The Instigator
NeonLEONe
Pro (for)
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The Contender
darkcity
Con (against)
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The music label, YMCMB (Young Money Cash Money Billionaires) is a fascist organization.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/1/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,028 times Debate No: 26809
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
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NeonLEONe

Pro

Hello, members of DDO!

This debate will revolve around the idea that I, pro, have put forward stating that the music label, Young Money Cash Money Billionaires (YMCMB) are fascists and exhibit Fascist behavior.

There will be four rounds of this debate.
Round 1: Acceptance.
Round 2: Opening arguments from Pro and rebuttal from Con
Round 3: Rebuttal from Pro and Con
Round 4: Rebuttal from Pro and Con and closing statements.

Rules for this debate:
1. Profanities will not be tolerated.
2. Information must be sourced.
3. Semantics will not be entertained.

To avoid arguing semantics, as stated in Rule #3, I, pro, will define Fascism for the audience and the contender.

Definition of FASCISM: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition [1]

14 Characteristics of Fascism:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. [2]

*Note:
1. Because fascism is a very big and complex topic, the characteristics above are just a guideline. Neither pro nor con will be penalized for not arguing using all the mentioned characteristics.
2. Because we are discussing a music label instead of a government, for the sake of debate, the two terms will become synonymous of each other.

With all that being said, I wish con the best of luck in this debate and look forward to a fruitful and enjoyable debate! :)

Sources:
[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2] http://rense.com...
darkcity

Con

I accept your challenge. I will be arguing that just because an organization has some characteristics of fascism doesn't make it fascist. I look forward to an interesting debate.
Debate Round No. 1
NeonLEONe

Pro

Thank you for accepting the challenge. I wish you luck in the upcoming debate!

Now to begin! Con has stated that even though an organization exhibits fascist behavior, they don't necessarily have to be fascist. This view point, however, is flawed. If a group possess the characteristics of any organization then I would say that it is appropriate to dub that group with the label of said organization, would one not agree? I do not see the reasoning behind con's logic. With that being said, I will begin by stating why I believe that YMCMB is fascist.

In #1 of the "14 Characteristics of Fascism", it is written that 'fascist regimes tend to make use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, [and] songs..." With this characteristics in mind, one can assume that YMCMB possess this fascist characteristic due to their excess patriotic nature encompasses their addiction with shouting 'YOUNG MONEY OVER EVERYTHING!" In all of their songs. An example of this is in the song "Throwed Off" By Lil Wayne featuring Gudda Gudda. In Gudda Gudda's opening verse, around the end, he raps: You know the team/It"s Young Money over everybody/In the rap game/So it"s f*ck everybody."[1] Then in Lil Wayne's song 'I'm Me' he raps: "It's cash money over everything/It's in my blood I feel it runnin' in every vein.../I'm a muthaf**kin' cash money billionaire..." [2] And then in another song titled Young Money Salute, Nicki Minaj sings on the chorus: "Better strap up your boots/before they start to shoot/ just do it for the troops/it's young money salute/it's young money salute/ it's young money salute (salute 2x)" [3]

By listening to the songs mentioned above or any other song on the YMCMB roster, one will notice that there is a fixation with saying Young Money over and over again. This is a form of excessive nationalism which can be used to charactarize YMCMB as fascists.

Above, I have covered the patriotic aspect of YMCMB and how it correlates to fascism. Now I will be using #3 from my 14 Characteristics of Fascism which states "the people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe". This 'patriotic frenzy' in terms of YMCMB can be attributed to the labels excessive uses of "diss songs"-songs which are meant to slander those who oppose YMCMB. On the track 'It's Good' By Lil Wayne, Jadakiss, and Drake, Lil Waynes raps ""Talkin "bout baby money?/ I got your baby money/ Kidnap your b*tch, get that "how much you love your lady" money" as a diss towards Jay Z and his wife, Beyonce [4]. Then in another instance with the rapper Pusha T, Lil Wayne Tweeted to his 6 million Twitter fans "F*ck pusha T and everybody that love 'em" [5]. And then Lil Wayne went on a rampage against the basketball star, Lebron James and Dwayne Wade in which he was quote saying to rolling stone: ""Them n***** never speak to a n****, they don"t chuck me the deuce or nothing. N**** spent all that money on them f*cking tickets " Come holla at me. We sit right by them little b**ch-a** n*****. At least come ask me why I"m not rooting for you.[6]" As seen above, a member of the YMCMB roster always criticizes everything he doesn't' agree with and tries to get everyone to side with him against his distastes. They try to cause conflict. These are all characteristics of a fascist organization.

And finally, my last reason for why I believe that YMCMB is a fascist organization; they are completely run by Lil Wayne. Many times, Lil Wayne is cited as the head of the organization and whatever he says, the members of YMCMB have to do what he wants, just like a fascist dictator.

To summarize why I believe that YMCMB is a fascist organization:

1. They are run by one person who calls all the shots -Lil Wayne
2. They are excessively patriotic.
3. They target everything that does not coincide with their own beliefs.

I believe that these are the main characteristics of any fascist organization and I look forward to Con's rebuttal regarding the topic at hand. Good luck, Con! :)

Sources:

[1] http://rapgenius.com...
[2] http://www.lyrics.com...
[3] http://www.directlyrics.com...
[4] http://www.hiphopdx.com...
[5] http://www.nowpublic.com...
[6] http://dimemag.com...
darkcity

Con

"... Con has stated that even though an organization exhibits fascist behavior, they don't necessarily have to be fascist. This view point, however, is flawed. If a group possess the characteristics of any organization then I would say that it is appropriate to dub that group with the label of said organization, would one not agree? I do not see the reasoning behind con's logic. ..." (pro)

The key word was "some". If you are to label an organization correctly, the organization should match the majority of that label's characteristics, or at least key characteristics. Especially when it is a label as serious as fascist. For example,

"1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays."
If you just went on this one characteristic then you could label St Patrick's Day as "fascist".

"2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc."
David Cameron of the Conservative party (center-right) has criticized Human Rights, but most people would not call him fascist. http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

"3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc."
Obama said U.S. and India are united against terrorism. Would you call Obama a fascist?
http://www.rferl.org...

[Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic]"...With this characteristics in mind, one can assume that YMCMB possess this fascist characteristic due to their excess patriotic nature encompasses their addiction with shouting 'YOUNG MONEY OVER EVERYTHING!" (pro)

There are several problems with this argument. Firstly we are discussing a record label (although some disambiguation would be useful) not a country. Patriotism = "a devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty." [A]. Which perhaps becomes "a devoted love, support, and defense of one's record label; company loyalty.". I agree that YMCMB are "company patriots". However, patriotism is far from fascism. In fact most hip-hop artists use self reference and self promotion in the lyrics. This down to hip-hop artists being fascist in general? I argue not. If you look at the history of it originates from poor black communities. The self promotion comes from knowing what its like to poor and fighting to be become rich [B]. Some hip-hop artists may not come from this background, but that is the history which has inform the culture's present. Further, many perhaps most corporations use advertising to promote themselves in a positive light and which in effect say "we are the best, our company over all others", are these companies fascist too?
Secondly, "young money" is a concept as well as a reference to the organization. Young money means money you have made yourself rather than "old money" inherited from your parents.

[A] http://dictionary.reference.com...
[B] http://www.stanford.edu...

"By listening to the songs mentioned above or any other song on the YMCMB roster, one will notice that there is a fixation with saying Young Money over and over again. This is a form of excessive nationalism which can be used to characterize YMCMB as fascists." (pro)

How can it be nationalism when the claims are based on belonging to a company rather than a nation or nationality? Rather I would argue it is self promotion and lack of inspiration for lyrics. Maybe it could be tribalism, but again tribalism isn't equal to fascism.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Now I will be using #3 from my 14 Characteristics of Fascism which states "the people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe". This 'patriotic frenzy' in terms of YMCMB can be attributed to the labels excessive uses of "diss songs"-songs which are meant to slander those who oppose YMCMB. On the track 'It's Good' By Lil Wayne, Jadakiss, and Drake, Lil Waynes raps ""Talkin "bout baby money?/ I got your baby money/ Kidnap your b*tch, get that "how much you love your lady" money" as a diss towards Jay Z and his wife, Beyonce [4]. Then in another instance with the rapper Pusha T, Lil Wayne Tweeted to his 6 million Twitter fans "F*ck pusha T and everybody that love 'em" [5]. And then Lil Wayne went on a rampage against the basketball star, Lebron James and Dwayne Wade in which he was quote saying to rolling stone: ""Them n***** never speak to a n****, they don"t chuck me the deuce or nothing. N**** spent all that money on them f*cking tickets " Come holla at me. We sit right by them little b**ch-a** n*****. At least come ask me why I"m not rooting for you.[6]" As seen above, a member of the YMCMB roster always criticizes everything he doesn't' agree with and tries to get everyone to side with him against his distastes. They try to cause conflict. These are all characteristics of a fascist organization." (pro)
Dis tracks along with self promotion are common part of hiphop culture. Dis track are good for attracting attention and getting free publicity. Characterist #3 states "Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause". What is the cause YMCMB are trying to unify people over? They aren't trying to get people to join their organisation, rather they are trying to sell records.

"And finally, my last reason for why I believe that YMCMB is a fascist organization; they are completely run by Lil Wayne. Many times, Lil Wayne is cited as the head of the organization and whatever he says, the members of YMCMB have to do what he wants, just like a fascist dictator." (pro)
That is no different to many company managers. Also, if people don't like what he says they can leave and join another company or start their own.

"To summarize why I believe that YMCMB is a fascist organization:
1. They are run by one person who calls all the shots -Lil Wayne
2. They are excessively patriotic.
3. They target everything that does not coincide with their own beliefs."(pro)
Here's where I would like a little clarification. What is the entity "YMCMB" you refer to? Is it Young Money Entertainment an imprint (trading name) of Cash Money Records, both are distributed by Universal Music Group. Or is it the Young Money Group?
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://answers.yahoo.com...
Debate Round No. 2
NeonLEONe

Pro

NeonLEONe forfeited this round.
darkcity

Con

As far as I know NeonLEONe can't make any more rounds, so I suggest people vote on the arguments made thus far.
Debate Round No. 3
NeonLEONe

Pro

NeonLEONe forfeited this round.
darkcity

Con

NeonLEONe couldn't make any more rounds, so I'm suggesting people vote on the arguments made in the earlier rounds.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by darkcity 4 years ago
darkcity
@ockcatdaddy can you source that?
Posted by ockcatdaddy 4 years ago
ockcatdaddy
pretty sure that it stands for Young Money Cash Money Bitches
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