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The marijuana, evolution, gay marriage debate take 2

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,869 times Debate No: 71178
Debate Rounds (5)
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I have been involved with 15 debates regarding these subjects. The reason I'm compelled to debate these topics is that I just don't get it... At all!!!! Marijuana should be legal, evolution should be recognized as the current prevailing predictive model, and homosexuals are at the mercy of mass homophobia! I'm not saying that these statements are infallible. They are simply my conclusion. I'm trying to open my mind to the counter arguments but they only to continue to baffle me.

This will not be a typical debate. These subjects can not be properly argued without first understanding the concepts themselves. I would ask that my opponent acknowledges my concerns and does not blindly charge into this debate with arbitrary statistics. This debate will remain civil if both sides truly grasp the subjects we are discussing without biased opinions like "Gay people can't make children", "Marijuana is bad for your health" or " I didn't come from no monkey"! These are honest to God responses I get on these subjects. All I can do is face palm. There has to be someone out there that can help me with this.

1. Why is marijuana illegal? Seriously? Not one single argument an be made to support this ridiculous debate!
a. Marijuana is bad for you! Yeah so is life, should that be illegal? McDonald's, Red bull and playing football is "bad for you" should we make people who enjoy those things criminals?
b. The children will have better access. Sooo... is that remedied with prohibition? Not even close in fact the current methods of obtaining marijuana is through black market alley meets through dealers who also might sell other harmful products. If they end up getting it from a government regulated facility it might be a deterrent from the access of truly harmful substances.
c. Marijuana makes you lazy. As that may be a common issue with marijuana.. think about all of the horrible things that are perpetuated in the spirit of "getting things done" Also marijuana isn't cheap, you need a job to buy it; enter the secret pot head work force of America! That's right we are painting your houses, delivering your pizzas and creating some of the most elaborate and beautiful works of art in every form! In short, "getting things done" is relative to what actually NEEDS to be done!

2. Is homophobia the reason for the gay marriage crisis? It has to be! I've seen 3 arguments against gay marriage
a. they cannot procreate.... and that's reason to oppress them how? Overpopulation, orphans, and common sense kill that argument fast! But I see it everywhere as if adding to the exponential threat of over population is somehow rewarded with the an exclusive claim on marriage!
b. The current "definition of marriage"! People are actually looking to Webster for his expertise on this subject. Isn't the purpose of this debate to change the current obsolete definition? "I don't like change" is not an appropriate reason to claim the authority over a minority.
c. "Gay people make bad parents". Yeah so do many straight people.. need proof? Walk outside and greet your sociopath neighbor who dictates a militant Christian household. Or how about Mr. and Mrs. Alcoholic trailer mutants who are protected by the government to have as many Welfare babies as they want! The basis for this argument stems from bias Google searches! In my experience if you want to find evidence to support the parental abilities of homosexuals.. its out there! If you think they create a more dangerous environment than the current foster/orphanage system.. I assume you didn't look in the right spot for your information!

3. Evolution: Lets be clear.. No one has a problem with "evolution". We see it everywhere (especially technology). The controversy is with Darwin's theory of Evolution through Natural Selection.
a. "Its just a theory" My response will be in most cases; "Look it up yourself" Would you believe me if I told you that Scientific Theory holds up in court. Discover a wealth of information to support how this theory is more than enough to justify its rank as the most obvious answer! The funny thing is most of the people who cannot accept natural selection and claim that the scientist weren't actually there to witness macro evolution therefore the entire science community should hang up the towel in shame. also believe the bible as "evidence" for the nonsense they believe.. guess what.. You weren't there either!
b. "I didn't come from a monkey": Good job little buddy! Its inspirational to know you don't have to be educated to throw your hat in this ring. That's right You Did NOT come from monkeys. No one said you did. But you instantly went on the defensive. We ARE Primates.. Deal with it. We are members of the African Apes. Family, but not offspring to ... get this.. other primates. Mind Blown Yet? Look I know I'm being crass but Only accept this if you are educated and you will earn my respect instead of condescension.
c. Noah's Ark/ Garden of Eden: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah... ohhh wait.. your not kidding? Wow.. I really do not know what to say.. *walking away slowly with both hands in the air*

As you can tell I'm at wits end. I want this to be the end all of these subjects. Will you help me put this baby to bed? BTW you can tell my frustration does not come from opposition, it comes from ignorance!


1. Why is marijuana illegal?
Well, it isn't illegal everywhere anymore.

A. Drugs are addictive. A drug user cannot make an informed and rational decision to continue using drugs because the use of the drug eliminates that user"s ability to think logically. Nor can they disseminate themselves from drug taking.

B. Drug use is not just dangerous for the user. Violence has always been associated with the use of drugs and neglect of children by drug-addicted parents. Drug dealers will sell to anyone, even children, as long as they get money. Legalizing marijuana shows children that drug use if acceptable and it is okay for them to use. Teenagers do all sorts of things these days because it isn't illegal and adults do it too. They think smoking is some kind of pathway to adulthood and it makes them cooler if they puff a cigarette, which causes more people to end up with cancer. Drinking is okay too, because it's like some kind of rite of passage. They think that once they finally have their first drink, it shows their adults now, but instead it leads to even more deaths each year. And you actually want to legalize marijuana, causing the same thing to happen. Eventually, teenagers will think that it makes them adults when they start using it, just creating more problems, drug addicts, and most likely, more criminals. Children have always been a big part of the marijuana debate. If you don't think that's enough reason, then you"re basically saying, "Oh, it's bad for the children, who cares, make it legal anyway, they're not important."

C. Marijuana is terrible for your mental and physical health. I know that you said that everyone has argued that before, but as I said with the children, it has always been the main argument against marijuana. Marijuana causes persistent impairments in neurocognitive performance and IQ, and is associated with increased rates of anxiety, mood and psychotic thought disorders. Constant users of marijuana have worse lung problems than smokers. For children whose mothers have smoked marijuana it has resulted in birth defects, mental abnormalities, and increased risk of leukemia in children.

"It's bad enough that we already lose so many Americans to cigarettes, alcoholism, and drunken driving. Do we really want to endorse the loss of millions more potentially productive Americans via Marijuana? Do we move on from there to Crack, Heroin or Meth? Some people would say, "If they want to do it, great, then it's no business of ours." But, you can also bet that those same people will be complaining about all the junkies and welfare cases that will be created by the policy they endorsed.
So, ask yourself a few key questions. Is legalizing Marijuana going to make this a better country or a worse one? Would you want to live in a neighborhood filled with people who regularly smoke marijuana? Would you want your kids regularly smoking pot? Now is the time to think about it because although it's easy to thoughtlessly legalize a drug like marijuana, when things go predictably wrong down the road, it will be a lot harder to put the genie back in the bottle than people seem to think." (John Hawkins)


2. Is homophobia the reason for the gay marriage crisis?
Homophobia, again! Seriously, where do people come up with this? I want to start out by saying I am not a religious homophobe. Yes I'm a Christian and I have morals, so what? You have your argument and I have mine. Personally, I don't get why Christians are considered that. I mean we aren't even scared of homosexuality, we just don't approve of it. We don't hate them, we aren't scared of them, so...?

A. First of all, we were made male and female. :) Our body parts have a natural coordination that reproduces children. How can two males or two females create a child? They can't. They have to rely on others to have a child. Marriage is not just about intimacy, it is merging oneself with the other sexual half.

B. An increasingly large body of scientific evidence indicates that the intact, married family is best for children. No child would want to have to make a choice between a mother and a father. It is a horrible position to put children in except they can't choose, since it's already done. Any child raised under a same sex marriage faces a tremendous loss- either no mother or no father. Mothers and fathers are fundamentally important to the development of children, and therefore to the future of the nation, which depends upon the development and maturation of the next generation. I am not saying that Homosexuals aren't bad parents; it just isn't the best situation that a child should have to live.
- Homosexual marriage with men prevents the children from having a mother. Mothers provide emotional security and reading the physical and emotional cues of infants. Also they help with things that men will never be able to do, the physical, emotional, and social challenges associated with puberty and adolescence. When a woman has sex with another, it doesn't make one of them a father. Once you decide which one is the father and which is the mother, she is still a women.
- Homosexual couples that use IVF or surrogate mothers create a class of children who will have to live apart from their mother or father. Kyle Pruett, Yale Child Study Center psychiatrist, reports that children of IVF often ask their single or lesbian mothers about their fathers. Everyone knows that fathers reduce the likelihood of antisocial behavior and delinquency in boys and sexual activity in girls. A recent study of father absence on girls found that those who grew up apart from their biological father were more likely to experience early puberty and a teen pregnancy then girls who spent their entire childhood in an intact family. If you"re raised in a home without a father, most likely you will drop out of school, take or sell drugs, or go to prison.

You can read the full article where I got my facts and information from here:

3. Evolution
The debate about evolution has always been and always will be about man evolving from apes. Not technology or anything else. Since I am currently debating this with someone else I will give you the link to look at my other argument. I will probably just say everything I said in that debate. If you want more scientific facts from me then just say so and I will write it on the next round.
Debate Round No. 1


Holy Crap Dude... Did you read my opening post? You bombed this debate with the same nonsense that compelled me to start this debate in the first place. First you make cookie cutter arguments about the harmful effects of marijuana. If that was reason to consider it illegal.. McDonald's, Pepsi, Budweiser, Marlboro, Football, swimming, creating waste.. etc are all harmful. Do we make those illegal. You are also forgetting the sea of harmful pharmecuetical drugs that are given to patients willy nilly! Find a new angle.. cause I'm not buying it. My problem is if the people who claim authority over me do not pick their battles (or at least explain why this is even a battle) I cannot take them seriously and wonder if I need them at all. Everything you wrote about depends on prohibition being the remedy for marijuana abuse.. Clearly it is not! The only thing that would change is where the money goes. Apparently you support the black market because they are the only ones benefiting from this! Also your comparison to meth and heroine shows your amerature status.. its hard to take you seriously on this subject!

You made the argument of procreation justifying the denial of gay marriage.. again this only proves you not only did not read my opening post, but you also made the second worst argument next to the (bestiality, necrophilia marriage) You have only proved once again that homophobia is the only possible answer. (It doesn't mean you think they are hiding under your bed) Why else would you think procreation is reason to oppress a minority!

Evolution: "man evolving from apes" WE ARE APES!!!!! We did not evolve FROM apes or monkeys.. I think you may want to rethink your other debate on this topic. Its clear that you are uneducated. Why throw your hat in this ring?


1. First of all, I have some friends that have a marijuana farm next to their property. It has made their property be zero in value. The people that are growing it are using the water from a well to water the plants, this has caused water problems for the surrounding neighbors and is totally forbidden in the area we live as I am sure it is in other areas. They have sent us pictures of people carrying AK47"s and have had them point them in their face because they happen to be walking on their own land and the growers didn"t have a clue as to where their property line was. They were suppose to only plant for medical reasons but got greedy and planted more plants than they were supposed to so they could sell regular marijuana causing all types of unsavory characters to come in and out of the area day and night. The dog they had on the property to guard things came over and attack their dog even though they were suppose to have a 6 foot fence built around the property.

If my reasons aren"t enough for you then what"s the point of making a debate if you are so closed minded. You don"t care about children; you don"t care about what it would do to people and their families. So far you have not given any good reason why marijuana should be legalized, you"ve just been trying to shoot down my reasons of why is shouldn"t instead of providing logical reasons why it should. Legalizing it is just going to create more problems, not prevent them and not get rid of any.

You"re comparing food, drinks, sports, and trash to marijuana? Seriously! People are smart enough to know if they don"t NEED a pharmaceutical drug, if they aren"t then that"s their problem. I don"t support the black market. It"s harder to get something if it is illegal. Making marijuana legal will just allow those selling them illegally to do it legally, it doesn"t change anything except that they can"t get in trouble anymore.

2. So if we let everyone marry their own gender, what"s next?

Now we should let homosexuals adopt children the same way every normal married couple can! Then there will be fewer kids in the foster care system, right?

Wait". now we demand to have a national holiday celebrating homosexuals! Yea!

We want our kids learning about homosexuality in school! Change the curriculum and have a required test on it! Have a project based on homosexuality!

You think I"m joking? Just wait five years or more once every state allows homosexuals to "marry". It"ll happen. They already have parades celebrating gays.

3. Apparently you"re blind. I am not an ape, but maybe you are? You sure you"re human, I"m not debating an animal am I? Never heard of man actually being apes, where did that idea come from? If we"re apes then what are those animals in the zoo? Are they man? Did we somehow switch bodies or something? You"re not on drugs yourself, are you?

So, because I don"t believe we"re apes, I"m the uneducated one? More like you are. The more you say, the more uneducated you sound. Please do me a huge favor and actually give reasons and facts to support your argument. It would mean sooooo much to me. :)
Debate Round No. 2


O.K. we are getting somewhere: Con (in his last round) Did not bring up procreation, the harmful effects of marijuana, and gave me insight into why he does not believe in evolution! That is progress and I can work with it!

I was thoroughly entertained by your story about friends living near a pot farm! Unfortunately the issues you have illustrated only shows a few of the many flaws in prohibition. One question you could answer for me: Why isn't alcohol illegal (I'm baiting you to say "because prohibition doesn't work"). Lets make this simple. Marijuana is a plant. An extremely versatile plant. It can grow in many different conditions and can be farmed just like any other plant! The water issue and property line fiasco is a product of improper regulations. If you spend your entire budget trying to battle something instead of regulating it and what do you get.. Pot doesn't go away and the effort and resources are not available to help control the conditions of where and how much you can grow (Just like any other farm). I'm sorry these are reasons to end prohibition not enforce it. If calling me closed minded helps your ego than by all means slander away! The reason marijuana should be legal is not so people can get high, they are going to do that anyways. It is because it is painfully obvious that prohibition doesn't work.. AT ALL.. Not even a little! It was made obvious with alcohol. Unfortunately for all you pot protesters.. until I see alcohol under the same restrictions.. You will forever loses this battle! Yes, food and drinks like fast food and soda are extremely bad for you. They can even kill you (like drowning while swimming) Marijuana can not! Playing football can permanently disable you! Marijuana cannot! You could smoke weed all day every day for 40 years and still take care of yourself. Play one game of football and become paralyzed from the neck down! Should they still play? Yes of course! Even if I'm not as good at answering jeopardy questions should I allow you that authority over me? If the "authority" doesn't pick its battles, we are better without them. BTW every day I'm pushed more towards anarchy as a philosophy! Mostly because I do not trust authority! Personally I would rather the government use the money to help my country (health care and education) instead spending 42 billion annually to be my nanny!

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Gay people adopting children is a GOOD thing! The foster care/orphanage/adoption system is infamous for being broken and or despicable. Its a shame that so many people are protected under law to have as many unwanted and abandoned children as hey want while homosexuals are under scrutiny for trying to help! Think about it. Heterosexuals that had a child and gave it away is PROTECTED! While homosexuals who want to adopt might mess up the child (too late for that)! Homosexuals should be PROTECTED for the same reason we do not dictate who can have children! I would love to go down to my local trailer park and urge the preteen crack head to keep her legs shut but sadly there is not a cosmic force to prevent her from doing so. Since I do not have a solution for that I do have a solution for the poor child who slips by the same legs I urged her to keep closed! That being said.. why not support these children with the benefits of a state recognized marriage! Couldn't hurt right? (please don't use this as a chance to say that it would pave the way for incest and bestiality or that children need one female and one male to love and protect them, because what the child needs is the support of a loving home)

"Now we demand to have a national holiday celebrating homosexuals"- as long as the banks stay open so what. Everyone wants a day to celebrate their "importance" Its the wonderful side effect of being insecure. Give them their day, who cares. If you don't like parades.. don't go!

"We want our kids learning about homosexuality in school! Change the curriculum and have a required test on it! Have a project based on homosexuality!"
So your answer is that you think gays are icky, therefore learning about them is icky? Homosexuality is (whether you like it or not) Biological and in nature! What's wrong with learning about biology? (this will also help with the evolution section). You can pretend its not. But the fact remains.. homosexuality exists in many different species of animals. If you don't want to learn about it just get high before class! jk

"You think I"m joking? Just wait five years or more once every state allows homosexuals to "marry". It"ll happen. They already have parades celebrating gays."

Really? You think? I truly hope so.. for humanities sake! BUT Believe me when I say.. I will not be attending those parades. Did I mention that flamboyancy annoys the crap out of me? Who you are is wildly less important than how you act.

I'm going to firmly stand by this statement: You are a primate and you are NOT educated on this subject! Just like learning about homosexuals.. you decided it was not worth your time. Your convinced and do not care about silly things like evidence and proof! That is why this subject is here! "I am not an ape".. are you sure about that? The evidence says otherwise. I think what you meant to say is "I don't want to be an ape"! Identity crisis much? lolo
If you were educated you would explain how Phylogenetics/Cladistics/Linean Taxonomy/Fossils records and geography/archeology/biology all cross confirm each other and paint a pretty elegant and predictive picture! The evidence is there. If you don't want to educate yourself fine. Just stay out of this battle. You are creating controversy where there is none! You don't want to believe it great. Just don't stifle its progress and live in your own world where Jesus will save you from all the doubt and confusion! Sorry had to be a jerk to prove a point! This topic is the epitome of "pick your battles". If you are familiar with Ray Comfort vs Richard Dawkins. Ray comfort (aka the banana man) has called out Mr. Dawkins on several occasions to debate this subject! Dawkin's explained that if he were to debate Ray it would be like a debate between a reproductive biologist and a proponent of the stork theory on the subject of where babies come from!

"Apparently you"re blind. I am not an ape, but maybe you are? You sure you"re human, I"m not debating an animal am I? "
Now your just monkeying around lol

"Never heard of man actually being apes, where did that idea come from?"
Which gives me the right to assume you have not learned about it.. thus are uneducated! (I don't mean in general, just on this topic)

"If we"re apes then what are those animals in the zoo? Are they man?"

*palm to forehead*
Please do your research.

"You"re not on drugs yourself, are you?"
Nope.. I read a book!

"So, because I don"t believe we"re apes, I"m the uneducated one?"
Whammy! You got it!

"More like you are. The more you say, the more uneducated you sound."

Did you just "I'm rubber your glue" me?

" Please do me a huge favor and actually give reasons and facts to support your argument. It would mean sooooo much to me. :)"

I wanted to but you fell in 3 separate pitfalls in your first round! I will call it a practice round. You were just sticking your tow in to fell the water! Now you need to jump in!


1. I'm glad you were entertained. Sadly though, all of it is true since they made it legal in Colorado. Alcohol has been around for as long as anyone can remember. It would be impossible to get rid of it all. At least with marijuana we still have a chance to make sure it stays contained so we can get rid of it. Water is limited where I live. The person that stared growing the marijuana bought the property and everything else under false pretenses. They said they just wanted an isolated place to raise a family. Then all of a sudden guns are being pointed at people's face if they even take a step in that direction as I said in the last round. It has caused families that actually have kids to be wary and scared that one day their kids might be shot just for playing around that area. Keeping it illegal will prevent that from happening everywhere else. Marijuana can kill you just as other drugs can. At least food, drinks, and sports don"t end up with having guns in your face. You cannot smoke marijuana forever and still be able to take care of yourself, like I said in round one, it can cause mental health problems. Then what?

2. I agree that all children deserve a good and loving home, but what kind of example does that set for them? That they can marry any sex they want, despite how immoral it is?
I do not think homosexuals are icky, they just have a messed up view of marriage. Sure if you love another woman and you are one, why can't it just be sisterly love, instead of marrying each other? The same with men, why can't it just be brotherly love? They just need to open their eyes and realize that their having sex with their own gender, which was never how it was supposed to be. They have this illusion that they love each other but it isn't a spouse kind of love.

3. If you want science to disprove evolution, then by all means, I will provide it! Evolutionists always say that evolution goes too slowly for us to see today, that it takes millions of years. Apparently the evidence is in the fossil records of the past, but no fossils include a single undeniable transitional form with transitional structures in the process of evolving.
The theory of evolution is still a theory for a reason. Just as a dog can't become a cat, apes couldn't have become a human because of DNA. DNA can't be changed. Continuously breeding different dogs together will create another breed, but it won"t create another animal. No species has ever been proven to have evolved in any way.

Please read full article for it would take me a while to actually summarize everything:
Debate Round No. 3


Thanks again to my opponent for staying within the boundaries I had asked for at the beginning! I truly hope you did not feel "trapped".

1. "Alcohol has been around for as long as anyone can remember. It would be impossible to get rid of it all."

So has marijuana. It would be impossible to get rid of marijuana. It would actually be a travesty as the plant itself is extremely versatile. Are you considering the plants extinction?
"Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 " 2010"-
(Annual Causes of Death, By Cause 2013)
Alcohol-Induced Deaths 29,001
Cannabis (Marijuana) 0
I started this subject with a reference to "The boy who cried wolf" Apparently you and the Federal Government see marijuana as a "wolf" I'm not seeing it.. looks like a sheep even when you cut it open. Alcohol however managed to slip into sheep's clothing. Cut that baby open and that wolf is going to kill your baby sister in a drunk driving accident!
The moral of this analogy is that The "Authority" constantly warns me of a threat that isn't there and sanctions a threat that actually exists! Tell me.. Why should I trust this authority to dictate my life for me? Seems like it has it all backwards!

"Water is limited where I live. The person that stared growing the marijuana bought the property and everything else under false pretenses."

You are pointing your blame at the plant when clearly the culprit is the Colorado States regulatory system! That should be a problem with prohibition, not with a government regulated program. Sounds like you need to write your Senator or mayor. I smell a pretty lucrative lawsuit in the favor of the property affected! These "grow spots" will not disappear with prohibition. How else do you think 160 Million people get their weed under prohibition?

"Marijuana can kill you just as other drugs can. food, drinks, and sports don"t end up with having guns in your face."
False, unfortunately for your position the evidence screams otherwise! I used food drinks and sports to illustrate why "marijuana is bad for you" does not constitute prohibition! Having guns waved in your face is a completely different issue! It would be advantageous for them to find out where their property line ends. In this country, thanks to gun enthusiasts, they have every right to protect their property with lethal force, even regardless if they are protecting their livelihood!

"You cannot smoke marijuana forever and still be able to take care of yourself"

I think you can, plenty of people do. Willy Nelson and Tommy Chong may not be the sharpest tools in the shed but they have full capabilities! I don't think you have evidence to back up your statement

"it can cause mental health problems"
In some cases yes. Especially psychosis. (Schizophrenia and other mental disorders are genetic and or progressive regardless of marijuana consumption) Psychosis is indeed a problem. However I would argue that most people (sober or not) suffer the same illness. I just call it superstition! I am NOT superstitious. I know very well where to draw the line in the sand "What is real and what is not" It scares me how many "normal" people cannot determine that line! So I'm not ruling it out as a problem.. but I'm also not considering it as a legitimate basis for prohibition! Again this will not go away with prohibition. Why do you think prohibition works? You seem to be dreaming of a world where a totalitarian dictator would need to step in to see the kind of progression you are hoping for!

2. "That they can marry any sex they want, despite how immoral it is"

That is exactly what this debate is about. I do not think homosexuality is immoral. That is your opinion. I have not been convinced in the slightest to see it the same way! I may not understand homosexuality (I think that's what makes me straight) but I learned by the past mistakes of this countries sordid history to give them the benefit of the doubt. In my experience discrimination or "entitled exclusivity" have become atrocities. Marriage at the end of the day is a financial institution. You claim that homosexuals must change their sexuality to enjoy the benefits of said institution. That would be assuming that you are right and being gay is a choice. I'm sure you found the same evidence I have for this argument which is inconclusive at best. You are taking the guilty until proven innocent approach to this. Which goes against everything that could actually make this the "best country in the world". Stop spouting liberty and justice for all if you do not mean it!

"I do not think homosexuals are icky"
Really? I kind of do. Its most definitely not entertaining nor acceptable to my sexuality. Morally however, I can't help but find an expansive "grey area"! Again I feel as though I'm simply giving them the benefit of the doubt. Clearly I don't accept the bible as my authority on the subject, that may be the reason we will never meet on the same page on this subject.

"Sure if you love another woman and you are one, why can't it just be sisterly love, instead of marrying each other? The same with men, why can't it just be brotherly love? They just need to open their eyes and realize that their having sex with their own gender, which was never how it was supposed to be. They have this illusion that they love each other but it isn't a spouse kind of love."

I'm going to need some evidence on how you came to this conclusion. We may not know everything about homosexuality but in most recent years every piece of evidence suggests that homosexuality is in fact a natural desire among a percentage of many different animal species! Even genetics has found links to identify the natural occurrence of homosexuality. Not to be crass but gross sex is gross sex. Heterosexuals do some messed up things to get off. Should that be reason to deny them marriage? Again, I don't get it either, its icky to me, but that doesn't mean I jump to conclusions and risk enabling some form of hate crime!

3. I'm going to try not be be rude here. I want you to know that we can remove this subject from this debate. This was indeed the "trap" that may have derailed this debate. No one can debate this subject without learning about it first. If you want to be sure about your arguments, you should do the research. Like I said "I didn't come from monkeys" "you weren't there" cats cannot become dogs" "show me the fossils" "DNA can't be changed" "breeding dogs"! All this proves is that your Public School has failed you! You took this stance long before you needed evidence for either side! All I can do here is point you in the right direction. I will give you my 8th grade version because I'm by no means an expert, but I have learned enough to remove any need for controversy!

It would help you to see it like CSI. We may not have been there to bare witness to the event. But it left plenty of evidence behind to illustrate exactly what happened! When learning about natural selection it helps to have a teacher. Try Richard Dawkins. Despite his reputation among Christians and Muslims he is an educator first and foremost. While he may not satisfy your biblical notions, he will at least give you some direction to attack from (Know your enemy).

Fossil records/Geographical placement
Embryology/Molecular Biology
Phylogenetics/Cladistics/Linean Taxonomy

All of these fields cross confirm each other and provides the prevailing predictive model to help us understand our origins. Look it up, then tell me how i'm wrong.. out of charac


Okay, first I want to say that I tried very hard not to include my Christian beliefs in this debate, but it is not possible, since my religion is a forefront for my argument. I'm sure you will use my Christianity to your advantage, just as I am going to be using it for this round. You probably think it is ridiculous to "blindly" follow whatever a book and a so called "made up" God says, but that would go into another debate entirely if I had to explain that to you also.

1. Marijuana

a. Please read:

We are slowly getting off topic with talking about how dangerous other drugs, food, and drinks are, so we might as well get back to talking about marijuana. You can start another debate about other drugs, drinks, and food if you want to debate more about it with someone else.

b. Argument for "Christian" marijuana users:

Many people make the argument that God created the herbs (including marijuana) for us:
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. (Genesis 1:29, KJV)
Marijuana smokers are especially fond of the King James version, since it uses the word "herb". However, the Hebrew word is much less specific, having the general meaning "plant," with the root word having the meaning "green." Also, the verse talks about fruit trees, indicating that the real meaning of the verse is about edible plants. So, the verse makes it clear that God created the plants for us for eating. It doesn't say anything about smoking them.
Here is the same verse in NASB translation:

"Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you."

For non-Christians, as I said earlier, this is probably a really dumb reason why we should not legalize marijuana everywhere else. I already gave you plenty of non-biblical reasons why it shouldn't't, so if that is not enough, then I don"t know what more I can give you.

2. Homosexuality

a. I guess you're getting desperate, since you're going down the "homosexuality is genetic" and "animals show homosexual behavior so it's okay" path. Those are main arguments that homosexuals use constantly to try to prove that it's not their fault and that it's in nature. Homosexuality is not genetic because homosexuals can't have children. They have to rely on someone else. Now animals, if they're homosexual, then how do they reproduce? They don't, so therefore, homosexuality is not genetic, it is defined by "behavior", by what a person "does", it is a choice.

b. Argument for "Christian homosexuals"

It is basically pointless to argue that homosexuality is okay if you are a "Christian" because you will always lose. You are not a Christian if you are okay with homosexual marriage because you are contradicting the Bible. Most homosexuals, not just Christians, use the Bible as their defense. But how can they if they do not understand the Bible and they are not a Christian? They choose certain versus, always the "love thy neighbor as thyself" and "judge not" verses and all of the other love verses, but do they use the verses that specifically condemn homosexuality? Well, if they have, they must have altered the verse significantly.
Some verses that specifically mention homosexuality:
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:26-27
1 Corinthians 7:2
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

My opponent may try to twist these verses, but that would be really ignorant of him. Since he has no Christian knowledge of the Bible it would be impossible unless he also became a Bible scholar or a knowledgeable Christian, even then he could not change what the Bible says.

If you still think that you can be a Homosexual Christian after everything I've given you, then you must have ignored everything I just gave because it is impossible to be both Christian and Homosexual.

3. Evolution
Debate Round No. 4


Finalfan forfeited this round.


Okay, to tell you the truth, I am so glad this debate is over. After some of your arguments I was tempted to just forget about this debate, since it was made clear from the beginning that you would just keep throwing things back at me. I will admit, I will NEVER accept another debate that has three totally different topics again. I was also disappointed, but surprised too that you gave up just because I had a round with my Christian beliefs in it. From your previous arguments I just never thought you would give up that easily. Now my closing argument is just going to be a review basically.

1. Everyone takes marijuana for some kind of problem, to forget or to relieve pain, but soon it becomes the problem. The consequences of marijuana use are most likely worse than the problem you're trying to solve, often causing:
*Impaired memory
*Difficulty thinking and problem solving
*Impaired muscle coordination and judgment
*Increased susceptibility to infections
*Dangerous impairment of driving skills and slowed reaction time. (Studies show that it impairs braking time, attention to traffic signals and other driving behaviors. This impairment can last 12 to 24 hours due to accumulation of marijuana in fatty tissue.)
*Decreased interest in completing tasks
*Cardiac problems for people with heart disease or high pressure, because marijuana increases the heart rate.
*Mental disorders and decreased brain development on younger people
*Respiratory problems

2. Homosexual Marriage
*It violates Natural Law
*Taxpayers, consumers, and businesses would be forced to subsidize homosexual relationships
*Freedom of conscience and religious liberty would be threatened
*It validates and promotes the homosexual lifestyle
*It denies children of either a mother or father
*It turns moral wrong into civil right
*Decreased birth rates
*Demands for legalization of polygamy would grow
*It forces it acceptance on all society
*It is not marriage

3. Evolution
* Complex systems do not evolve bit by bit
*Missing links are still missing
*Mutations are contrary to evolution
*Probability facts are contrary to evolution
*Great scientist from the past and PhD scientists now disprove evolution
*There is no conclusive evidence that supports evolution
Debate Round No. 5
48 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by kman100 3 years ago
" Homosexuality is not genetic because homosexuals can't have children. They have to rely on someone else. Now animals, if they're homosexual, then how do they reproduce? "

The Denver Colorado school system definitely needs a better science curriculum.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
I want to put this baby to bed so I can restore my faith in humanity! I specifically designed this debate with the 3 topics that completely baffle me. I wanted someone to read my first round and decide if they could accept my challenge without falling into the same traps that make these subjects undebatable. "Marijuana is bad for you" Gay people can't procreate" "I didn't come from monkeys"
You people think you are holding an ace when really you are simply making observations and opinions.
1. "Marijuana is bad for you" so is fast food, soda, microwave meals, car exhaust. Alcohol and cigarettes are far more dangerous. Obvious hypocrisy.. no debate! Also please do not compare marijuana to meth and heroin. It sets us back about 60 years.
2. Gay people cannot procreate: Every single person I have debated on this subject uses procreation as the prerequisite for marriage. It was a "reward for continuing the survival of our species". First off overpopulation is the 7 billion pound elephant in the room. Also this implies that allowing homosexuals to marry would somehow affect population growth. We are rewarding trailer park litters and punishing potential adoption candidates. Please do not compare homosexual marriage to bestiality and incest mmmkay.. your embarrassing yourself!
3. "I did not come from monkeys" No you didn't. You also didn't do your homework. Plenty of info on this subject. Might want to learn about it before throwing your hat in the ring!
See how hard is that.. Do Not use these arguments and this debate would have been successful. Pretty simple. My opponent was clearly not the type of person I would have hoped to take this challenge. So when you make arguments I won't instantly want to shame you and walk away! Again, Marijuana should be legal, gay people should be allowed to marry and Darwin hit the hammer on the nail!
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Pascals wager can be reversed! Christians look silly debating evolution and look evil debating gay marriage. So if they are wrong, That would make them a cult of sinister clowns! Whats next? Telling people they are vile without Jesus and they deserve to burn in hell? Maybe a little protest against medical advancements. It would be sad to see this get too far *cough* Westbourough Baptist *cough* KKK *cough* ehem, excuse me! Anyways I trust you are not throwing rocks at pregnant women in front of abortion clinics so I'm not really comparing most Christians to these extremist groups it just raises some questions. Should you be spending your time blindly following a vague interpretation of a book? Isn't that time better spent making sure you are not just shooting holy water in my face out of a flower.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Lord Jesus! Please rapture your followers! On second thought.. I'm not done with them yet!
Posted by Jesus_is_my_savior 3 years ago
Ou don't like it when you're proven wrong do you ;) Got an attitude.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Jesus is my savior: Do us all a favor and stop paying for the internet!
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
4God: Round 4 made me sad. Round 5 made me puke in my mouth a little. As I said, I no longer care about any of your opinions on these subjects. I'm not sure why I entertained this debates to begin with. I should have known the type of person who would respond. No intelligent person would take the Con position, which left me with a delusional misguided regurgitation of arguments that have long since been buried! Need proof check out your quotes like "decreased birth rate" "No conclusive evidence to support evolution" and to paraphrase "marijuana is bad for you" Guess what.. I set the terms for failure in the first round. What did you do? Fail in every aspect. Then you redeemed yourself a little towards the middle. Towards the end you swan dived into the asphalt. I couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again. So here we are in the comments section!
Posted by Jesus_is_my_savior 3 years ago
Apparently you couldn't come up with a response and that's why you actually gave up.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
4God: I read your arguments in round 4. After picking up my jaw and removed my head from my hands. I walked away. I had nothing nice to say! Now, I'm not angry, just disappointed. Anyways I've decided to retire these topics. I'm more than satisfied with my position. Call it stubbornness or call it resolve. Either way... PEACE IM OUT!!!
Posted by m8 3 years ago

If I am you, yes. Otherwise, no.

And I'm surprised you could read that much.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ColeTrain 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture by Pro lost the round from the get-go. Further, however, Con's arguments were more relevant and comprehensive to the debate as well as more logical in nature. Criticisms aside, good job to both debaters. :)