The Instigator
Thorwald
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Kiroen
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

The 'new' bibles recently created, belong to Satan.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Kiroen
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/24/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 581 times Debate No: 36986
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

Thorwald

Pro

The KJV Bible was created through the decree of a KING (King James). It has been adjusted over a period of time, and has become a 'standard' for believers. Any unauthorized changes to the scriptures, based on human vanity, reaps 'spiritual death'. We see that Aaron's two sons were killed by God, when they 'added' incense to an offering. The reason for their deaths, was because GOD had not told them to do this. (Book of Leviticus)

In the Old Testament, we find that The Children of Israel, Kings, Priests, and Prophets, were anointed. Who 'anointed' the authors of the 'new bibles'? The Word of God came by way of anointed kings/priests/prophets from within the anointed Israelites. The scriptures tell us, that those who received The Word of God from God, were called 'gods'.

God IS NOT the master of CONFUSION. Today, we have to deal not only with the problem of understanding the KJV Bible, but now also with the differences between the KJV Bible and all of the other 'bibles'. Common sense should tell everyone, that there can only be ONE Word of God.

We all know, that there are 'contradictions' found in the KJV Bible. These are due to 'errors' based on misunderstandings on the part of the anointed 'authors'. It does not matter, therefore, how many different 'translations' are created, if these errors are not first corrected. There is only ONE way to correct the errors. The person who corrects the errors, must be anointed by God. This person must be an Israelite. This person must ASK GOD for the 'corrections' that need to be made. There is no other way. Use of VANITY will lead a person to their own 'spiritual death'. You run the risk of 'putting words into The Mouth Of God'. By doing so, you become a FALSE PROPHET, and will lead many to their spiritual death. Talebearers are just as vulnerable, and are judged the same.

God uses Numbers 12:6, in order to prove that a person is 'anointed'. This is a 'personal' proof to the anointed person, that he/she is receiving the truth from God. Satan CANNOT 'reproduce' Numbers 12:6. If he could, then Numbers 12:6, is USELESS.
Kiroen

Con

I accept your debate and I will dismount any fallacies or bad constructed arguments that try to prove that modern Bible version are 'inspired' or 'anointed' by 'Satan'.



Burden of proof

I hope you came prepared, because your proposition is as hard as hell to prove. You, as both instigator and Pro have to prove that:
a)Modern Bible versions are inspired (?) by Satan.
b)By extension, that Satan exists.
c)By extension, that God is either not powerful enough to not to let Satan to spread his ideas or he simply doesn't care.



Is God arbitrary?

Your first paragraph (to start with) doesn't help you a lot at this, since as you yourself state, God is quite a whimsical character: "Any unauthorized changes to the scriptures, based on human vanity, reaps 'spiritual death'. We see that Aaron's two sons were killed by God, when they 'added' incense to an offering. The reason for their deaths, was because GOD had not told them to do this. (Book of Leviticus)". However, you claim that modern Bible versions, such as KJV, are unauthorized changes of God's word. If this is so, why didn't he bother to punish anyone? Remember: God killed two little kids for adding incense to an offering. However King James lived many years after he aproved his version, and the KJV Bible's author did also live many years until he was sent to prison. Did God (a supposedly eternal character, owner of all the truth, both physical and moral) change his ethics? Why did he take so different decisions in such an arbitrary way?



Satan's fallacy

"God uses Numbers 12:6, in order to prove that a person is 'anointed'. This is a 'personal' proof to the anointed person, that he/she is receiving the truth from God. Satan CANNOT 'reproduce' Numbers 12:6. If he could, then Numbers 12:6, is USELESS."

This is an argumentum ad consequentiam, which is considered a fallacy. According to Wikipedia: "[it's] an argument that concludes a hypothesis (typically a belief) to be either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences."

We can easily spot the same structure in your text: 'Satan can't anoint, because If he could, Numbers 12:6 wouldn't make sense'. For the sake of curiosity, let's check Numbers 12:6 too.



Anointing's fallacy

Numbers 12:6 says: "he said, “Listen to my words: “When there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions, I speak to them in dreams."


Pro considers Bible's original authors had in possesion of an ultimate truth because, according to Bible, God anointed them - this is, God himself revealed it. This is a fallacy of converse, which follows the next structure: If P happens, then Q is true. I think Q is true, therefore, P is too. Let's check it again:

If God anoints Bible's authors, what the Bible says is true. Pro thinks what the Bible says is true, therefore, its authors were antoined by God.

This is an important mistake in Pro's position, as he thinks the old, original versions of the Bible because its authors were anointed by God. But how does he know this? Because Bible says so. While this is not a truly important thing in this debate's topic (If recent Bible's versions were inspired by Satan or not), it staggers the beliefs system in which Pro is based to defend his position, so I think it's something worth being mentioned.
Debate Round No. 1
Thorwald

Pro

In the spring of 2003, I personally experienced Numbers 12:6. I also experienced much more. The following took place;

1) I went to God in very serious prayer. Later in the day, I was spoken to in God's own voice. I was given the answer to my prayer.

2) About a month later, I was mentally debating the Mormon belief, that we were in heaven before coming to earth and being born. I received a vision, in which I 're-lived' my own carnal birth.

3) A further two months later, I had a vision followed by a dream in riddles.

It took nine years of research on the internet, talking to various ministers of all 'one-god' faiths, attending many different Christian churches, discussions on Christian forums, prayer, and so on, before I understood what God was teaching me.

When I was reading scriptures, God would 'insert' missing scriptures, and after I read them, they would 'disappear' again. God showed me that I am an Israelite from the lost tribes of Israel (my father was from Norway, and my mother was from Scotland), and the throne of England, is an Israelite throne.

God had me compare the KJV Bible to the NIV study bible, and showed me several errors in the NIV. He also showed me the contradictions found in the KJV Bible. The Holy Ghost only accepts the KJV Bible. This is the only Bible authorized by God.

When I went for coffee, I would sit in my truck at the coffee shop. As I sat there, God would 'give me answers' to questions I never even asked. They had to do with the lost Word of God.

God asked me to do what I am now doing. All of my posted debates are part of it. In the dream, I volunteered to do this work. God asked, "Do you think you can handle it?" I answered "Yes."

I have been banned from many forums, asked to leave one church, called a 'heretic', called a false prophet, and most of my emails to Christian ministers go unanswered.

The scriptures tell us, that if they threw the master out, they will surely throw you out. Which minister do you know of, that has been thrown out of his church when asked by God to teach something 'different'? Which minister do you know of, that has experienced John 14:21-23? I have heard of NONE.

I wrote a small book called 'Black Lights & Burnt Candles', published by WestBow Press, in February, 2013, in which I try to explain part of the many things that God has taught me. I basically 'lived for God' during the past 10 years, and I continue to do so. I am a self-employed accountant, and can therefore arrange my accounting work to fit my work for God.
Kiroen

Con

In this round, Pro has done absolutely nothing to prove his initial statement: that 'the most recent bibles are created by Satan'. Instead, he has narrated a very questionable story about himself, which he pretends to use to (illogically) justify a 'fallacy ad hominen', which is nothing else but to say that a certain statement is true because it's believed by someone with a certain (private) knowledge or authority, without actually proving the statement itself.

This childish discussion doesn't really deserve anyone's time, but in the case that someone has still doubts about the incongruity of Pro's story, I'll point some more contradictions:

Almighty and all-knowning being that leaves contradictions about his own existence in purpose

"God had me compare the KJV Bible to the NIV study bible, and showed me several errors in the NIV. He also showed me the contradictions found in the KJV Bible. The Holy Ghost only accepts the KJV Bible. This is the only Bible authorized by God."

Pro believes that a being omniscient and infinitely powerful only accepts a book full of contradictions as his only word of infinite truth for us, poor, stupid and mortal weak beings. Does he even pretend to laugh at us?

Almighty being that doesn't give any help to the bringers of his word

"God asked me to do what I am now doing. All of my posted debates are part of it. In the dream, I volunteered to do this work. God asked, "Do you think you can handle it?" I answered "Yes."


I have been banned from many forums, asked to leave one church, called a 'heretic', called a false prophet, and most of my emails to Christian ministers go unanswered."

If we accept that the pretended being we call 'God' wants everyone to know that he exists so we can get eternal salvation in heaven, why doesn't he give any help to Pro to make everyone 'know' he speaks truth? As he himself said, he has been repeteadly kicked out of many religious communities where he tried to do so. If this 'God' really existed, he would be a really mean being, as he lets Pro to feel the reject and impotency of being his missionary - which is a contradiction with the accepted statement that the christian God is benelovent.

Is this God racist... Or something worse?

Quotes from the first round:


"In the Old Testament, we find that The Children of Israel, Kings, Priests, and Prophets, were anointed. Who 'anointed' the authors of the 'new bibles'? The Word of God came by way of anointed kings/priests/prophets from within the anointed Israelites. [...] There is only ONE way to correct the errors. The person who corrects the errors, must be anointed by God. This person must be an Israelite"

Just to begin with, we find that declares himself creator of everything and the mankind in its whole, does only reveal himself to a very specific ethnicity. This doesn't make too much more sense than the hypothesis that the Hebrew God is only a justification for this ancient tribe's racism and wish for subjugating other peoples. As we find in Deuteronomy, the word of God, slavery is allowed:


Deuteronomy 20:10-14 "10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies."

...unless the people to be enslaved are israelites themselves:

Deuteronomy 24:7 "If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you."

[For further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org...;]

This evidence would make us believe that God is purely racist. ...But Pro states that "[...] and the throne of England, is an Israelite throne.

God had me compare the KJV Bible to the NIV study bible, and showed me several errors in the NIV. He also showed me the contradictions found in the KJV Bible. The Holy Ghost only accepts the KJV Bible. This is the only Bible authorized by God.".

To which me may question: 'What kind of almighty being supports an ethnicity's supremacy but lets them to be enslaved (by Babilonians, Romans, Nazis among others), exiled, tortured AND EVEN only accepts a version of his very own Word of Truth to be written in a language that doesn't form part of their heritage?

This 'God' is sick. If there's something that belongs to 'Satan' (which I doubt) is this Almighty being story.
Debate Round No. 2
Thorwald

Pro

Thorwald forfeited this round.
Kiroen

Con

Pro had a short and weak argumentary and couldn't but to forfeit his or her position. He couldn't prove his or her main statement and thus lost the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Subutai 3 years ago
Subutai
ThorwaldKiroenTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro never had any substantial arguments. Con's, on the other hand, were deleted. That, coupled with pro's forfeit, make this a con victory.