The Instigator
BenYadangsi
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Cliff.Stamp
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

The monotheistic God of the 3 major monotheistic religions should not be worshiped.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Cliff.Stamp
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/2/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,731 times Debate No: 15758
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (20)
Votes (1)

 

BenYadangsi

Pro

To accept, you need to:

- Be able to understand some of this extreme physics I am talking about.
- Have some sufficient knowledge in the concept of infinity.

To whoever accepts: Thank you for accepting the debate.

God does not exist because there is simply no proof or logical statements that can prove it played a role in anything concerning our "universe". In fact, based on the statements of the major monotheistic religions, man should not even know of god's existence. But, our "universe" exists in a multiverse, and so, by definition, there are an infinite amount of possibilities. So, that means that god can exist. But in our possibility, god cannot interact with human in the "universe" we currently live in simply because such a reality exists when there are an infinite number of realities. By definition, that means that there are an infinite number of gods, and infinite number of "universes" that those infinite amount of gods created, and also, there are an infinite number of "universes" that the infinite amount of gods never created, and an infinite amount of "universes" that god can't communicate with, as well as there not being a god at the same time. There are also an infinite amount of the same objects as well as an infinite amount of diverse objects (infinite diversity). There are an infinite amount of "universes" that can't support life, and there are an infinite amount of "universes" that can. This all can exist simply because there are an infinite amount of realities. It also means that there are an infinite amount of universes where there can only be a finite amount of possibilities. If the person who accepts this challenge is confused, I will write it in a few formulae. ∞=∞ Addition: ∞+∞=∞ --> ∞=∞;. Multiplication: ∞*∞=∞ --> ∞=∞. Division: ∞/∞=1, (∞+∞)^∞/∞^∞=1, ((∞/∞)+(∞/∞))^∞=1, (1+1)^∞=1, (∞=1)=undefined, undefined=∞, therefore, ∞/∞=∞. Subtraction: ∞-∞=undefined, undefined=∞, therefore, ∞-∞=∞, because infinity includes all existent, non-existent numerals, and imaginary numerals, variables, and undefined mathematics. Exponents: ∞^∞=∞ --> ∞=∞. This is what you can call epic physics, but we live in the "universe" with our own rules, out of the infinite diverse and same "universes", and the rules of our "universe" are finite, and those rules simply say that god can't exist within our "universe", because his existence contradicts and breaks the rules of our "universe". In our "universe", infinity can't exist in any form except as a concept. From our current understanding of our "universe's" rules also state that no outside force can interfere with anything in our universe, so that leaves us with one of the infinite "universes" that the infinite as well as the one and only god(s) (in a multiverse of infinite possibilities, there can be both an infinite amount of gods, as well as a one and only god, also there can be 0 gods all at the same time, simply because it is possible), that can't be influenced by a god(s). But, even if there was/were (a) god(s), he/she/it/whatever would only be a spectator. A god that can't do crap, like a man watching a TV show. The man can't change anything within the TV show. He can't "enter" the TV and change the program itself. So, why should people worship a/the [possibly] spectator(s) god(s)? They can't do anything. It is pointless to be worshiping something(s) that could possibly exist but not be able to interact with our universe. That is why we should throw out religion and focus on the more important things of life.
Cliff.Stamp

Con

The argument appears to be :

"It is pointless to be worshiping something(s) that could possibly exist but not be able to interact with our universe."

The reasons for this are :
-But, even if there was/were (a) god(s), he/she/it/whatever would only be a spectator.

and this is justified by :
-From our current understanding of our "universe's" rules also state that no outside force can interfere with anything in our universe ...

Pro has taken an interesting approach and does not directly attempt to prove that God does not exist, but attempts to assert that such a being, even if it did not exist could not influence us and thus is not worthy of worship, and he limits influence to the mundane application of what appears to be the fundamental forces.

Before we take exception to the argument fundamentals, a few minor, but still very important clarifications :

"This is what you can call epic physics ..."

This is epic physics :

http://fxpaper.fatalsystem.com...

From :

"very imposing or impressive; surpassing the ordinary" [1]

I have no idea what is keeping those assets in the locked and upright position, but by any definition whatever physics is at play is definately epic.

In regards to :

"In our "universe", infinity can't exist in any form except as a concept."

Here the audience screams black hole, singularity - infinite density. However, if we can unite GR and QM and quantize space and time into plankt quanta this will remove the singularity - in fact there are those who use this as an argument that it is necessary for there to be a unification theory. This however is not the only example of infinity in our universe we have of course the ultimate question[2]. Now some will be quick to dismiss this as the ravings of a mad man, but they are naive and they are the same people who are unaware that the world is actually run by time traveling shape shifting lizard people[3]. There is wisdom there, but it only appears to be nonsense as it is infinite in complexity.

But these small objections aside, let us turn to the meat of the argument that God if he exists can not exert a force on our universe as he does not exist with in it (as far as we can detect), as Pro exhorts by some unsourced principle of physics. First of all consider dark matter, this is argued by science to exist, even though there is no way to detect it - simply because if it exists then it explains what we see. Again, think of this clearly, dark matter can only be verified by what it does it can not be directly observed it therefore by definition exists outside what we can directly detect in the universe. It is something which has the ability to distort gravity but it can not itself be seen.

Now I ask humbly dear readers, is this not what the theist ascribes to God, that it is something which can not be detected by any known means but it has an influence on us, it is what in fact made us, inspires us and is the model by which we can aspire to be all that we can be. Ok, the last part might be Captain America or Batman but the rest of it is definately God. Now why come scientists can talk about dark matter and dark energy and postulate their false idols to worship but a theist can not worship God, it is only acceptable if we have to call him Dark Jesus, is is ok then?

As a point in closing, even if all of the above is true and it is impossible for Dark Jesus to exert a direct force on earth, still should he not be worshipped for being a shining beacon of inspiration. Even if he does not answer your prayers and make Megan Fox appear at will (ok she is kind of skanky now - but pre-crazy vampire movie she was pretty epic in her own right). After all, worship just means adoring reverence[5], thus even if Dark Jesus can not actually turn Gatorade into Budweiser does not the fact that he was killed and returned to life at least give the man some reverence. If Flavor Flav can get a string of TV shows I don't think that is too much to ask for Dark Jesus.

P.P.S

(on a serious note infinite is not a value it can not be used in algebra as noted in the above, infinity is just a term which is used to label a type of set - in lay language a set is infinite if there exists a sub-set with the same cardinality (number of elements)).

[1] http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...

[2]

[3] http://www.rense.com...

[4] http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...

[5] http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 1
BenYadangsi

Pro

Before I can go on any further, I must advise the audience who will be voting after the end of the debate to go to the comments and read my comment describing how the debate was started by someone who got access to my account and created the bogus debate. But, even though he has said many incorrect facts about the concept of infinity and other things, he still created a valid argument of god's existence, and to why it would be useless to worship a possible god or gods.*

For my series of refutes, I will start with his note on the singularity which resides within a black hole:

"Here the audience screams black hole, singularity - infinite density."

1) Here my opponent fails to state the fact that physical laws cease to exist within the singularity and can actually be gateways into the 11th dimension or just a connection between 2 verses, ours having the black hole and the other verse having a white hole (theorized by the infinite ensemble and multiverse theories).[1]

2) The Illuminati are not time traveling shape shifting lizard people. I know, I used to be part of them! Unfortunately, they tried to kill me once I told them about my anarchist ideology. Now I live in secrecy, "invisible to their eyes". If the lizard people statement was true, then I would be a lizard person, unfortunately, I'm not! Nor am I shape shifting, nor do I have the ability to travel through time.

3) Dark matter is detectable, unfortunately, it is extremely small and can pass through most-all objects with ease. Check out the sources on how it can be detectable: [2] & [3]. Also, there are many ways of detecting something even though we can not see it through our eyes (visible light), hear it, feel it, smell it, or taste it. God, on the other hand, cannot be detected by the numerous ways of both direct detection and indirect detection.

4) God is described as "outside of space time", but anything that is outside space & time cannot interact with space time, simply because something that is outside of space time can't interact with space time or anything in space time (so {the} god{s} can't interact in anyway with our verse).

Now, let's get back to the original point, (the) god(s) should not be worshiped.
I do like your point, but you fail to mention the fact that the worshiping of god has led to more atrocities against humanity than any other force on the planet! Bellow, I will provide a list of negative act promoting groups, acts, etc. done in the name of religion:

1) After Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire, the Christians burned down hundreds of pagan temples.
2) The Spanish Inquisition
3) The 9/11 attacks
4) The bombings of abortion clinics
5) After the 9/11 attacks, a lot of abortion-rights groups received 554 envelopes with white powder and letters which read "You have been exposed to anthrax... We are going to kill all of you" and were signed by the army of god.
6) Most terrorist groups
7) The first Intafada
8) The Second Intafada
9) The Holocaust
10) The wars that president George W. Bush waged were in the name of Christianity
11) Most radical groups
12) The Crusades
13) The several child molesters of the Catholic Church
14) Slavery
15) The Buddhist Burma Sacrifices
16) The witch hunts
17) Human Sacrifice in the early American civilizations
18) The Islamic Jihads
19) The Hindu Massacres
and many many more!

Religion can only do harm on humanity, because it restricts one's mind towards becoming stubborn, one -sided, irrational, and ignorant beings. It restricts them from accepting facts and truths and enshrouds them in a delusion. Such a thing can only serve to impede on humanity's progress and will eventually lead to our downfall as a species.

Sources:

[1]: http://www.astronomy.pomona.edu...'s%20mutliverse.html
[2]: http://cdms.berkeley.edu...
[3]: http://eands.caltech.edu...
Cliff.Stamp

Con

"Before I can go on any further, I must advise the audience who will be voting after the end of the debate to go to the comments and read my comment describing how the debate was started by someone who got access to my account and created the bogus debate. But, even though he has said many incorrect facts about the concept of infinity and other things, he still created a valid argument of god's existence, and to why it would be useless to worship a possible god or gods."

I must advise the audience that the same is true for all of the arguments made by Con, while technically they are created by me they are not the actual me who is registered under my account. Unfortunately I suffer from DID[1] and thus anyone who actually wishes to vote against me in this debate should take care as obviously I can not be held responsible for the other I who is actually writing these posts, that is obviously morally unjust under the principles of Utilitarianism (2).

"Here my opponent fails to state the fact that physical laws cease to exist within the singularity and can actually be gateways into the 11th dimension or just a connection between 2 verses, ours having the black hole and the other verse having a white hole (theorized by the infinite ensemble and multiverse theories)."

It was noted that the Black Hole is a singularity (a point of essentially non-physics), but this was not argued to be a point of physical infinity as this can be resolved with application of plankt quantization as previously noted. Even more obvious that that we have empirical evidence that a black hole is not an infinity because Superman has been known to both hold a black hole in his hand, fly in and out of one, and even fly into one and turn around and fly back out just to have a look around[3]. Our current theories are thus obviously just approximations as noted and they are most likely space quantized.

"The Illuminati are not time traveling shape shifting lizard people. I know, I used to be part of them! Unfortunately, they tried to kill me once I told them about my anarchist ideology. Now I live in secrecy, "invisible to their eyes". If the lizard people statement was true, then I would be a lizard person, unfortunately, I'm not! Nor am I shape shifting, nor do I have the ability to travel through time."

It is trivial to refute this position through classical logic, given that there are a secret class of elite lizard rulers it is obvious that they would have the dreaded red headed step child on occasion. Like all such individuals they are a plague on their family and as noted :

--
... an individual or group of individuals who are outcasts, or are typically dealt the worst hand in society. 'I oughta beat you like a red headed stepchild.'
--

It is unfortunate but obvious that you are said red headed step child.

"Dark matter is detectable, unfortunately, it is extremely small and can pass through most-all objects with ease."

There is a claim that dark matter particles can be observed by sufficient shielding of comic radiation, but the same can be said of Dark Jesus. If one was to immerse themselves in an isolation tank and remove all outside stimulus then the only thing that remains is the waves of love of Dark Jesus which can penetrate all known shielding[5]. The only reason such experiments are not performed is the conspiracy of Evolutionauts who control mainstream journals[6].

"God is described as "outside of space time", but anything that is outside space & time cannot interact with space time, simply because something that is outside of space time can't interact with space time or anything in space time (so {the} god{s} can't interact in anyway with our verse)."

God is omnipotent and thus cares little for restrictions of physics, much like in the period of early inflation of the universe, he can break and form physical laws at will, he is much like Franklin Richards in that respect who is an Omega level mutant who can reshape reality as he desires[7]. The only real difference is that God does not have the mental block which prevents full use of his reality shaping powers.

"I do like your point, but you fail to mention the fact that the worshiping of god has led to more atrocities against humanity than any other force on the planet! Bellow, I will provide a list of negative act promoting groups, acts, etc. done in the name of religion"

First of all simply because some but does something and he happens to be religious does not mean that being religous caused the action. It is more likely that the nut would have always done something crazy and just found another justification. It is hardly the case that the only nuts are religious ones, is there really a need to talk about atheist individuals who have committed similar (and even arguable - more extreme events)?

But more to the point we need to talk about what religion has given us and quite frankly no matter what actions are undertaken by a handful of crazy people can ever over take the good that is the Catholic School Girl Uniform[8] and beyond that who does not have found S&M memories of a few sexy nuns and rulers. Ok maybe the last bit is just me but no one would ever have wished to lose the first.

"and many many more!"

Most of these are not actually problems anyway, I mean who would not burn witches. Ok fine, if they are sexy witches like on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but most of the witches burnt were just old hags who sold moldy bread and gave people unintentional acid trips. I can tell you that this is more than a little off putting if you are not expecting it. I am having an acid trip right now and it makes flying this airplane more than a little difficult, so really they should have all been burnt anyway. Plus most of the other issues were caused by the lizard Illuminati anyway.

"Religion can only do harm on humanity, because it restricts one's mind towards becoming stubborn, one -sided, irrational, and ignorant beings. It restricts them from accepting facts and truths and enshrouds them in a delusion. Such a thing can only serve to impede on humanity's progress and will eventually lead to our downfall as a species."

This is obviously trivially false, Newton was a theist, a very devout one and was one of the last great polymaths who contributed to almost every known aspect of science. There is nothing about religion which causes one to be closed minded, that again is just the aspect of being a nut.

Now of course people will immediately cry out that Newton is too old a reference and that more recent and "extreme" aspects of religion now dominate. But this is also false as Dexter[9] is deeply religious and still has devoted his life to science and always in the name of good, and even inspite of Didi's constant aggravating interference never chooses the obvious solution to send her into a black hole.

[1] http://www.medicinenet.com...

[2] http://www.utilitarianism.com...

[3] http://lounge.moviecodec.com...

[4] http://www.urbandictionary.com...

[5] http://www.floattank.com...

[6] http://evillusion.wordpress.com...

[7] http://marvel.com...

[8] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[9] http://www.imdb.com...
Debate Round No. 2
BenYadangsi

Pro

"It is trivial to refute this position through classical logic, given that there are a secret class of elite lizard rulers it is obvious that they would have the dreaded red headed step child on occasion. Like all such individuals they are a plague on their family and as noted :

... an individual or group of individuals who are outcasts, or are typically dealt the worst hand in society. 'I oughta beat you like a red headed stepchild. It is unfortunate but obvious that you are said red headed step child."

I would first like to completely explain what the illuminati really are, and then I will refute the claim that I am a red headed stepchild.

-The Illuminati are actually extra-dimensional prisoners from the inter-dimensional anarchist "council" (a council of delegates from every verse within the finite multiverse, a multiverse with a finite amount of verses that resides within the infinite multiverse). The inter-dimensional council governed all aspects of everything. It consisted of a "high" council, a "middle" council, a "low" council I used to be head of the inter-dimensional council, but that changed when the high council (kind of like the senate of today's U.S. congress) attempted a coup d'etat. I used to have the power of a god, and was the most "powerful" one of them all, but the higher council members had the support of thousands of low council members, while I only had 563 loyal members of the "middle" council. So, a war was waged for about 4.154865*10^357878465575 human years (2 "god" years, as they were called by my species. We have the longest avg. lifetime out of all the living species within the finite multiverse).

In the end, I won the war, but I violated inter-dimensional law by accidentally destroying over 20,000 verses in the process. So, the "gods" of justice, the law, and judgment sentenced me to life in the "prison" sector of the infinite multiverse (A place where all known verses that have such horrible conditions that no being from the finite multiverse would want to live in it.) So, my "powers" were sealed, along with my body, mental capabilities, and parts of my memory. Also, my lifespan was shortened to the size of a humans'. I was then tossed into this verse, which is known as the 2nd degree prison verse (there are only 3 degrees of prison verses), and I was sealed within the body of a black-haired child with multiple personality disorder that currently resides in this planet (they choose random planets, and this was the one that was randomly picked).

After I was sealed, the Illuminati discovered me and let me join their group. I soon learned about their plans for this world, but it conflicted with my desire for a system of anarchy, so I killed the head of the illuminati in the year 2000. After I killed him, I went into hiding, and am now plotting to destroy the illuminati. Unfortunately, his death ended up making things worse because of the replacement head, but at least it is better than what would have happened if the old head was still alive.

So, here are some events that were caused by his death:
-The election of president George W. Bush & vice-president Dick Cheney
-The war in Iraq
-The war in Afghanistan
-The +13 trillion dollar debt
-The war on terrorism
-The Dar fur Genocide
-The absence of intervention in the darfur genocide
-The lowering of NASA's budget
every other shitty, man-made event from 2000-present.

And here are a list of things that would have happened if the old head was still alive:
-The conquering of the whole middle-east
-The genocide of all Muslims
-The destruction of all communist countries
-The destruction of all poor people in the U.S.
-The genocide of all agnostics/atheists/anti-religious people.
-World War III
-A huge depression along with hyperinflation that would almost be as bad as Zimbabwe's hyperinflation.

"There is a claim that dark matter particles can be observed by sufficient shielding of comic radiation, but the same can be said of Dark Jesus. If one was to immerse themselves in an isolation tank and remove all outside stimulus then the only thing that remains is the waves of love of Dark Jesus which can penetrate all known shielding. The only reason such experiments are not performed is the conspiracy of Evolutionauts who control mainstream journals."

I would just like to say that Dark Jesus was the old head of the Illuminati, you know, the one I murdered... Also, Dark Jesus produces waves of ignorance, corruption, and hatred, not love; that's Light Jesus's wave.

"But more to the point we need to talk about what religion has given us and quite frankly no matter what actions are undertaken by a handful of crazy people can ever over take the good that is the Catholic School Girl Uniform and beyond that who does not have found S&M memories of a few sexy nuns and rulers. Ok maybe the last bit is just me but no one would ever have wished to lose the first."

You claim that there are only a handful of crazy religious people, but about 128,850,000 people are religious[1], and we all should know that religious people are indeed crazy, I mean even a psychologist's paper proves that it's true [2]. Also, most S&M fetishes (major or minor, it doesn't matter) consist of many variations of gags, skin-tight leather lingerie, blindfolds, smooth rope, collars and leashes, and many various fluids each with it's own set of properties focused on enhancing sexual pleasure, or at least mine does...

"This is obviously trivially false, Newton was a theist, a very devout one and was one of the last great polymaths who contributed to almost every known aspect of science. There is nothing about religion which causes one to be closed minded, that again is just the aspect of being a nut."

Yes, but Newton was actually insane, like most scientists, and also he was an alchemist who loved to play & drink mercury, so in some ways he was an ignorant fool, but he was still a brilliant scientist. So, I guess we can call him an insanely brilliant ignorant foolish scientist who was one of the last great polymaths who contributed to almost every known aspect of science.

"Now of course people will immediately cry out that Newton is too old a reference and that more recent and "extreme" aspects of religion now dominate. But this is also false as Dexter is deeply religious and still has devoted his life to science and always in the name of good, and even inspite of Didi's constant aggravating interference never chooses the obvious solution to send her into a black hole."

Seriously, you tried to bring in a cartoon, which is owned by Ted Turner, one of the Illuminati, as a plot to have science support religion, which is also run by the Illuminati.

[1]: http://www.religioustolerance.org...
[2]: http://books.google.com...
(And yes, I did read the whole thing of source 2)
Cliff.Stamp

Con

"So, the "gods" of justice, the law, and judgment sentenced me to life in the "prison" sector of the infinite multiverse"

Now while my esteemed opponent has waged a very careful argument, and which might very well be true, and unfortunately I can only oppose it by telling the actual truth of the matter, a truth that can not be revealed by any true member of the illuminati because as everyone knows, there are three rules to the illumniati

Rule 1 : If it is your first night, you have to make up a consipracy theory'
Rule 2 : You do not talk about the illuminati
Rule 3 : You do not talk about the illuminati

Now my opponent knowing this has tried to force me into a position where I either have to leave his argument uncontested or actually break the rules of the illuminati and this is indeed most very clever, which one would expect if my opponents story was even half true -but- he has made a fatal mistake, not as serious as a blunder as getting involved in a land war in asia, but at least as bad as going against a sicilian when death is on the line. Back in the very first post, he opened with an argument which terminated with the following contention :

"But, even if there was/were (a) god(s), he/she/it/whatever would only be a spectator. A god that can't do crap, like a man watching a TV show. The man can't change anything within the TV show. He can't "enter" the TV and change the program itself. So, why should people worship a/the [possibly] spectator(s) god(s)? They can't do anything."

Yet in his very argument he reveals that the God(s) of which he is part of not only have influenced our world they have done so many times in extremely significant events which are noted by many to have lasting consequences. In short, and unfortunately, in his zest to present his argument he has revealed the truth necessary to actually concede his original contention and the resolution thus stands negated.

"I would just like to say that Dark Jesus was the old head of the Illuminati, you know, the one I murdered... Also, Dark Jesus produces waves of ignorance, corruption, and hatred, not love; that's Light Jesus's wave."

And again, my opponent, in his obvious jealously for Dark Jesus, admits that this most revered individual does influence this world, he just asserts that such influences are negative. Now while we could debate this at a later time, again, his entire opening contention was that Dark Jesus could only be a spectator - he could have no influence. For shame, my opponent has again let his emotions get the better of him and again conceded his original contention to be false and thus negated his own resolution.

But be not afraid, for Dark Jesus will forgive even these sins.

"I mean even a psychologist's paper proves that it's true [2]."

Ironically, Jung was a firm believer in that the nature of all human psyche was religious. He even recommended it as a cure for alcoholism, so much so he is consider to be an influence in starting Alcoholics Anonymous. One of Jung's patients, (Rowland Hazard III) a chronic alcoholic, on Jung's advice joined the Oxford Group (Christian), and spread Jung's message. This message reached Bill Wilson (co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, who documented this in letters with Jung.[1] Thus if anyone was inane it was Jung who apparently had the ability to hold contradictory ideas in his head at the same time - it is no not wonder he could never not see the not glory that is not Dark Jesus never no time.

"Also, most S&M fetishes (major or minor, it doesn't matter) consist of many variations of gags, skin-tight leather lingerie, blindfolds, smooth rope, collars and leashes, and many various fluids each with it's own set of properties focused on enhancing sexual pleasure, or at least mine does..."

Indeed, but just as since there are many people does not mean removing one is without loss, simply because there are many fetishes does not mean the above noted exceptional one can be so trivially discarded.

"Seriously, you tried to bring in a cartoon ..."

Serious Dexter is documented in animation simply because no man besides Dexter could play Dexter and obviously he has more important things to do than entertain us.

In short, while my opponent has made a very strong argument for the illuminati, so much so that Geo may even be forced to rethink his position, he has in his rush to reveal his hand not only forgotten, but conceded his very opening contention. The resolution is thus refuted.

[1]Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. (1984) Pass It On: The Story of Bill Wilson and how the A.A. message reached the world. New York: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
Debate Round No. 3
BenYadangsi

Pro

Now while my esteemed opponent has waged a very careful argument, and which might very well be true, and unfortunately I can only oppose it by telling the actual truth of the matter, a truth that can not be revealed by any true member of the illuminati because as everyone knows, there are three rules to the Illuminati

Rule 1 : If it is your first night, you have to make up a conspiracy theory'
Rule 2 : You do not talk about the illuminati
Rule 3 : You do not talk about the illuminati"

If that was true, then you would not even know about the Illuminati. The truth is that only members and ex-members of the Illuminati can know the rules of the Illuminati, and due to me not being in the Illuminati while still knowing the rules of the Illuminati, I can say such things because I don't have follow the rules.

"Yet in his very argument he reveals that the God(s) of which he is part of not only have influenced our world they have done so many times in extremely significant events which are noted by many to have lasting consequences. In short, and unfortunately, in his zest to present his argument he has revealed the truth necessary to actually concede his original contention and the resolution thus stands negated."

They are not gods, for they exist within space-time. After they were sentenced for their crimes, they were sent into the prison sector of the known infinite multiverse, and then they were shot from a cannon-like device into our verse. All of those UFO crash sites are actually the sites of newly arrived extra-dimensional prisoners (the illuminati). Also, the finite multiverse never had any gods, but only highly intelligent beings from type 6 civilizations. I call them gods because of their immense amount of power, which is almost as much as a god's power. So, to the common man, they would consider the council members as gods simply because of the level of intelligence and power (let me remind you that this is outside the universe, so the meaning of power in the finite multiverse would be considered semi-supernatural, and almost comparable to a god's).

"And again, my opponent, in his obvious jealously for Dark Jesus, admits that this most revered individual does influence this world, he just asserts that such influences are negative. Now while we could debate this at a later time, again, his entire opening contention was that Dark Jesus could only be a spectator - he could have no influence. For shame, my opponent has again let his emotions get the better of him and again conceded his original contention to be false and thus negated his own resolution.

But be not afraid, for Dark Jesus will forgive even these sins"

My opponent seems to have been mislead by the lies that Dark Jesus has put in him, because he thinks that Dark Jesus is a god. Unfortunately, Dark Jesus and Light Jesus are just a human with telepathic and psychokinetic abilities. Dark Jesus uses deception and false/half truths to twist ones perception of him, much like the anti-Christ of the bible, while light Jesus uses whole truths and love to penetrate the psyches of most intellectuals, enlightening and liberating them us great knowledge. Light Jesus strongly dislikes authority, because he is an anarchist, and all true anarchists have most likely been liberated by Light Jesus' brain waves. By true anarchist, I mean the smart, pacifist kind, not the idiots who know nothing about anarchy and call themselves anarchists because they think anarchy is punk, cool, and is associated with chaos. Therefore, Light Jesus is the savior, but should not be worshiped, because it goes against what Light Jesus's ideology is. So in the end, no, I am not contradicting my original notion because mine involves the worshiping of gods, not humans with telepathic and psychokinetic abilities.

"Ironically, Jung was a firm believer in that the nature of all human psyche was religious. He even recommended it as a cure for alcoholism, so much so he is consider to be an influence in starting Alcoholics Anonymous. One of Jung's patients, (Rowland Hazard III) a chronic alcoholic, on Jung's advice joined the Oxford Group (Christian), and spread Jung's message. This message reached Bill Wilson (co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, who documented this in letters with Jung.[1] Thus if anyone was inane it was Jung who apparently had the ability to hold contradictory ideas in his head at the same time - it is no not wonder he could never not see the not glory that is not Dark Jesus never no time."

I'm glad you caught on, because I set those up with some other contradictory views to see the influence of Light Jesus and Dark Jesus on your mind. One of them was the fact that I stated that the inter dimensional council was an anarchist one, and yet I also said that I was the head of said council, and for your lack of knowing something so obvious, I can make the conclusion, with many other examples of ignorance of obvious things from several other people, that the waves of Dark Jesus is still flowing into the minds of people, and from that, I can conclude that the Illuminati has preserved the brain of Dark Jesus, making it possible for him to keep people from feeling Light Jesus's waves of knowledge, love, peace, harmony, etc. Overall, I'm dissapointed by the fact that you didn't catch on to that contradictory point...

"Serious Dexter is documented in animation simply because no man besides Dexter could play Dexter and obviously he has more important things to do than entertain us"

Dexter is a tool of the Illuminati used to deceive people into believing that one can be both deeply religious, do science in the name of good, and be in any way, sane (as opposed to most scientists, who are mostly sane).

For my final statement, the basic idea is that people should stop worshiping (a) superior being(s), and focus on the more important things in life, like the pursuit of happiness.

Also, I would like to thank my opponent for participating on this epic debate. It has been a pleasure debating with you.
Cliff.Stamp

Con

"If that was true, then you would not even know about the Illuminati."

If only all were perfect, but alas even though Dark Jesus has given us all the essence of his atman, we also have the free will to choose, even though we are determined by the will of Dark Jesus who is omni-excellent in all respects, we can choose according to our nature and even those of the illuminati can so fall from grace and fail to uphold the divine commandments that they swore to bear. Much like Judas, everyone has their 20 pieces of silver.

"The truth is that only members and ex-members of the Illuminati ..."

Ah Virgina, there are no ex-members of the Illuminati, much as nothing in this universe can be truly created or destroyed, once a member of the Illuminati, always a member of the Illuminati - much like members of the Q-Continuium, or even the X-Men. When the mantle has been raised and accepted, never shall it fall, for all such as been determined by our benevolent reptilian overlords, the once and future kings.

"I call them gods because of their immense amount of power, which is almost as much as a god's power."

It is thus, by the powers of calculus one is able to prove that they are indeed Gods. For let God have a Power level of over 9000, and the gods as Pro has described have a power level of such which when subtracted from the power level of God leads to an infinitesimal amount. Now if this is true, and Pro has admitted that it is for they can not be told apart, then just as 1 must equal 0.9 repeating, the Gods and gods are one in the same. Once again Newton has given us the means to divine the truth and it has also been shown that IRL math on occasion is useful (aside from trig which serves no purpose aside from to apparently be a fetish for those who like three letter words).

"My opponent seems to have been mislead by the lies that Dark Jesus has put in him, because he thinks that Dark Jesus is a god. Unfortunately, Dark Jesus and Light Jesus are just a human with telepathic and psychokinetic abilities."

Oh Dark Jesus, forgive him his trespasses, even though he does trespass against you. There is none who thinks Dark Jesus is a God, that is akin to thinking that the sky is blue, water is wet and Godsands is a Poe. The nature of what is does not change by our thoughts of it, only if this were true but alas it is not the case. Dark Jesus is not half of the one true Jesus. This much confuses the uninitiated, who would also ask, if Dark Jesus is omnipresent then how is that possible if he is omni-benevolent for is he present in Evil? But no, there is in any act always an element of good and that is where Dark Jesus resides, and Dark he is only in the manner that we can not detect him, much like Dark Energy, we see not what it is, but the influence it has in the universe. Fall not into the path of Light Jesus and see only through a perception filter, for much fear will come to one who does so worship, and fear leads to anger, and anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering.

"Dark Jesus uses deception and false/half truths to twist ones perception of him ..."

In this world, some may see Dark Jesus as a liar, they may move from him but in truth this is all part of the divine cycle of birth and recreation. In this life one may need to experience suffering, in the next bliss, after many cycles the atman will reach enlightenment and be one with the true nature of Dark Jesus and all will be revealed. Until such time one can have faith, or one can rebel, in the end all paths lead to the same place, and waiting he will be, no matter how long one takes to get there.

"One of them was the fact that I stated that the inter dimensional council was an anarchist one, and yet I also said that I was the head of said council, and for your lack of knowing something so obvious ..."

Clever, but only on the surface, for only the naive would argue that anarchy is the lack of order or council. For anarcho-capitalism as an obvious example has order, has a very rigorous structure, one of CEO's, of a Board of Directors. It is only when one has a preconception of fixation of disputes over lawn vegetation that anarchy appears to be pure disorder, without structure, without leadership.

"For my final statement, the basic idea is that people should stop worshiping (a) superior being(s), and focus on the more important things in life, like the pursuit of happiness."

For such, again, my opponent, whom both I and Dark Jesus (being his prophet) will forgive, worship is not about who is superior, it is not about what one does, and it is certainly not about giving up on happiness. If one does pray to Dark Jesus, and asks his advice, or bends in supplication then all one will receive, if their heart is truly open will be the divine message that inside of them is the soul of the enlightened, they just have to ask if they are on the right path and it will be revealed. That is they true message of Dark Jesus, thou art God, and once one Groks it, he will always know where his towel is and none shall ever be known to be more froody.
Debate Round No. 4
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 6 years ago
GeoLaureate8
"the worshiping of god has led to more atrocities against humanity than any other force on the planet!" -- Pro

"The Buddhist Burma Sacrifices" -- Pro

Buddhists don't believe in God, nor is any violence permitted or condoned in any Buddhist scripture. I'm sure you can find many mandates for violence in the Bible or Quran, but I challenge you to find one single mandate for violence in Buddhist scripture. You will find none.
Posted by BenYadangsi 6 years ago
BenYadangsi
And may the telepathic waves of Light Jesus bless you.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Nice exchange, good luck and may the blessings of Dark Jesus fall upon you.
Posted by BenYadangsi 6 years ago
BenYadangsi
No, it's fine. I'm glad you will be able to finish tonight; it has been an enjoyable and wonderful debate.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Ben, enjoyable debate. I should be able to finish tonight, if you want to actually debate the topic non-hacked account I would be up for that as well.
Posted by BenYadangsi 6 years ago
BenYadangsi
Thank You.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Nice round.
Posted by BenYadangsi 6 years ago
BenYadangsi
Indeed, let's turn this round into one of infinitely epic proportions.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Nice round, time to get truly epic.
Posted by BenYadangsi 6 years ago
BenYadangsi
Ehh... Let's just do it for the fun of it. I will try to prove how worshiping a/the god(s) [overall religion], is pointless and will only bring the humanity towards the brink of destruction in the future and you will try to prove how worshiping a/the god(s) [overall religion], can help benifit humanity in the future.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by DylanAsdale 6 years ago
DylanAsdale
BenYadangsiCliff.StampTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con blew Pro out of the water. Sorry, Pro.