pay the same amount of debt. It is a spiral that reduces the worth of money over time. Eventually, the US might run out of trees " to make paper". (11.) https://thelawdictionary.org...

This is also true the world economy would not let the US go down this far. Because it would cause chaos around the world. So, China and japan the biggest dept we have is with them, and they would not let the US go down this far as you mention. Its way to much money they would be losing not just the US or the world. So, this bankruptcy of the US WILL not happen in our life times. And that does matter. Why are we talking about something that may or may not happen in a very very long time...
Debate Round No. 4
bigdave

Pro

Now that we near the debate"s end, I present my summary.

New revenue sources will be unavailable.

I have already addressed this while my opponent was only able to show existing revenue sources. These sources have not been able to grow at a rate that has reduced the debt in the last 60 years.Thus the debt will grow at a rate that exceeds the growth of the economy.

Existing zero cost funding sources will dry up

The biggest source of zero cost funds is the excess funds from the Social Security Administration . Currently one third of the deficit is covered by these funds. This source will exhaust in 2033. The treasury will then have to sell 50% more bonds to compensate for the loss.

Debt service will consume a higher and higher percentage of the US budget.

An inspection of the table shown earlier will show that the US government is not even paying the full interest on the debt. In 2016 the US government paid $242 billion in debt service even while the interest charge alone was $432 billion. Thus nearly half the cost was charged to future budgets. This alone may make investing in government bonds less attractive.

Investors stop buying bonds.

As the funding situation becomes more apparent, investors will look elsewhere for investing. The government would have to pay a higher interest to attract sufficient dollars to pay the deficit. This increases the cost of debt service, even while we are not even paying full cost today. Thus the deficit becomes a growing problem. THe government could print more dollars, but that just reduces the value of the dollar, which will result in the bonds being even less attractive as an investment.

Default

As investors demand repayment on their bonds, the stress on the system will become unbearable. The government would be forced to reduce governmental services so money could be redirected to debt payments. This could be a short term "reorganization" known as a "default"

Bankruptcy

As the short term default bleeds the system further and further, the result is bankruptcy.

When the government pays out more than it gets in, it has to borrow
When it borrows, it first uses Social Security Administration excess funds
When that excess disappears it must sell more and more bonds
When it sells more and more bonds, the debt service increases
When the debt service increases the government must borrow more money"
When it borrows more and more it becomes an endless spiral
When it becomes an endless spiral, it leads to bankruptcy

See "The Bankruptcy of The United States
United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303" http://www.afn.org...

My argument is that the only way to reduce the threat of bankruptcy is to reduce the debt. The debt is reduced by eliminating the deficit. THe deficit is eliminated by a fiscally responsible Congress.

It was apparent that there were numerous misunderstandings by Con that clouded his reasoning.

Con seems to think that if the bankruptcy doesn"t happen in his lifetime, then it doesn"t matter.That is exactly the kind of reasoning the government uses, and that is why it is a problem. Quote by Con.. " It (sic) not happening right now nor anytime
in the near future. So, why does it matter? " It matters because bankruptcy will impact basic governmental functions.

Quote by Con."You brought up the nation faults five different times. Okay that's true. And what happened to the United States since then? Oh they just grow to the most powerful nation on the planet. So tell me why does this matter? " It matters because so much of the debt is now held by foreign entities. Quote by Con." China and japan the biggest dept ( Sic) we have is with them,"

Quote by Con."every time the market had a crash. ,,,it will always go back up." This faith based assertion has little basis in fact when dealing with bankruptcy.

Be positive.....vote PRO.
Nd2400

Con

Yes, this debate is finally getting over with. It has been what like a week and a half. But it has been fun. So, I guess i should start now.

You kept on saying SSI is going to dry up by 2033, and i already told you it won't. Just because the old deal will end by then, doesn't mean it will dry up the money nor will it end SSI. Nor will this cause a meltdown of the financial institution. I told you the government will renegotiate a new deal before then. And they always renegotiate a new deal 4 to 5 years before the old deals end. Another part like i said before SSI is a smaller part of the GDP, you also didn't provide any proof of how big SSI is on the GDP, I have. "In fiscal year 2016, the federal government spent $3.9 trillion, amounting to 21 percent of the nation"s gross domestic product (GDP). Of that $3.9 trillion, over $3.3 trillion was financed by federal revenues". (12.) https://www.cbpp.org...
Only 24 percent of SSI actually go toward the budget, And like i said before you thinking SSI will fall out of money is flawed, it won't. The government will issue new deals, and new tax breaks, and do whatever it take to keep SSI up and running.

"The treasury will then have to sell 50% more bonds to compensate for the loss". Again you are assuming, with no real proof to back it up. You think if the national debt will increase, it would turn out to be a financial crisis and thinking it would be the end of the US. When in fact, the world economy is interchain with the US, so the world would not let this happen. Another important part you keep on ignoring is the US print their own money.

Yes the US is over 20 and a half trillion dollars in debt. But is this hurting the Economy? the answer is no... So, you say it will one-day lead to a total meltdown of the Economy. Again this is wrong. Why because the world would lay out their hand to help the US again. If the US get in trouble again, the US will simply buy out the banks again and will turn to other nationals to help. China and Japan are our biggest debt collected and yet haven't done or said anything. Why because they still get paid, The US is still the biggest economy in the world. And if or when the US slip to number two, it will still be a great economy. You also assume the US at their current pace of spending will not be able to pay off their debt. When in fact you have shown no evidence of this 20 trillion dollar debt or any higher amount would be hurting the US. Yes, I will agree with you on this part, the US will have another downturn in the economy because it can't stay up forever. But just like in the past the US will be able to rebound, and after some down years, then after some stable years then the US will be able to start thriving again.

Another factor you still want to avoid is the when part, on why it so important. It important because you are trying to assume the future of the downfall of this economy. By saying overspending will hurt us within time. But how will it hurt us in this up and thriving economy? You say by taxes, or by the government not making any more money. But you are forgetting the US federal reserve print their own money and this will never stop. Even if the US is overspending, it will still very unlikely the US will go bankrupt over time. the US will repeat this process over and over, it has been doing this for over 70 years, and will continue for another 40 to 50 years. So, yes the WHEN part is important. You were making it look like the next financial crisis is coming soon, but when in fact it not even close on happening and differently not because of the national debt. The US has a lot of options if things start to look bad, it will not happen overnight. I will say you are right it does matter if the country goes bankrupt, but you were ignoring the facts it won't be trouble anytime soon or how other countries could help the US in time of crisis.

Thank you for this.
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 7 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: YYW// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: PRO had to prove that growth of the national debt, if not stopped, will bankrupt the nation. He contends that 600 billion (deficit) is added to the $19.4 trillion ( previous debt) to arrive at the current debt of $20 trillion. Those figures will increase, and result in six situations: Investors stop buying bonds; Social security no longer has a surplus to loan; New revenue sources will be unavailable; Debt service will consume a higher and higher percentage of the US budget; Default; and Bankruptcy. Only the sixth is topical to the resolution. None were supported by evidence. CON responded that none of these will result in bankruptcy because of US's using a fiat currency, and cites a relevant source. Superficially, PRO rejoins by referencing ancient Greece, but never rebuts fiat currency argument. PRO failed on BOP, and on fiat currency argument. CON wins almost by default. I could award sources to CON because they were of a higher quality, with significant consistency, but won't.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The voter provides sufficient reasoning to award the given points.
************************************************************************
Posted by JuneW 7 months ago
JuneW
PRO was more convincing. Used better grammar and made me realize that bankruptcy is possible. Unfortunately I cannot vote because I need more debates.
Posted by Nd2400 7 months ago
Nd2400
source 9
https://www.forbes.com...
Posted by Nd2400 8 months ago
Nd2400
You know what you in luck.
I actually interested in this kind of debate.
So, I'm guessing round one is for accepting. Since you only have like two or three sentences there.
And round 2 & 3 is for arguing.
If you send me the challenge i would gladly accept....
Posted by bigdave 8 months ago
bigdave
nd2400....take the debate and find out.
Posted by bigdave 8 months ago
bigdave
nd2400....take the debate and find out.
Posted by bigdave 8 months ago
bigdave
nd2400....take the debate and find out.
Posted by Nd2400 8 months ago
Nd2400
Bigdave.. What are you suggestion? How do you stop the national debt from growing? And what kind of evidence can you provide if the national debt ranch any higher, that it would hurt America economy? How can American go broke with a good economy?
Posted by bigdave 8 months ago
bigdave
Perhaps some terms need to be defined.

The "deficit" is the amount of money borrowed by the Federal government in a single year. In 2016 the deficit was $600 billion ( $600,000,000,000)

This deficit is added to the total "debt" which is the total of all the unpaid deficits. In 2016 the debt was $20 trillion ( $20,000,000,000,000).
Posted by Nd2400 8 months ago
Nd2400
philochristos... You are right. I did go to far by saying that. And thank you for that little piece of intel. But the national debt only have a same effect on us. If they tax us way more than needed then there will be a out cry. But you need to know why it went up this year. It was because they were very horrible natural disasters, three powerful hurricanes, then that nasty northern California wildfire, this is why the national debt when up this year. If i wasn't for that, the good things the economy is doing would have brought the national debt down... But either way the national debt really isn't a big deal as some make it out to be.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by YYW 7 months ago
YYW
bigdaveNd2400Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO had to prove that growth of the national debt, if not stopped, will bankrupt the nation. He contends that 600 billion (deficit) is added to the $19.4 trillion ( previous debt) to arrive at the current debt of $20 trillion. Those figures will increase, and result in six situations: Investors stop buying bonds; Social security no longer has a surplus to loan; New revenue sources will be unavailable; Debt service will consume a higher and higher percentage of the US budget; Default; and Bankruptcy. Only the sixth is topical to the resolution. None were supported by evidence. CON responded that none of these will result in bankruptcy because of US's using a fiat currency, and cites a relevant source. Superficially, PRO rejoins by referencing ancient Greece, but never rebuts fiat currency argument. PRO failed on BOP, and on fiat currency argument. CON wins almost by default. I could award sources to CON because they were of a higher quality, with significant consistency, but won't.