The Instigator
parithosh93
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Veridas
Con (against)
Winning
34 Points

The idea of god was fabricated by man

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
Veridas
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/9/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,834 times Debate No: 11691
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (3)
Votes (7)

 

parithosh93

Pro

Let us look into the past, this is a time of unrest and lawlessness, the elders of the land realized that in order to control the people some laws needed to be put into place, when they tried this the fact that nothing was going to happen to the people if they do not agree and follow these laws struck the people. As these ideas began to corrupt the minds of the people the elders felt the need to force order into the faces of these people, they did so by saying that if the people do not follow laws then they will suffer eternal damnation by the hands of a almighty being. And hence man created god to serve his own needs and maintain order, the existance of god also solved a few more of the peoples problems, this idea became widespread and lo we created a "god".
Veridas

Con

Your entire argument relies on two key points.

1: That leaders of any kind are competent enough to instantly make up an entirely new life form for the sole purpose of keeping control of their people.

2: That ancient leaders were not the steel-testacled pointy hat wearing warriors that they often were.

I disagree with this argument of yours not because I'm in any way religious, quite the opposite, and not because I feel any sympathy for religion, I disagree simply because I think you're giving ancient leaders way too much credit.

At best we can say that the concept of god is a stopgap. Something to explain that which cannot currently be explained. Here's a good example, Ancient people discovered that if they planted crops in a building or in a cave, they didn't grow. It's an obvious reason why, if they're inside they have no sunlight, without sunlight there is no photosyhesis and the plant cannot survive. Ancient people didn't know what photosynthesis was, all they knew was that when that big glowing thing in the sky shined on plants, they grew.

That big glowing thing in the sky makes plants grow! it provides life! it must be a higher power!

and that is how sun worshipping came to be.

What you must understand is that ancient people were not by any means less intelligent than we are, they simply weren't as well informed. The logic they used and their method of thinking was precisely the same. If you had no concept of photosynthesis or what the sun was, wouldn't you belive that the sun was a giver of life and, thus, worthy of at least consideration whenever you enjoy your home-grown bug-chewed corncob? (no pesticides, remember.)

The world is a strange and confusing place and we know for sure that we aren't responsible for it. Lightning, natural disasters, these are wrathful things. Rain, sunlight, these are gifts from the heavens. Imagine if you had no idea what caused these things, and yet they seemed to be comparible to what you wish you could do when you felt angry or benevolent?

Something like a human that is infinitely more powerful than a human. Something that you cannot see, but can see you, and knows you, and can smite you at any second or shower you in love.

That is god, and that is how god came to be about, not because some cave-dwelling hillbilly said "hay guise I know sumthin' yoo don't know"
Debate Round No. 1
parithosh93

Pro

Firstly i would like to thank my opponent Veridas for accepting this argument.

I would like to counter your argument point by point,
1. The ancient leaders and common man had to be competent enough to make up things as the necessity arrives, have you not heard the saying "necessity is the mother of invention"? In order to save their position as leaders and to save the people from themselves some sort of fear needed to be instilled in the people's mind. This fear might as well be a supernatural being that punish people for their wrongdoings.

2. You must understand that I have used the term "elders" of the land, meaning they were the more educated and experienced of the tribe/civilization, Not the warmongering chief of the village.

If we refer to ancient texts/ stone carvings such as in the Mesopotamian and ancient Hindu texts people believed in the forces of nature, The people not only feared but they respected these forces, we know from ancient texts that if the people did any wrong deeds these forces of nature stopped/punished them, what is that if not a way to control people with fear? what is that if not a method to enforce some law?
Veridas

Con

Point by point works well with me.

1: Necessity being the mother of invention implies that it was necessary for our survival that we invent god. Something which I find moderately funny. I think you're smart enough to know that point holds no water since You seem to want to portray ancient leaders as hyper competent old men who, despite their apparent reverence and competency, are powerless an disrespected.

www.dictionary.com defines invention as:
in�ven�tion
–noun
1.
the act of inventing.
2.
U.S. Patent Law. a new, useful process, machine, improvement, etc., that did not exist previously and that is recognized as the product of some unique intuition or genius, as distinguished from ordinary mechanical skill or craftsmanship.
3.
anything invented or devised.
4.
the power or faculty of inventing, devising, or originating.
5.
an act or instance of creating or producing by exercise of the imagination, esp. in art, music, etc.
6.
something fabricated, as a false statement.
7.
Sociology. the creation of a new culture trait, pattern, etc.
8.
Music. a short piece, contrapuntal in nature, generally based on one subject.
9.
Rhetoric. (traditionally) one of the five steps in speech preparation, the process of choosing ideas appropriate to the subject, audience, and occasion.
10.
Archaic. the act of finding.

An invention is a deliberate act with the goal in mind from the start. Meaning that you honestly think that thousands upon thousands of years worth of leaders who have cried to restrict, to control and to conquer, they were all outdone by a guy in a cave who was unable to control his own people?

Modern religion is a method of control. It is a leash and collar at best, it is a gilded cage at worst. It is not a method of law-keeping and it is not a method of self-restraint, it is a method of controlling, not protecting. So even if you're correct about the origin, you are wrong about the intention.

2: I noted your use of the term. I also noted that you're looking specifically at Hinduism and Mesopotamian religion. Meaning that at earliest the idea of sun worship came around at about 3300 BC

Ancient Egypt was worshipping the sun, along with several other ridiculous things, since at least 3500 BC. There was no "elder" system in Egypt and the Pharaoh was the absolute ruler.

Sources:
Historical Vedic Religion (One of Hindu's founders and there the idea of sun worship came from): http://en.wikipedia.org...

Mesopotamia: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Bronze Age: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Iron Age India: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Incidentally, the Aztecs could have been worshipping the sun for millennia, but we'll never know. Muchas Gracias Conquistadores. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Ancient Egypt: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Invention: http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 2
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
Con did very well in this debate. Pro could have provided us with sources, of which there are many, concerning the origins of religion and could have brought up rulers thought to be Gods, not because they said it, but because people believed it. Pro had a lot of avenues to take, but chose the wrong one. Nice job, Con.
Posted by parithosh93 7 years ago
parithosh93
I am referring to the fact that fabricate means invent, create.
Posted by Logician 7 years ago
Logician
There are two definitions of "fabricate" on Merriam-Webster.com. They are:

1 a : invent, create b : to make up for the purpose of deception
2 : construct, manufacture; specifically : to construct from diverse and usually standardized parts

To clarify: which of these definitions are you using?
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Vote Placed by Rockylightning 7 years ago
Rockylightning
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