The Instigator
Akhenaten
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
SM2
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The immune system is iodine based

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/2/2015 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 613 times Debate No: 81910
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (0)

 

Akhenaten

Pro

I propose that humans can't stay healthy without natural iodine. Natural iodine comes from food sources as opposed to elemental iodine which is manufactured in a factory. This basic fact shows that immunization is ineffective and a waste of time and money.
SM2

Con

I would rebut your points, but AWSM0055 has already done that in the comments section. Since it's the same information, I'm just going to plagiarize what they posted:

Posted by AWSM0055 3 hours ago

"Bollocks. iodine is iodine. The ELEMENT iodine is what humans need. Too much kills you.

Nuff said.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

http://www.health.harvard.edu...

http://www.livescience.com...

And no, iodine does not sort the problems vaccines do.

Lack of iodine causes thyroid problems and brain damage.

Iodine is used for metabolism hormones and messages in the body

Vaccines are for the immune system

Totally different."

Your turn.
Debate Round No. 1
Akhenaten

Pro

First, you shouldn't use other peoples poor research to fight your own battles.

Secondly, you think that nature made a mistake when it created humans and that doctors know more than nature and can do a much better job. lol

I am sorry to have inform you that nature doesn't make mistakes but doctors often do.

Immunization is a primitive carry over from our prehistoric past when tribes used initiation rites of animal blood which was mixed with human blood. This was done because primitive people thought that the animals spirit could be transferred to humans in the hope that the animals strength could be transferred.

Vaccination is just a remnant of these prehistoric practices which have somehow persisted through to the technological era. Edward Jenner, who was a poorly educated rich boy, revived this ancient practice and earned himself a bit of fame and fortune in the process.

Devious individuals have seized upon this opportunity to make a handy profit from this snake oil practice. Even well meaning governments have swallowed this nonsense and now provide funding to vaccine makers.

The thought of using dead and diseased animal tissue mixed with toxic chemicals could somehow improve one's health is totally ridiculous.

The human immune system is an iodine based system. It needs natural iodine from plants and animals to function properly. Note - Elemental iodine is toxic and not recommended.

http://drsircus.com...

http://www.naturalnews.com...

http://www.naturalnews.com...

What Jenner didn't know is that the modern diet was the blame of most disease. Grain, sugar and dairy are unnatural foods which the human body can't properly deal with. The result is sickness and disease. Thus, colds, whooping cough and flu which are attributed to germs, is really an allergic reaction to grain, sugar and dairy foods.
SM2

Con

Considering that Nature shapes via Evolution, and 3/4 of the forces of Evolution are random, it stands to reason that Nature is capable of doing a shitty_job. Or, rather, that a doctor with an objective (curing disease) can do a better one.

Vaccination works via the adaptive immune system, which recognizes foreign antigen in the body and destroys it. I'm not going to give you a crash course on immunology. You can do that for yourself here: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your sources are pseudoscience.

Your "argument" is an unfounded accusation of malice.

The only part you got right is that iodine is toxic. However, that is also why it cannot be involved in the immune system: it kills immune cells (all cells, for that matter). The only part of the body that uses iodine is the thyroid gland, and it's in the form of a trace element (an element required in minuscule amounts).

Your claim that colds are an allergic response to grain consumption is "Not Even Wrong", and thus unworthy of rebuttal. https://en.wikipedia.org...

Humans are actually able to digest grains, thanks to the last 10,000 years of our evolution (in which grains formed a large part of our diet).

You have not, and cannot, meet burden of proof.
Debate Round No. 2
Akhenaten

Pro

Quote - Considering that Nature shapes via Evolution, and 3/4 of the forces of Evolution are random, it stands to reason that Nature is capable of doing a shitty_job. Or, rather, that a doctor with an objective (curing disease) can do a better one.

Reply - Nature has had 2 billion years to get it right. All the big mistakes were made millions of years ago. Nature is only making small refinements to evolution now. Humans are the leading edge of the evolution game. We are the result of super refinement and are the best adaptors thus far. It is unlikely that the leading edge species would have so many basic faults and inadequacies. It is far more likely that a few stupid humans got it wrong 200 years ago and created a faulty germ theory to highlight their own inadequacies.

It should be noted that Edward Jenner's siblings and children all died at a very young age. If one can't save the life of one's siblings and children, then, what good is vaccination? lol
In 1810, his oldest son, Edward, died of tuberculosis. His sister Mary died the same year and his sister Anne 2 years later. In 1815, his wife, Catherine, died of tuberculosis (17). Sorrows crowded in on him, and he withdrew even further from public life. In 1820, Jenner had a stroke from which he recovered. On January 23, 1823, he visited his last patient, a dying friend. The next morning Jenner failed to appear for breakfast; later that day he was found in his study. He had had a massive stroke. Edward Jenner died during the early morning hours of Sunday, January 26, 1823.

Quote - Vaccination works via the adaptive immune system, which recognizes foreign antigen in the body and destroys it. I'm not going to give you a crash course on immunology. You can do that for yourself here: https://en.wikipedia.org......

Reply - And how does the body destroy a pathogen? Answer - By using iodine and oxygen! The body can only destroy a pathogen if it has iodine to carry the signalling hormones. No iodine - no signal - no cure.

Your "argument" is an unfounded repository of ignorance.

Quote - The only part you got right is that iodine is toxic. However, that is also why it cannot be involved in the immune system: it kills immune cells (all cells, for that matter). The only part of the body that uses iodine is the thyroid gland, and it's in the form of a trace element (an element required in minuscule amounts).

Reply - If iodine kills all cells, then what the hell is it doing in the thyroid gland? Your logic is just ridiculous nonsense and gibberish. You are getting desperate and just stabbing in the dark.

Iodine facts -http://articles.mercola.com...
In total, the human body can hold 1,500 mg of iodine
Your thyroid can hold a maximum of 50 mg of iodine
20 percent of the iodine in your body is held in your skin (if your skin is depleted of iodine, you will not be able to sweat)
32 percent of your body's iodine stores are in your muscles (if muscles are depleted, pain and other fibromyalgia symptoms can develop)

Quote - Your claim that colds are an allergic response to grain consumption is "Not Even Wrong", and thus unworthy of rebuttal.
Humans are actually able to digest grains, thanks to the last 10,000 years of our evolution (in which grains formed a large part of our diet).

Reply - Dr. Maria Scunziano-Singh, M.D., is a board certified primary care physician with Access Healthcare, LLC. She discussed the importance of taking care of your sinuses as these spaces, in responding to food and other environmental conditions, become blocked, obstructed or clogged from inflammation.

"Sinus pressure and pain with eye fatigue, nausea and dizziness are predominately caused by dietary choices," she said. "Regular consumption of yogurt, breads and most commercial processed/boxed cereals with cow's milk on top will contribute to your problems."

Many people are milk intolerant and wheat intolerant as well, she added.

"These two categories will and can cause major upset, not only to the sinuses but the intestinal tract, among other systems," Scunziano-Singh said.

Dairy products, wheat, most flour based foods (pasta, bread, cakes, etc.), processed foods, processed meats, ice cream, other frozen deserts and iced or chilled drinks can clog sinus cavities.

http://www.grainbininc.com...
SM2

Con

"Nature has had 2 billion years to get it right."

3.5 billion.

"All the big mistakes were made millions of years ago. Nature is only making small refinements to evolution now."

All changes are "small refinements", they just stack up over millions of years. And Nature still makes mistakes, as evidenced by all the genetic/developmental disorders that people can have.

"Humans are the leading edge of the evolution game. We are the result of super refinement and are the best adaptors thus far. It is unlikely that the leading edge species would have so many basic faults and inadequacies."

Um... no.

First, there is no "game". Evolution doesn't have an objective. It doesn't seek to improve. Improvements are random and subject to trial and error.

Second, human bodies are very poorly adapted to their environment. The only reason we've thrived is because we're inventors - i.e. we improve upon what Nature gave us. Even that has a huge trade-off, since our intelligence requires a large brain, and a large head makes childbirth extremely dangerous, which is why it was a major cause of death for women before modern medicine.

"It is far more likely that a few stupid humans got it wrong 200 years ago and created a faulty germ theory to highlight their own inadequacies."

Or, since our life expectancy and standard of living have skyrocketed since then, it's more likely that a few stupid people today don't know what they're talking about.

"It should be noted that Edward Jenner's siblings and children all died at a very young age. If one can't save the life of one's siblings and children, then, what good is vaccination? lol"

Edward Jenner created a vaccine against smallpox. It was very primitive by our standards, and also very dangerous.

You misunderstand how vaccines work. A vaccine doesn't bestow blanket immunity to everything. It immunizes against a specific antigen. A vaccine against smallpox will immunize you against smallpox, but will not immunize you against tuberculosis.

"And how does the body destroy a pathogen? Answer - By using iodine and oxygen! The body can only destroy a pathogen if it has iodine to carry the signalling hormones. No iodine - no signal - no cure."

No, it uses digestive enzymes, which don't involve iodine. And signalling hormones don't work that way. I could explain the biology behind them, but you wouldn't understand it.

"If iodine kills all cells, then what the hell is it doing in the thyroid gland?"

Hence the term "trace element". You need a touch of iodine, but too much will harm you.

"Dr. Maria Scunziano-Singh, M.D. [blah blah blah]"

One un-sourced crackpot does not a case make.

You have not met your burden of proof. You have not proven that the immune system is iodine-based or that it involves iodine in any way. Your sources are not credible. You don't understand how Evolution works. You don't understand how vaccines work. You don't understand the difference between a trace amount and a toxic amount of an element. You also seem ignorant of the effect that modern medicine has had on human life, and the suffering that occurred in its absence. That suffering still occurs today in many third-world countries. Somehow, I doubt you would be pushing alternative medicine if you lacked first-world comforts.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Jonbonbon// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Pro's job was to prove agains the norm. He did not do that as con adequately shot down that iodine helps the immune system, rather providing that it destroys your immune system.

[*Reason for removal*] The voter needs to do more than state that Pro failed in his burden and Con "shot down" his argument. There were multiple responses to the argument the voter cites as effective from Con, and the voter needs to address them.
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Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
Natural iodine is an organically viable form of iodine which comes from food sources and not from chemically manufactured sources.
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
Jonbonbon voted for somebody who stated as his evidence " that iodine kills all cells" This is a totally ludicrous statement which doesn't make any sense. Jonbonbon is clearly biased in her voting and should not be trusted in future.
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
Quote -A bit of anecdotal evidence here, but not to long ago (just last week actually) I got the flu from my father. Now, me and my father eat ENTIRELY different things. He like toast and bacon, I like fish and vegetables. Now, tell me, how in hells name did I get the EXACT same virus at the EXACT same time with DIFFERENT diets?

Reply - The flu can be from grain, sugar, alcohol and dairy. Any large amount of these foods will give flu symptoms.
Also, there are other factors which can contribute to flu creation. These may include - how much food (too much) Note - salt and sugar added to food will make you eat twice as much as what the body can handle, thus you get sick. Then, there is when you eat. If you eat after 11pm you are asking for trouble, because the digestive system needs to shut down by 1 am. Thus, if you eat after 11 pm your gut is not going to meet this deadline and you may get sick. Thus, too much food and eating after the 11 pm curfew will create a large amount of undigested food in the gut which will go foul by morning.
Posted by AWSM0055 1 year ago
AWSM0055
Also, props to con fro wrecking face in that debate and for using my arguments in the comments section. You did well, considering that most of Pro's arguments were anti-science woo.

Also, Pro is being self contradictory when he/she says "You shouldn't use other people's research to fight your own battles"

ALL websites and books that you base your arguments off are works based of other peoples research. It doesn't matter if they are from a comments section or a respected medical website.

As long as you make a reference or credit the original author/writer, your fine.

Whether the research is accurate or not is entirely different.
Posted by AWSM0055 1 year ago
AWSM0055
A bit of anecdotal evidence here, but not to long ago (just last week actually) I got the flu from my father. Now, me and my father eat ENTIRELY different things. He like toast and bacon, I like fish and vegetables. Now, tell me, how in hells name did I get the EXACT same virus at the EXACT same time with DIFFERENT diets?

Your probably going to reply with someone nonsensical gobbledygook anyway, so why do I bother...
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
Quote - Why do you need an immune system if germs don't exist? And if a poor diet causes disease, then how come people get better without changing their diet? How come they remain that way for months without getting sick again? How come if you are eating a steady diet and don't get sick very often, then you drink out of the same cup as someone who has mono, you also get mono?

Reply - I never said "germs don't exist". "Germs are the result of a disease, not the cause of it" Antoine Bechamp.

When people get sick they usually stop eating. This is because they have a toxic build-up from over-eating. When they have fasted for a period of time, the rubbish in their gut clears and they get better.
It is hard to prove that you got a disease from another person. What evidence do you have? None!
It is most likely that you are eating the same rubbish foods as your friends and you all get sick at approximately the same time. Note - Dairy, sugar and grain foods will make you sick very quickly if eaten too often.
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
And you know the element "iodine" is natural iodine right? Like the element is literally the purest for of iodine?
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
Why do you need an immune system if germs don't exist? And if a poor diet causes disease, then how come people get better without changing their diet? How come they remain that way for months without getting sick again? How come if you are eating a steady diet and don't get sick very often, then you drink out of the same cup as someone who has mono, you also get mono?
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
The thyroid and iodine is a blood purifier. Halogens like chlorine, fluorine and bromine replace iodine and cause disease and immune system dysfunction. The medical system, manufacturers, food makers, swimming pool operators, water supply systems use these toxic chemicals which cause immune system breakdown.
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