The Instigator
27376
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Teemo
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

The ice hockey goaltendee is the most difficult position in all of sport

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Teemo
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/18/2014 Category: Sports
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,947 times Debate No: 54942
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

27376

Pro

I would have to agree that the ice hockey goaltender is the most difficult position in the the sports world. No one else is the biggest reason for succes or failure on any other team. I have taken the time to take a look at multiple sports and positions to see if there is one harder than the hockey goaltender. Football- all positions are are only on the field half the time. Baseball- the bal is only put into play about 30%of the time baseball pitchers- they cant pitch a whole game. Soccer goaltender- theres very little movement. Dancer- you only perfor mm for 7 minutes and your done. Basketball- all you do is run up and down the court a lot. Wrestling- you dont run at all.
Those are just some of the basics and they all have multiple other reasons why they are not the most difficult position in all of sport. Now lets look at why the hockey goaltender is the hardest. The hockey goaltender must skate, which in itself is unique to the sport. Also, everytime you make a mistake. It goes up on a big scoreboard( this aplys to all goaltenders) , plus the goaltender must put on over thirty pounds of equipment. To protect themselves from 100mph slapshots. Again. Many other reasons that i will continue to say during this debate. If there is a harder sport out there. Then i will accept that my position is not the hardest. But if it is, then i would like the same in return
Teemo

Con

Oh boy! great debate to take part in. Great debate idea friend! I thank you for creating it. I will begin with my refutation, and then explain some positions that are much more difficult that being the goaltender in hockey.

REFUTATIONS

"I would have to agree that the ice hockey goaltender is the most difficult position in the the sports world. No one else is the biggest reason for succes or failure on any other team."

I would like to point out that the importance and the difficulty of a role are 2 different things. For example, though in League of Legends, the ADC is crucial, that doesn't make his role the hardest. It only pins more responsibility on him. So, in other words, just because the goalie's position is the most important does not make it the most difficult.

" Football- all positions are are only on the field half the time. Baseball- the bal is only put into play about 30%of the time baseball pitchers- they cant pitch a whole game. Soccer goaltender- theres very little movement. Dancer- you only perfor mm for 7 minutes and your done. Basketball- all you do is run up and down the court a lot. Wrestling- you dont run at all."

I beg to differ. For football, they are on the field the whole time running back and forth, trying to tackle eachother, and attempt to make the opponent drop the ball, or juke through an entire team, which consist of 11 players! In hockey, there are only 5 players to worry about. Furthermore, in foot ball, the quarterback throws the ball a tremendous amount of yards. This requires accuracy, technique, strength, prediction and practice. In hockey however, being the goaltender you already cover the majority of the net, making it easy.

In baseball, the pitcher needs to specifically choose a pitch in order to strike out the opponent. This also requires a variety of skill, strategy and accuracy. You also need to previously know the batter in order to know how to pitch.

And about soccer, you are completly false. In soccer, the goaltender has to deal with various opposing players. Furthermore, he needs to have control of his box. The net is humongous compared to a hockey net. And if you haven't noticed, in hockey the goalies don't move until the puck is in their zone. Soccer goaltending is much more difficult, because there are a variety of trick shots that can be excuted in soccer but not hockey. Also, there are various body parts that can hit the ball, making it difficult to predict how they are going to shoot. This is much more difficult than hockey, since in hockey you already cover almost all of the net, and also have extra padding, and a stick to block a puck.

In dancing, one mistake and you lose almost all your points. In hockey, 1 point can easily be scored again. In dancing, there is no way to make a comeback. Thus, dancing is more difficult, and requires extreme precision.

In wrestling, you are constantly injuring your opponent while being injured. You feel pain, but still fight through it. This requires much more energy, strength and perserverance than goaltending. Why? Because in hockey, half of the time you are just standing. Also, you have excessive padding, preventing you from pain. And no excessive strength is required in goaltending.

As you can see, these 5 sports and much much more are more difficult than goaltending. I will now list a few more.

Armless ping pong. This is much more difficult than hockey goaltending. Why? Because it is practically impossible to play without arms. So you need to play with your mouth. http://www.cbssports.com...

This prevents you from smashing, and a variety of other commonly used tactics. Furthermore, you end up playing with people with arms. Going through the constant pressure while holding a paddle in your mouth and trying to block proffesional smashes is much more difficult than goaltending.

Also, goaltending in hockey isn't as important as people take it for. Think about it, when people pull and open net, they have no goalie, yet they still score. This is a clear highlight that proves that a goaltender isn't even the most important player on the team.

In conclusion, a variety of sports are more difficult than goal tending in hockey. Goal tending in hockey is actually simple, since you cover most of the net already, and have padding to make you cover even more. In sports like soccer however, they must save a ball, while they cover a humoungous net, and experiance unbelievable trick shots. Hockey goaltending is easy, not difficult, and requires much less skill, endurance power and strength as other roles in sports.


Debate Round No. 1
27376

Pro

Thank you for taking a part in this and for having much respect. I assume you play soccer because you seem to write more and be most passionate about it, but that is just an assumption. In soccer, the goalie may have to leave his small box to play the ball. But the hockey goaltender must do the same to play the puck. And as the goal may be 4x the size if an Nil size, the ball is 10x bigger than a puck. The puck can be tipped, there can be multiple passes before a shot, the goalie can be screened and the goalie can be hit by another player, which may be illegal but is rarely called by referees.
In football, what I meant by they aren't on the field all the time is that if your a quarterback, your not going to be on the field when the defense is on the field.
Baseball, the pitcher does need to choose the perfect pitch, but they have about a minute to do so. The hockey goalie must do the equivalent but in a split second
Dance, dance is mostly a team sport where no body contributes the most. And if it is a single dancer, when they make a mistake, they cant be pulled and humiliated, they get to keep going on
Wrestling, just so we are clear, we are talking about cage fighters and not that fake wwe stuff right, that being said, fists and kicks don't hurt as bad as a puck to the groin. Plus, id like to see a wrestler skate with that much pads on.

On the armless ping pongers, I give them many applauds since I know I couldn't do it, but its still not that different id they're playing everyone like that.
The goaltender may not be as important as you say, but it is the most difficult there is since all goalies must use the Same size net from mini mights to beer league, all goalies must skate which does not apply to any other sport. Finally all goalies must have some of the greatest hand eye coordination there is. Because unlike baseball players. If they miss the puck, its a goal.

So I ask you this, if the hockey goaltender isn't the most difficult position in sport, then who is.
Teemo

Con

I thank my opponent for the responce.

REFUTATIONS

"Thank you for taking a part in this and for having much respect. I assume you play soccer because you seem to write more and be most passionate about it, but that is just an assumption. In soccer, the goalie may have to leave his small box to play the ball. But the hockey goaltender must do the same to play the puck. And as the goal may be 4x the size if an Nil size, the ball is 10x bigger than a puck."

False. The hockey net is 4 high by 6 feet wide. [1] The area is 24 feet in area. The puck is 1" thick and 3" in diameter. Since it is usually shot sideways, the puck is about 3 inches cubed.So, the puck takes up an eigth of the hockey net. [2] The soccer net is 24 feet wide, and 8 feet high. [3] This is 192 feet in area. The ball is about 28 inches. [4] Or, 2 foot 8. This takes up around a 68! As you can see, the amount of space that the soccer ball can fit into the soccer net is much much bigger than the space for a puck into a hockey net. The chances of a soccer ball going in is over 8 times more than a hockey net. So, obviously being a soccer goalie, you need to cover both the box and your net, this is much much harder than a soccer goalie. A soccer goalie already covers almost the whole net!

"The puck can be tipped, there can be multiple passes before a shot, the goalie can be screened and the goalie can be hit by another player, which may be illegal but is rarely called by referees."

The same happens for many sports such as soccer and le cross.

"In football, what I meant by they aren't on the field all the time is that if your a quarterback, your not going to be on the field when the defense is on the field."

The quarter back is always on the field.

"Baseball, the pitcher does need to choose the perfect pitch, but they have about a minute to do so. The hockey goalie must do the equivalent but in a split second"

The pitcher has 10 seconds, whereas a hockey goalie has plenty of time. While he observes the puck approaching, he has plenty of time to estimate where the player is going to shoot.

"Dance, dance is mostly a team sport where no body contributes the most. And if it is a single dancer, when they make a mistake, they cant be pulled and humiliated, they get to keep going on."

In dance, if you make that mistake you are pretty much already out. In Hockey, if the goalie makes a mistake, the team can always even the score.

"Wrestling, just so we are clear, we are talking about cage fighters and not that fake wwe stuff right, that being said, fists and kicks don't hurt as bad as a puck to the groin. Plus, id like to see a wrestler skate with that much pads on."

Let me tell you something, a puck to the groin doesn't hurt at all! Why? Because every goalie wears a jockstrap. A punch to the face, and being beaten up but still required to fight back hurts much more, and is much more difficult than a goalie with full padding who is basically standing still having to stop pucks when he already covers most of the net.

"On the armless ping pongers, I give them many applauds since I know I couldn't do it, but its still not that different id they're playing everyone like that."

But it is still much more difficult.

"The goaltender may not be as important as you say, but it is the most difficult there is since all goalies must use the Same size net from mini mights to beer league, all goalies must skate which does not apply to any other sport. "

There are plenty of sports that include skates!

  • Aggressive inline skating
  • Artistic roller skating
  • Bobrun skating
  • Ice skating
  • Inline speed skating
  • Figure skating
  • Rinkball
  • Rink hockey
  • Freestyle slalom skating
  • Roller derby
  • Roller skating
  • Short track speed skating
  • Skater hockey
  • Speed skating
  • Synchronized skating
[5]

And hockey goaltending isn't even close to the hardest position. In fact, plenty of goalies think goaltending is easy.


"As I embark on this next phase in my life with my goaltending school, all I can think of is all that the game of hockey has given me – and how it’s now my time to give it all back to the kids.

I’m raising a family of my own now, and if I can be a positive influence on the kids at the arena and help them “dream big,” then I feel I’m fulfilling my duty in life. The world doesn’t need another coach yelling and screaming at their kids. Kids get enough of that through their teenage years, and that’s why some of them they say the heck with hockey when they reach that critical make-it-or-break-it 14-16 years of age.

I want to put as many kids in college, playing hockey, as I can. So, I have to put together a structured plan and create a culture that will make this happen. What I have to offer isn’t just great hockey goalie drills and managing a practice. I feel my biggest asset is having the experience and gift for connecting with the kids. Here is the way I see it:

Great Practice = Easy Game" [6]

You see? Even this goaltending coach admits it. With enough practice, it's and easy game. So if some goalies and goalie coaches think it's easy, how is it the hardest position?

CONCLUSION:

In conclusion, there are plenty of sports with a much more difficult position. Hockey goaltending is easy, because they already cover most of the net, and basically feel no pain due to their excessive padding. Also, skating isn't an issue with goalies since they barely move, they are in a small area. Also, it doesn't require as much dedication as sports like armless pingpong. Some people even think goaltending is easy! So, it is clear that hockey goaltending is one of the easiest positions, definitly not the hardest.

SOURCES:


[1]http://www.sportsknowhow.com...

[2]http://web.archive.org...

[3] http://www.sportsknowhow.com...

[4]http://worldsoccer.about.com...

[5]http://en.wikipedia.org...

[6]http://www.stevevaliquette.com...;

Debate Round No. 2
27376

Pro

About the puck being one eighth the size of the hockey net, a 3x1 puck which is 3 inches in area. And a 4'x6' net which has an area of 24ft, which calculated is to be 288in in area. So what you said is that 1/8 is equivalent to 3/288, which is obviously wrong. The puck takes up 1.01% of the net. While in soccer the net has an area of 196ft, while the ball is 27" in circumference which is 1.1% of the net, giving the hockey goaltender the advantage in this catagorie. Plus you even admitted " A soccer goalie already covers almost the whole net!"
Football, the quarterback is not on the field the whole time because when the other teams quarterback and offense goes onto the field, the quarterback takes a break in the bench while his defense tries to gain back the ball.
Baseball, the pitcher has 10 seconds to throw his pitch, while a goalie may have milliseconds to react. If a goalie does not see the puck or it is tipped, he does not have all the time he wants to react. Even if its a normal shot the shooter can change directions with his stick or fake a pass. Or he can even deke the puck a lot.
Dance, the tram may be able to score another goal, but it would help if you didn't get pulled from that mistake, in dance, as you may be out of competition, you still get to show everyone else who us watching your not willing to give up, as is what it looks like when the hockey goaltender is getting pulled.

Wrestling, I'm sorry for the gruesome description but even with a cup on a puck to my groin made me start crying on the ice and my penis was bruised, but I guess getting punches and kicks to the stomach are really bad too. Oh and by the Way i finished that game and had a great outing the rest of the way.

When i say that skating is not in another sports, i meant ice skating, which eliminates 80% of the sports you listed, and a for the other 20% none require as much mental toughness as the hockey goaltender which i will explain in a little bit.
When the author says "easy practice=easy game, that is for any sport, if i work hard in practice the games will come easy to me, but if i slack around in practice, then the games will be very hard. What he didn't mention is the mental toughness of the goalie.
"The goalie has one of the most mentally demanding positions in any sport. When you combine the speed and mental skills required of a goalie with the danger of the sport, ice hockey is tops"(http://www.podiumsportsjournal.com.... )

Oh yea, by the way, goaltenders do not take up all of the net and do move a lot. If you ever go to a practice, you will see goalies always working on their movement. Because if you don't work on your movement then you can never get over to save puck on a one timer. Plus goalie pads are getting smaller and smaller which is fine with me, but big pads don't really matter when sticks help you shoot precisely ever time.

So, if i have presented enough evidence as i believe i have, then goaltender should be more respected everywhere for the mental toughness, skating, pain, doubters, and everything else that comes with goaltending that comes along with it. Thank you
Teemo

Con

REFUTATIONS

"About the puck being one eighth the size of the hockey net, a 3x1 puck which is 3 inches in area. And a 4'x6' net which has an area of 24ft, which calculated is to be 288in in area. So what you said is that 1/8 is equivalent to 3/288, which is obviously wrong. The puck takes up 1.01% of the net. While in soccer the net has an area of 196ft, while the ball is 27" in circumference which is 1.1% of the net, giving the hockey goaltender the advantage in this catagorie. Plus you even admitted " A soccer goalie already covers almost the whole net!"

I didn't realise my huge math error, and I apologize. However, even with this, the hockey goalie still covers most of the net, allowing less than 8 places to shoot. Also, since you are skating, and far from the net in many cases with people blocking your view, it is extremly hard to aim.


As you can see, he covers most of the net, so either way you only have 8 chances of scoring. Also, he can easily move his entire body 1 way in order to stop the puck. Even with only a split second to think, his body can easily move 1 way and block anything coming from this area. I apologize for the error, I meant hockey players already cover most of the net. Him covering most of the net, and the difficulty to shoot makes this a very easy role. That also explains why scores in hockey games consist of a minimum amount.

"When i say that skating is not in another sports, i meant ice skating, which eliminates 80% of the sports you listed, and a for the other 20% none require as much mental toughness as the hockey goaltender which i will explain in a little bit.
When the author says "easy practice=easy game, that is for any sport, if i work hard in practice the games will come easy to me, but if i slack around in practice, then the games will be very hard. What he didn't mention is the mental toughness of the goalie."The goalie has one of the most mentally demanding positions in any sport. When you combine the speed and mental skills required of a goalie with the danger of the sport, ice hockey is tops"(http://www.podiumsportsjournal.com....... )"

Let me point out that first of all your source is uncredible. I wasn't even able to acces it due to the malware inside of it. This enough proves that the website has unsafe content, meaning the things on this website are false. And also, in hockey goaltending you don't need to practice hard. For example, when hockey goaltenders come back from an injury the only go to 2 practices, and boom they are back on their feet and amazing again. Why? Because goaltending is easy. I, a goaltender myself in soccer, hockey and la crosse even know hockey is the easiest one to be goalie know. The so called "mental" requirements are in all other sports, and in fact other sports require more. In hockey, you already cover most of the net. Your reflexes already do all the work, your mentality practically does nothing. However, in sports like soccer, you need to estimate trick shots, tips, and where in your huge net they are going to score. Seeing that soccer scores go up to 8 points compared to the hockey 1 point already shows that soccer is harder to goaltend in. This is proof enough hockey isn't the hardest sport to goaltend in.

"Oh yea, by the way, goaltenders do not take up all of the net and do move a lot. If you ever go to a practice, you will see goalies always working on their movement. Because if you don't work on your movement then you can never get over to save puck on a one timer. Plus goalie pads are getting smaller and smaller which is fine with me, but big pads don't really matter when sticks help you shoot precisely ever time."

Are you crazy? Goaltenders in hockey barely move. Here is the so called practice I have been to.




Yes they do move, but barely, they are in a small area slightly edging from one side to the other, they also bend down occasionally.

-----------------

I would also like to point out one thing. It is impossible to compare different roles in sports to others. For example, you cannot compare an ice skater to a foot ball player and choose which one is better. This is because they have different roles, and do different things which are both hard in their own way. So it is impossible for you to compare hockey goaltending to all sport positions. Because of such, your stance has been deamed impossible to win.

In conclusion, hockey goaltending is actually quite easy. Not too much physical extersion. Also, they are heavily paddded, preventing them from almost no pain. Furthermore, they barely move and already cover most of the net. I, and many other goaltenders even agree it's not that hard. It doesn't require as much energy as running a marathon per say. Also, it doesn't recieve as much pain as wrestling. Since many sports goalies are already harder to do, and it is impossible to compare hockey to the rest of the sports, it is impossible for you to prove hockey goaltending is the hardest of all positions.

Thanks for the fun debate.

Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by 27376 2 years ago
27376
Its all good man. I get a little too sarcastic sometimes. Which isnt good when you're typing.
Posted by Teemo 2 years ago
Teemo
LOL, sorry I perceived your comment incorrectly.
Posted by 27376 2 years ago
27376
Dude, i wasnt pissed off or anything. I just though it was funny. I just thought it was ironic that we only had one vote. I trust hes fair and his comment on his vote showed that.
Posted by Teemo 2 years ago
Teemo
Dude, learn to accept defeat. Also, the voter is a very fair one, as seen from his previous votes. Be grateful we had a vote in the end, usually people have ties due to no votes. It was a fun debate however. In future debates, remember that it is about having fun, not winning.
Posted by 27376 2 years ago
27376
There was only one vote. Really!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by magic123 2 years ago
magic123
27376TeemoTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con is clearly right. I laugh at pros reason for counting out basketball. All you do is run up and down the court. what does that mean? So were just going to count out the fact that the greatest athletes in the world are trying to prevent you from putting a ball into a small tall basket.