The Instigator
JOhn_D.5ilver
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Anti-atheist
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The individual does not have free will, everything is pre-determined.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/24/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 623 times Debate No: 31632
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

JOhn_D.5ilver

Pro

Lead us to the pre-determine direction and from there we will debate further.

I most of the time get the criticism of lack in evidence and speculation. Well you are an intelligent being so try and figure it out for yourself. I do not use external sources, I simply use what I know now. If you can't prove it wrong just say it.

I must add that this is to uncover the truth or at the very least convince the other of her/his wrong.

Anti-atheist

Con

I accept. Bring it
Debate Round No. 1
JOhn_D.5ilver

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting and looking forward to your responses. I will start by presenting a few facts and afterwards I will implement them. If you do not state them as facts for not knowing whether it's true or not you did not have the right qualification to enter this debate.

Facts:

1.] The subconscious stores all the information

2.] Your emotions are linked with this information giving it personal meaning

3.] At birth you know nothing or very little

4.] Every individual is different

5.] The environment is a huge factor in designing the kind of person you are going to become

6.] Appearances can be deceiving

Quick Example:

Put two very young individuals into the same environment and they will grow up differently.

Putting all of this previous mentioned to together and you will get the person you are now. The way your life will come to stand is defined by the paths you are going to take. All influenced by the type of person you are in which the information stored in the subconscious is not by your choice put, but by the circumstances that formed you and by it given direction in your life.

Further explanation:

With the information you have at that moment the situation you will enter is going to put you in what I call the path of enforced direction. How does this work and how do you respond to it? The fact is that the situation you are in is not really forcing you to anything, but it is giving you the enforced idea that you should react to it.

(2) Quick example:

A car is heading your way. Enforcing you to react to it.

Now from it the information this situation had provided it goes into your subconsciousness where it together with the information you possess at that moment will force you into the path you are going to follow. You do not choose from the possibilities (using the quick example 2) to go either to the left, right or do nothing, and so on the possibilities grow depending on the situation and the information you possess. Now you will understand that certain individual have the capability to think faster or slower which will affect in what path they will fall. The individual by it either has more or less options. Stated for the results people witness making it look like people choose because they have options. The options are presented in the field within your subconscious and the one that fit best be ruled as victorious and be the one you follow.

Primary example:

See it as game design character where the individual has certain levels. The characteristics are displayed and such things as tolerance, patience, anger and everything else is based on these levels. Say your anger level is low and in a situation this area is tested. The possibilities are presented, but at that moment you will already know what will happen. The lowness of that level will force the direction and the reaction will be a personal manifestation, but nevertheless will it be anger based.

Simplistically described the idea of what I mean. Of course other information will come into play that in a certain type of situation will involve other fields to react as well. For instance, if a female is pushing his buttons the enforced idea of not hitting her because that is the information he possesses will come into play. For you see he is raised with the idea that hitting females is wrong. Now obviously in another situation he might break that rule, but that is because she (representing the external force) is no longer within his level to maintain it and thus breaking that rule automatically.

By now I will have laid down the principal of every route you take depends on the information you possess that is not chosen by you because you cannot choose it is done for you. You simply follow whatever path is formed.



Anti-atheist

Con

Free Will Argument 1

Pro says we don't have free will hes using free will to say we don't have free will. They fact you can disagree with free will, is evidence that free will exists!

Free Will Argument 2
  1. If you assume you have free will, and you do, then you can use it to direct your life; thus a huge gain.
  2. If you assume you don't have free will, and you do, then you are wasting the only thing over which you have any choice; thus a huge loss.
  3. If you assume you have free will, and you don't, there is no loss or gain since you had no choice in the matter.
  4. If you assume you don't have free will, and you don't, there is no loss or gain since you had no choice in the matter.

Therefore regardless of whether free will exists or not, you should live based on the assumption that you do have free will and that your choices do matter

Free Will Argument 3

  1. (Ax. 1) We accept morality on intuitive grounds.
  2. (P1) Morality implies rationality.
  3. (P2) Rationality implies free will.
  4. (C) From (Ax. 1), (P1), and (P2), we conclude free will.

Other guys argument


Other guy sais since we base actions on emotions we don't have free will. We choose to have these emotions. If Im angry Im chosing to be angry and therefor chosing anything that follows from being angry! The argument dies there. We choose our emotions. If were sad we would choose not to move out the way when a car hits us. We actually do choose in a split second to not get hit by the car!
Debate Round No. 2
JOhn_D.5ilver

Pro

I state the disappointment in my opponent's response and ask of him to read my arguments again and to be honest to yourself to whether you understand it or not. I don't see any counter arguments specifically addressed to what I said and your reply doesn't make any sense.

Free Will Argument 1

You state that I am using free will to say there is no free will. If I knew nothing about the topic I wouldn't be able to state with arguments that it didn't exist because I wouldn't have the information to state it. Next is the huge leap from saying that because I disagree with free will it automatically is evidence that it does exist. As I stated in my previous arguments the reasons for this not to be true. By that I can tell you might have read it, but didn't understand the posted arguments.

Free Will Argument 2

You need to enlighten me on this because I read it and I don't understand how this is relevant. We are here or apparently I am here to debate or talk to myself about whether it exists or not. It has nothing to do with it being beneficial.

Free Will Argument 3

I can go on about how this is not true, but I can't know for sure you will understand it. I will let you explain in detail how rationality implies free will. I agree with the first two points.

Other guys argument

'We choose to have emotions'. How do we choose our own emotions? You say we choose to be angry, really? You just feel angry because a certain cause triggered it. Whether you respond to it depends on the information you possess. You state it like you take a few seconds to yourself and then activate your emotions consciously. Not to say it can't be done like that, but that takes a certain skill thus implying effort and not how it normally goes. 'we actually choose in a split second to not get hit by the car'. It's called the desire to live, survival instinct.


I strongly recommend you really put an effort in understanding the arguments I posted and from that point if you still disagree make references to it with counterarguments so that this debate can go on. The level of your reply is far below average.




Anti-atheist

Con

Anti-atheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
JOhn_D.5ilver

Pro

Another debate gone to waste.
Anti-atheist

Con

Anti-atheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Nimbus328 3 years ago
Nimbus328
I would accept the debate.
No votes have been placed for this debate.