The Instigator
jaixpert
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
LuisMiguelLuna
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

The hunger to know about our past and present is helping to build our future in no way.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/1/2009 Category: Science
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,441 times Debate No: 10304
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

jaixpert

Pro

In today's world, the hunger of scientists to know about our past is nowhere helping to make our future better. A lot of researches had been done and a lot of resources have been spent only in order to know 'How did the earth evolve?'. And for this a lot of money and time is being spent.

It is better to know about our past, but not at the cost of our future. If such effort is done in order to make our future better, for improvement of climate, for reducing food problems and a lot like these (which are of major priority), our world would be a better place to live in.

An experiment, that is performed to make the conditions just like after big bang, costs about 5 Billion dollars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

Such amount of resource, if properly used along with such a great knowledge, should have made our present problems less intensified.

Moreover, there is no use of conducting such experiments, as what we will be getting after completion of it, will not be of much use and application. Instead, try to use same force and resource for better purposes.

For the facts that there is no use of conducting experiments and researches which helps to know about our past as it may not help to improve future, I stand firmly FOR the topic that 'The hunger to know about our past and present is helping to build our future in no way.'
LuisMiguelLuna

Con

I won't spend too much of my time on pleasantries, but first I'd like to thank my opponent and readers for my first debate here on DDO. Now, to business.
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"It is better to know about our past, but not at the cost of our future. If such effort is done in order to make our future better, for improvement of climate, for reducing food problems and a lot like these (which are of major priority), our world would be a better place to live in."

Without proper knowledge of our past, how would we know about these examples you gave? Without decades of collecting data regarding the past, such as geologic formations and chronology, historical weather patterns, glacial composition and retreat, how would we know that the climate needs to be improved? Without statistics involving population increase, water quality, germs that live in food and the countless drug trails to counteract these germs, how would we know that there are food shortages or certain problems with quality?
Such statements are dependent on past and present knowledge, especially since data cannot be collected, analyzed and responded to instantaneously.
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"An experiment, that is performed to make the conditions just like after big bang, costs about 5 Billion dollars… Such amount of resource, if properly used along with such a great knowledge, should have made our present problems less intensified."

Where would this 'great knowledge' you allude to, come from? How will you know where to spend such vast quantities of money without looking at previous trends within similar parameters? If you're not drawing on experience put through the rigors of repetitive testing, what are you using to make such judgments?
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"Moreover, there is no use of conducting such experiments, as what we will be getting after completion of it, will not be of much use and application. Instead, try to use same force and resource for better purposes."

Must be nice to know the future like that. You've already seen the outcome of the experiment and all possible conclusions and future questions that may arise from that outcome.

How can you say that there will be no use in conducting such experiments? If not for the actual results of the experiment yielding a greater understanding of the universe, then consider that many scientific breakthroughs, such as penicillin and Teflon, have been a result of serendipity arising from other experiments. True, basing research funding on what accidents might happen is not the best of ideas, but claiming to know the utility of the outcome is almost equally fallacious.
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The very purpose for any facet of science, be it economics, physics, medicine, etc., is to use previous data and experience to understand the world. From there, knowledge can be used to better our lives.
Debate Round No. 1
jaixpert

Pro

jaixpert forfeited this round.
LuisMiguelLuna

Con

My opponent seems to be stunned by the eloquence of my arguments...or something. I'll reiterate my position.

Only by evaluating the past and present through scientific methods can we have a chance to know that anything is wrong, that we can fix it, and that what we are doing to fix it is working.

I look forward to my opponent's response...any response for that matter.
Debate Round No. 2
jaixpert

Pro

With the very honour of having a competent opponent, I would justify my inability to post as a personal problem. But after reading all the argument by my opponent I would like to present my views on these arguments.

As stated, it is very important to know about past so as to carry out better operations for futures, but tell me is it necessary to create a condition of big bang by spending billions of dollars instead of solving food problems and saving those peoples who are dying because they are not getting food for survival.

My point is, there is no need of performing massive, expensive experiments which are probably not helping to better our present and future. It is a very need of research about our economy, climate and population but not of those which just claim that 'Our earth, before many million years was like this'.

Referring to the same 'Collider experiment', is it important to know how our earth evolved and how the big bang took place?, or to save those who are dying because of shortage of food. And in my view some of the experiment and researches, are performed for the only purpose of achieving fame and name and not for development of humanity.

Knowledge of past is of utmost importance and quintessential of further developments, but now a days most of these researches and experiment are done to get those facts from past which may not be helpful.

Just knowing our past by conducting huge and expensive experiment shall not improve our future but there is a need of performing select researches and experiments which may help to solve issues of prime concern like food problem, like climate condition and a much more prevailing in our world.
LuisMiguelLuna

Con

I was joking in my previous post about my opponent's inability to post in a timely manner, but no worries.
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"My point is, there is no need of performing massive, expensive experiments which are probably not helping to better our present and future. It is a very need of research about our economy, climate and population but not of those which just claim that 'Our earth, before many million years was like this'."

My opponent offers a weak characterization of the work going on in some of the theoretical sciences, leading me to believe that he has not done much research concerning the purpose of the LHC or similar examples. Since my opponent seems fixated on the experiment, he'll be happy to know that the construction of the LHC has already brought forth another scientific breakthrough as seen here: http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch... , proving its worth at least on a medical level and improving our present and future.
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"Referring to the same 'Collider experiment', is it important to know how our earth evolved and how the big bang took place?, or to save those who are dying because of shortage of food. And in my view some of the experiment and researches, are performed for the only purpose of achieving fame and name and not for development of humanity."

Assuming for a moment that one accepts the premise that working to feed everyone on earth would not lead to catastrophic population overgrowth, the stretching of planetary resources too thin or any other apocalyptic scenario, perhaps my opponent puts too much stock in saving others. He has not yet proven that it would be better for humanity to assist other people in their survival and at the same time he rejects some of the goals and accomplishments of the LHC. http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch...

At the same time, he gives another strange characterization of science as being a fame driven business. True there are some scientists who use their knowledge for the purposes of furthering their own bids for glory, but those scientists do so by expanding the knowledge of the human race.
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"Knowledge of past is of utmost importance and quintessential of further developments, but now a days most of these researches and experiment are done to get those facts from past which may not be helpful."

Again we do not yet know the ramifications of the outcome of the experiment or of the previously cited effects of the experiment itself. Unless my opponent could supply evidence that large scale or expensive experiments are in some way hurting the work of charity groups and social norms, I don't see how he can justifiably reject doing them based on his original humanitarian premise.
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"Just knowing our past by conducting huge and expensive experiment shall not improve our future but there is a need of performing select researches and experiments which may help to solve issues of prime concern like food problem, like climate condition and a much more prevailing in our world."

Let's assume for a moment that all scientific endeavors were halted tomorrow for the express purpose of spending more on social needs, for example, improving conditions in Africa. How could we work towards reversing deforestation without knowing what would effectively grow and flourish there based on the geological, meteorological and historic details of the region? How could we know that, hypothetically, the Earth wasn't naturally progressing toward the destruction of Africa without knowing how the earth formed, how the tectonic plates move or how the atmosphere functions?

Even then, there's nothing to say that these "hard" sciences wouldn't produce something of equal or greater value in any of the social sciences. Crossover in groups of knowledge happens all the time. If no one dreamed to invent the plow or sythe, wouldn't it also be what my opponent describes? Stopping the improvement of our knowledge in order to focus on what we have now? Wouldn't the lack of those two important Neolithic tools greatly hurt his quest to end hunger?

I recommend my opponent search more in depth to the ramifications of previous big, expensive experiments such as these to see where their outcomes and the outcomes of those have lead. Thanks to him and the voting audience for my first formal debate.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by jaixpert 7 years ago
jaixpert
Instead of spending resources on getting knowledge about the past, the same should be used for development of future
Posted by Cherymenthol 7 years ago
Cherymenthol
I thought it was something along the lines of RESOLVED: We learn from our past.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
Confusing resolution. Are you basicly saying: when in conflict, we should prioritize progress over further insight into history?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
jaixpertLuisMiguelLunaTied
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Total points awarded:04