The Instigator
LayTheologian
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DanielDate
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The number of adherents or opponents of a contentious belief is not evidence of its truth.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/11/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 253 times Debate No: 38774
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
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LayTheologian

Pro

It can sometimes be beneficial to assume a belief to be true simply on the basis that many others believe it. For instance, if several other people tell one that he will die if he eats a mushroom, he would be very foolish to eat the mushroom without compelling reason. For another example, there is no need for someone who is not interested in philosophy to examine the arguments for and refutations of solipsism before following the consensus that other minds do, in fact, exist and should therefore be respected.

However, in intellectual discussion, he who discusses the popularity or growth of his viewpoint in an attempt to provide evidence of this viewpoint is guilty of grave error. I believe that this stance is obvious and scarcely worthy of debate. However, many on this site have committed the fallacy I discuss, particularly in the context of the theism-atheism debates.

Should anyone care to dispute my argument, I propose they respond with one non-argumentative round to clarify any terms or rules and to indicate the grounds on which they oppose my claim. This response will be followed by three rounds of debate.
DanielDate

Con

I will demonstrate that only Christianity is true among all religions, by nature of its consistency with history and preservation of the human race, specifically Catholicism; that, by their own materials; Protestant Sects are utterly invalid and built on lies, as well as Islam. I can also demonstrate that Hinduism, Bhuddism, etc. leads to the inevitable destruction of it's general adherent populace (on earth, and afterlife) - and the same applies for whatever other religion you can throw at me.

I will use the Bible, Ante-Nicene Writings, knowledge of the false-religions traditions and common-sense.
Debate Round No. 1
LayTheologian

Pro

I believe it is possible that Con has inadvertently joined the wrong debate. However, I (being a Christian) would love to see how he makes his argument.

So, Mr. Negation. You have the floor. Amaze me.
DanielDate

Con

Starting with the "Religions of Peace":

Hinduism, Bhuddism, teach neither proseltyzing nor war.

This creates a problem here on earth, as Nature demands Speciation; we'll define Speciation as an ebb and flow between invading armies, killing the weak and impregnating their women, resulting in genetically diverse off-spring.

Nature punishes those who refuse to speciate (inbreeders) by making their off-spring retarded and butt-ugly.

This is what we see today in Hindu and Bhuddist areas, toothless-nasty-stupid people: 500 generations of incest that invaders would rather rape of their livestock. The "Religions of Peace" have utterly ruined these people.

So that is Hinduism and Bhuddism debunked.
________________________________________-


Among the Speciating Religions we have Christianity and Islam; they either invade you or send in the missionaries to diversify your gene-pool.

Islam is easily refuted because they accept the Old Testament; which completely contradicts their beliefs.

Example:

The "koran" in ... "Maryam 19:35" >
"It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son."

Is in conflict with and opposed to these writings of God's covenant with Abraham:
(Set aside of course ... that there is no "allah")

> Proverbs 30 -- Identification of the eternal God the Son.
> Isaias 66 -- Prophesy of the Incarnation of Christ, True God and True Man.
> Ecclesiasticus 24 -- Prophesy of the Incarnation of Christ (True God and True Man), via the Virgin Birth.
> Psalm 2 -- Prophesy of the Incarnation of Christ, True God and True Man.
> Isaias 9 -- Prophesy of the Incarnation of Christ, True God and True Man.

Catholic Faith (pre-fulfillment) writing of Proverbs 30:4 >
"Who hath ascended up into Heaven, and descended? Who hath held the wind in His hands? Who hath bound up the waters together as in a garment? Who hath raised up all the borders of the earth? What is His name, and what is the name of His Son, if thou knowest?"


And there is about 100 more of these if anyone wants to try to defend Islam.


So that leaves only Catholicism and the Heretic Off-shoots (Protestants)
_________________________________________________________

Only Catholicism upholds The Bible's teaching on Mary:

Every Israelite that didn't follow behind the Ark of the Covenant to battle would die. In our times, we must follow the Ark of the New Covenant:
The Ark of the Old Covenant
2 Samuel 6:9 – “David feared the Lord that day and said, How can the ark of the Lord come to me?"

The Virgin Mary
Luke 1:43 –"[Elizabeth said]: And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
__________________________

David Leapt Before the Ark
2 Samuel 6:16 – “As the ark of the Lord was entering the City of David, Saul L9;s daughter Michal looked down through the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord...”

The Infant Leapt in the presence of Mary
Luke 1:41-44 – "And it came to pass, that,when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost..For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my wombleaped for joy."
__________________________

The Ark stayed for three months
2 Samuel 6:11 – “The ark of the Lord remained in the house of Obededom the Gittite for three months, and the Lord blessedObededom and his whole house.”

Mary (the Ark) stayed for three months
Luke 1:56-57 – “Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home. Now Elizabeth's full time of being delivered was come, and she brought forth a son. “

___________________________________
David set out to fetch the Ark from Judah
2 Samuel 6:2 – “Then David and all the people who were with him set out for
Baala of Judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which bears the name of the Lord of hosts enthroned above the cherubim.”

This occurred when Mary (the Ark) went to Judah
Luke 1:39-40 – “During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah, where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.”

---------------------------------

The Ark of the Old Covenant
Contained the written word of God (Deut.10:5)

The Virgin Mary
Contained the Word of God made flesh, Jesus (Jn. 1:1)
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The Ark of the Old Covenant
Was “overshadowed” by the power and presence of God (Exodus 40:34-35)

The Virgin Mary
Was “overshadowed” by the power and presence of the Most High (Luke 1:35)
-----------------------------------
The Ark contained the manna from the desert
Hebrews 9:4- “... the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein
was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant.”

Mary contained the manna from Heaven, Jesus
John 6:48-51- “I am that bread of life.Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven... and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
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In Hebrews 9:4, we also see that the rod of Aaron was placed within the Ark of the Old Covenant. In Numbers 17, we read that this rod budded to prove the true high-priest. The rod of Aaron thus signified the true high-priest. In the New Testament, Jesus is described as the true high-priest.

Hebrews 3:1- “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,
consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus.”

Also see Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 9:11, and other passages for more proof that Jesus is the true high-priest. The inescapable conclusion is that Aaron’s rod being placed within the Ark prefigured Jesus Christ, the true high-priest, being contained within Mary (the Ark of the New Covenant).
-----------------------------------

The Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) also indicates that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant:

Revelation 11:19,12-1- “And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. [12:1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.”

______________________

The Ark of the Old Covenant had a gold crown
Exodus 25:11- “And thou... shalt make upon it a crown of gold round about.”

The Virgin Mary (the New Ark) also has a crown
Apocalypse 12:1- “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.”

--------------------------------------

THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SECOND ADAM

1 Corinthians 15:45- “And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”

AS CHRIST IS THE NEW ADAM, MARY IS THE NEW EVE


Just as “the woman” (Eve) was intimately involved in the events leading up to the original sin, there is a distinct woman who was intimately involved in the events leading up to the Redemption. That is Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. She is the new Eve.

EVE COMMUNICATED WITH, BELIEVED AND OBEYED A FALLEN ANGEL (THE SERPENT) –

MARY COMMUNICATED WITH, BELIEVED AND OBEYED A GOOD ANGEL (GABRIEL)

Genesis 3:4-6- And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die...she [Eve] took of the fruit thereof, and did eat...”

Luke 1:26-38- “... the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee...to a virgin... and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women... And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus... And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.”

-----------------------------------------------

EVE WAS THE MOTHER OF ALL THE LIVING – MARY, AS MOTHER OF JESUS, IS THE MOTHER OF ALL THE LIVING AND EVEN OF LIFE ITSELF

Genesis 3:20- “And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all the living.”

Eve was called the “mother of all the living” because all who had life descended from her. Mary is also the mother of all the living, but indeed in a greater way. Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, who is Life itself and in whom all life is to be found.

John 1:4- “In him [Jesus] was life; and the life was the light of men.”

Matthew 1:16- “Mary, of whom was born Jesus...”

John 14:6- “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Jesus is the Life. Mary is, therefore, literally the mother of Life itself. The parallel to Eve, the mother of all the living, is clear. The difference is that Mary is the mother of a Life that is infinitely greater than human existence. Those who live and die in her Son have access to eternal life in Him and become new creatures.

2 Corinthians 5:17- “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.”

The fulfillment (Mary as mother of all the living) is again greater than the type (Eve as mother of all the living).





Jesus indentified Mary as the “woman” of Genesis 3:15
John 2:3-5-“And Jesus saith to her: Woman

Genesis 3:15 reveals that it is Mary whom crushes the head of the devil for all Catholics.




Debate Round No. 2
LayTheologian

Pro

This is lovely, but what does it have to do with the resolution?
DanielDate

Con

DanielDate forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
LayTheologian

Pro

I still don't see what any of this has to do with the resolution.
DanielDate

Con

So Catholicism is the largest religion on earth; this is because it is consistent in its doctrines from the Old Testament forward.

What we have today though is an imposter church that is not even remotely Catholic (yet still has the largest body of believers).



NOSTRA AETATE - Vatican II Council
3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God,

So here we see that the Modern Catholic Church esteems false-religions and false-gods.

This has created quite a drift as the majority of believers do not even realize that this has occured! It is literally that end-times apostasy that no one notices.

You ask any Catholic, "Do you esteem false-religions?"

Catholic: No.

So what we have left is God's People that have left the Vatican II Cult yet remained Catholic:

Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

Wikipedia estimates this number between 10,000 and 200,000 http://en.wikipedia.org...

But the vast majority of them have fallen into heresy regarding Baptism of Desire and complicated Jurisdictional issues.

So really the True Catholic Church today has probably less than 1,000 members. Fulfilling that "remnant church" situation prophesied of the end of the world.

So there we see that the true church is identified for having the bulk of membership and the minute of it at the same time!

=)
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by calculatedr1sk 10 months ago
calculatedr1sk
... wow.

DanielDate you are exactly what comes to my mind when I hear the word "Christian". Feel free to take that as a compliment, if you like - though please realize that flattery is not what I'm trying to communicate.
Posted by DanielDate 10 months ago
DanielDate
Whoops missed the reply deadline. Well Catholicism is the true church and had the largest adherents; in my next post I'll demonstrate how it fell into apostasy and true catholicism is now the smallest religion on earth.
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 10 months ago
dawndawndawndawn
(popping corn for the watching of this)
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