The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Korashk
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points

The handicapped should be given jobs on organic farms

Do you like this debate?NoYes-2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Korashk
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,856 times Debate No: 10908
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (11)
Votes (5)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

We all feel sorry for disabled people and that's why we are happy that the Government uses our taxes to pay their rent, buy them brand new cars to drive around in and also provide them with a generous living allowance. (1)

But sitting at home doing nothing all day is unhealthy and demoralising. What the handicapped need is stimulation, dignity and companionship together with plenty of exercise and fresh air. The fact is, working on a farm will give them all of those things in addition to the pride of knowing that their wages will be paid straight to the Government in order to help offset the cost of all the state handouts they get.

Now, since organic farms use no artificial fertilizers or pesticides and avoid the use of polluting farm machinery such as tractors and combine harvesters, they are very labour-intensive. That's why hundreds of thousands of migrant workers have to be shipped into the country every year in order to satisfy the demand for agricultural labour from these farms.

However, the handicapped could do the migrants' jobs instead and thus relieve the racial tensions that large influxes of foreign workers create within rural communities.

Here is a list of the main tasks on an organic farm together with an explanation of how the handicapped could perform them:

Ploughing: a team of wheelchair-users could be harnessed together to pull a plough behind them to till the soil.

Seed drilling: blind people could be sent into the fields with spikes screwed into the bottom of their white sticks that will create seed holes in the soil as they walk around.

Sowing seeds: ropes could be tied around the bottom of mentally handicapped people's trousers (pants) which would then be filled up with seeds. Then holes could be poked through the trouser-legs and they would be sent out to run around in the fields, thus scattering the seeds.

Bird scaring – I don't know what they're called exactly, but you know those really mental ones that go about shouting incoherently and waving their arms about? Well simply tie them to big posts situated in the middle of the fields and they would make ideal scarecrows.

Harvesting – Another job for the wheelchair users. This time fix bread knives to the spokes of their wheels and send them out into the fields to reap the crops.

Now, in order to implement this scheme the Government should stop issuing employment visas to migrants intending to work on farms and also make the payment of agricultural subsidies (2) to organic farmers conditional upon them employing handicapped workers.

In conclusion, this scheme will be help the handicapped regain their dignity and pride, save the taxpayers a fortune and also reduce the social tensions caused by mass immigration and I therefore commend the proposal to the House.

Thank you.

(1) http://www.direct.gov.uk...
(2) http://farmsubsidy.org...
Korashk

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for creating this debate.

~~~

I will negate the resolution that the handicapped should be given labor-intensive jobs on organic farms.

Contention:
My argument is that the individuals presented by my opponent couldn't do the work that he proposes effectively enough to justify their hire.

Rebuttals:
"Ploughing: a team of wheelchair-users could be harnessed together to pull a plough behind them to till the soil."

There's no way that a team of wheelchairs could pull a plough. Ploughs are very large and heavy pieces of equipment [1]. Your typical wheelchair looks like this [2]. There's no way that a thing like that can get enough traction to pull a beast of a plough. Cripples are also very stubborn and don't like being helped.

"Seed drilling: blind people could be sent into the fields with spikes screwed into the bottom of their white sticks that will create seed holes in the soil as they walk around."

This is crazy dangerous. You cant just have the visually impaired walking around willy-nilly. They would run into stuff and step on things. If you couple this with putting SPIKES on their feet your farm will be lawsuit and injury-leave city. Not to mention that blind people would not know when they were done.

"Sowing seeds: ropes could be tied around the bottom of mentally handicapped people's trousers (pants) which would then be filled up with seeds. Then holes could be poked through the trouser-legs and they would be sent out to run around in the fields, thus scattering the seeds."

Everyone knows that those of a slow persuasion do not have the kind of focus required to evenly spread the seeds. We're talking about a lot of waste with this idea. Also, the mentally retarded don't understand social mores, therefore they would be very hard to direct.

"Bird scaring – I don't know what they're called exactly, but you know those really mental ones that go about shouting incoherently and waving their arms about? Well simply tie them to big posts situated in the middle of the fields and they would make ideal scarecrows."

These ones are usually locked up in the loony-bin. Hey are locked up because they're dangerous. Your plan calls for giving them some semblance of freedom. This is the point where escaping becomes a problem. I personally would not want an unstable looney running around in my neighborhood.

"Harvesting – Another job for the wheelchair users. This time fix bread knives to the spokes of their wheels and send them out into the fields to reap the crops."

I'd like you to elaborate on this idea. I don't see how putting knives on wheels would effectively cut crops. Even if you show a way that it would work how would they effectively gather all of the cut crops.

(I typed most of this argument on my iPod. I do not reccomend ever doing this Audience.)

[1] Video of a plough in Endland
[2] http://wwwc.mentalfloss.com...
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

With many thanks to Korashk for accepting this debate, I should like to respond to the objections raised as follows:

"There's no way that a team of wheelchairs could pull a plough. Ploughs are very large and heavy pieces of equipment [1]. Your typical wheelchair looks like this [2]. There's no way that a thing like that can get enough traction to pull a beast of a plough. Cripples are also very stubborn and don't like being helped."

I just want to re-iterate that the wheelchair users will be harnessed together, rather than working individually, to pull the ploughs, just like a team of horses:

http://www.britishfestivaloftheworkinghorse.co.uk...

However, I do recognise that in any team there will be some slackers so in order to ensure everybody pulls their weight I suggest they are supervised by a burly gentleman with a whip, which is a tried and tested staff-motivation technique that I borrowed from ancient mariners:

http://img.tfd.com...

"This is crazy dangerous. You cant just have the visually impaired walking around willy-nilly. They would run into stuff and step on things. If you couple this with putting SPIKES on their feet your farm will be lawsuit and injury-leave city. Not to mention that blind people would not know when they were done."

Actually, I suggested that the spikes should be screwed into the bottom of the blind people's white sticks, but I see my opponent's point. However, he clearly isn't aware that blind people's hearing is far superior to that of sighted people and, like bats, they are able to make sounds that are inaudible to normal people, which bounce of fixed objects, animals and other humans that enable them to fix their location to within a fraction of an inch. Therefore, there is no risk of a collision, and as far as not knowing when they are done is concerned, the farmer will tell them – they are blind not deaf!

"Everyone knows that those of a slow persuasion do not have the kind of focus required to evenly spread the seeds. We're talking about a lot of waste with this idea. Also, the mentally retarded don't understand social mores, therefore they would be very hard to direct."

I should have pointed out that the distribution of seeds by the mentally handicapped will be directed by the farmer who will use his shotgun to fire at the frothing funny-farmhands' feet. Of course, he will occasionally miss and hit their legs by mistake but this will be no problem as their legs will be protected by all the seeds in their trousers (pants) and the holes created in them by the shot will just let a few more seeds out.

"These ones are usually locked up in the loony-bin. Hey are locked up because they're dangerous. Your plan calls for giving them some semblance of freedom. This is the point where escaping becomes a problem. I personally would not want an unstable looney running around in my neighborhood."

I agree that seriously mentally disturbed people are a nuisance and a potential danger in the towns and cities but, as anyone who has visited the countryside will know, most people who live there are out-and-out, unmitigated nutjobs themselves.

http://www.literarynorfolk.co.uk...

This is because they are all inbred – see entry under ‘NFN'.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Furthermore, since these surrogate scarecrows will be securely tied to posts, the danger to normal members of the public will be negligible.

"I'd like you to elaborate on this idea. I don't see how putting knives on wheels would effectively cut crops. Even if you show a way that it would work how would they effectively gather all of the cut crops."

I will elaborate with pleasure. As the wheels turn, knives fixed perpendicularly will cut the crops, which will be collected in bags by mental cases walking behind them.

You see, it's all very straightforward if you just use a bit of lateral thinking.

In conclusion, the human race has progressed from simple hunting and gathering to today's sophisticated civilisations only through innovative schemes such as the one outlined above and if we are to continue to advance we must embrace new ideas like this one and not try and find faults at every opportunity as my opponent has done. I, therefore, implore you to vote Pro.

Thank you.
Korashk

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for his well thought out responses and move on to my defense and rebuttals.

"However, I do recognise that in any team there will be some slackers so in order to ensure everybody pulls their weight I suggest they are supervised by a burly gentleman with a whip, which is a tried and tested staff-motivation technique that I borrowed from ancient mariners:"

[I agree that physical harm is a good motivator, but you have failed to address the issue of traction. You can beat someone however much you want, but if they aren't physically able to pull a plough it isn't going to get done.]

"Actually, I suggested that the spikes should be screwed into the bottom of the blind people's white sticks, but I see my opponent's point. However, he clearly isn't aware that blind people's hearing is far superior to that of sighted people and, like bats, they are able to make sounds that are inaudible to normal people, which bounce of fixed objects, animals and other humans that enable them to fix their location to within a fraction of an inch. Therefore, there is no risk of a collision, and as far as not knowing when they are done is concerned, the farmer will tell them – they are blind not deaf!"

[ I apologize for misreading your point above, I read "socks," not "sticks," and in my defense I was on an iPod Touch. Human echolocation is not a common ability of blind people and to use it effectively one must be practiced in it [1]. This makes this point invalid.]

"I should have pointed out that the distribution of seeds by the mentally handicapped will be directed by the farmer who will use his shotgun to fire at the frothing funny-farmhands' feet. Of course, he will occasionally miss and hit their legs by mistake but this will be no problem as their legs will be protected by all the seeds in their trousers (pants) and the holes created in them by the shot will just let a few more seeds out."

[Here my opponent contends that taking a shotgun blast to the leg/shins would not be an issue. I say otherwise [2]. [2] is a picture of a chest wound caused by a shotgun. It would certainly mess up a person's leg. In addition to that it wouldn't just make little holes, it would make big holes that would cause the seed to pour out of the trousers too fast. My opponent's proposal is not ineffective and I have successfully refuted it.]

"I agree that seriously mentally disturbed people are a nuisance and a potential danger in the towns and cities but, as anyone who has visited the countryside will know, most people who live there are out-and-out, unmitigated nutjobs themselves.
This is because they are all inbred – see entry under ‘NFN'.
Furthermore, since these surrogate scarecrows will be securely tied to posts, the danger to normal members of the public will be negligible."

[You didn't advocate using your local nutjob, you advocated using, "those really mental ones that go about shouting incoherently and waving their arms about." No matter how good you secure them no system is perfect and it is possible that some could escape. It is those escapees that would be a danger to the public. Hurting a member of society usually makes that member of the society hit you with a lawsuit. I wouldn't want to have to pay someone just because I wanted to use a crazy as labor on my farm.]

"I will elaborate with pleasure. As the wheels turn, knives fixed perpendicularly will cut the crops, which will be collected in bags by mental cases walking behind them."

[What I picture in my head is thus: [3]. The top wheel has knives attached around the outside of the wheel the bottom has one central knife that rotated, the problem I see is that the knives would likely just push the plants over, not cut them.]

~

In conclusion I think that I have adequately refuted the idea that the handicapped should be given jobs on farms, organic or otherwise, by showing that they would be unable to do the work effectively. I would like to thank brian for the debate. It was very amusing.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.firearmz.net...
[3] Be awed by the artistic ability of Korashk!!! http://i48.tinypic.com...
Debate Round No. 2
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by drkcloud123 7 years ago
drkcloud123
i say we use the handicapped as plowing dogs instead and have head-handicap yell out mash while whipping his fellow wheel chair bound comrades
Posted by atheistman 7 years ago
atheistman
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
@OreEle

When I googled for pictures a lot of them were birdshot and looked quite bad.
Posted by Rockylightning 7 years ago
Rockylightning
this is interesting...
Posted by bradv42 7 years ago
bradv42
The handicapped on farms eh? That's... New.
Posted by Ore_Ele 7 years ago
Ore_Ele
the shotgun argument completely depends on the type of shot they are using and the distance.
Posted by nonentity 7 years ago
nonentity
I got halfway through Con's first round and had to stop reading. I'm laughing my butt off in class when I should be listening to a podcast. This is too funny... I'll have to come back to it later!
Posted by Ore_Ele 7 years ago
Ore_Ele
Okay, I posted that before reading the first round.

FUNNY AS HELL!
Posted by Ore_Ele 7 years ago
Ore_Ele
...my brother is handicapped...

lol, but go ahead and have fun. I do agree with Pro's idea of getting them out and working and doing something, but I think that bunching them all to farm work is a one size that will not fit all.

But I greatly look forward to this debate.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
Just in advance. I will be arguing my case using the defense that they couldn't do the work. To those with poor senses of humor this will be extremely offensive.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Grape 7 years ago
Grape
brian_egglestonKorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Vote Placed by ansonmypants 7 years ago
ansonmypants
brian_egglestonKorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 7 years ago
Ore_Ele
brian_egglestonKorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:33 
Vote Placed by haxandrew 7 years ago
haxandrew
brian_egglestonKorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
brian_egglestonKorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03