The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
32 Points
The Contender
Bricheze
Con (against)
Losing
31 Points

The odds are, most of us have backed the wrong horse!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,596 times Debate No: 6257
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (11)
Votes (10)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

Around four fifths of the world's population self-identify themselves as religious. About a third are Christian, a fifth are Muslims and another fifth follow South Asian beliefs. The rest are either non-believers or followers of minor religions. (1)

So if there is an afterlife, who will be the ones that have backed the right horse and who will be the ones tearing up their ecumenical betting slips?

Could it be that one day the Pope knocks on the gates of paradise and has the following conversation?

Celestial Gatekeeper: Aasalaamu Aleikum.

Pope: Bitte? Hier ist der Papst, lassen Sie mich nach innen.

Celestial Gatekeeper: Sorry, I don't speak German. Do you speak English?

Pope: Yes, yes, now let me in right now, I'm the bloody Pope, you ignorant little git.

Celestial Gatekeeper: The Pope? Ah-ha-ha-ha! Oh dear, oh dear! So you're the head of the Catholic Church are you? Ha-ha-ha! Now let me see, that makes you a…Christian doesn't it? Oh dear, I'm sorry but it's Muslims only in here, pal, you're on your way to Hell! Ha-ha-ha!

Pope: What? No wait! I've obviously got the wrong address. Would you kindly direct me to Christian Heaven, please?

Celestial Gatekeeper: Are you crazy? There is only one Heaven. There's one Heaven and one god and His name is Allah, leader of all the worlds and all praise is due to Him.

Pope: Jesus Christ on a f*ckin' bike, that's torn it! Look mate, I know I'm not a Muslim but surely you can make an exception for someone like me?

Celestial Gatekeeper: No way, infidel, it's eternal damnation for you, I'm afraid.

Pope: Oh come on, look, Muslims hate Jews, right? Well I used to be a Nazi (2) and the Nazi's killed millions of Jews. So come on, what do you say?

Celestial Gatekeeper: No, the Nazis were indirectly responsible for the creation of the State of Israel and, anyway, according to your file, in 2006 you said the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only evil and inhuman things. (2) No, no, no. It's the burning pits of Hell for you, pal. See you!

Pope: F*ckin' rats c*cks! A life of celibacy for nothing! Oh, bollocks! Aaaah!

Similarly, Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will be in serious trouble if it transpires that the Jews are, indeed, God's Chosen People.

The point is, we can't all be right. Here are the latest odds on the afterlife:

Christian Heaven (bookies' favourite)......…..……3-1 against
Islamic Paradise…..………………….........…...…..…5-1
No afterlife………..………………………..................25-4
Hindu reincarnation……………………….....….........7-1
Buddhist Nirvana…………………….………..............50-3
Taoist reincarnation…………………..…….......…....50-3
Sikh reincarnation……………………..……....….......280-1
Jewish Heaven…………………………..…........….....455-1
Xenu rescues Scientologists in his spaceship...…38,000-1

Even these odds do not include the possibility that more spiritually enlightened extraterrestrial civilisations exist elsewhere in the universe that have discovered the true nature of the afterlife or that more scientifically advanced aliens have proven that intelligent beings are no more than a complex collection of atoms and there is no afterlife at all.

In the final analysis, no matter what your religious beliefs are, the odds are they are wrong.

Thank you.

Sources:

(1) http://www.adherents.com...
(2) http://news.bbc.co.uk...
Bricheze

Con

How can we possibly know?

God might just be a very forgiving guy! Maybe if you lived a life with basic morals, then you will be excepted into heaven. Regardless of your religion. But the truth is, we can't know until we die. And most likely if you did what you felt was right through out your life god will except you into heaven or whatever were all applying to get into...
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

I would first of all like to extend my thanks to Bricheze for accepting this debating challenge.

Now, my opponent speculated that God is "very forgiving". Well, assuming she's referring to the deity Christians worship, let's put her theory to the test.

Imagine yourself as a devout Christian drinking in a pub and after five pints or so you are very anxious to relieve yourself. However, there is a long queue for the toilets so you decide to go in the car park instead. Now, as you step outside you see an old man wearing a Darwin fish t-shirt lying on the ground. He has been beaten up badly and is on fire.

Now you have a choice, you can either:

1 - allow him to burn to death, or
2 - save his life by urinating on him to extinguish the flames.

So you ask yourself, what would God do if He were in my situation?

Well, even though the elderly gentleman on the floor supports the theory of evolution, and is therefore a heretic, you remember that in Exodus 34: 5-7 it says that the Lord God is compassionate and gracious and forgives iniquity, transgression and sin, so you think that if God was in your place he would save the aged atheist's life by peeing on him.

But then you remember that in the same passage it says that God will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, and will visit the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations, and you therefore conclude that, in actual fact, if God was in your place, He would not only let the old boy burn, He would also find out where his family lives and burn their house down with them in it.

Hardly a "very forgiving" attitude, I think you'll agree.

Then my opponent continued by saying that: "if you lived a life with basic morals, then you will be excepted into heaven. Regardless of your religion".

God may see fit forgive the minor transgressions of pious Christians and, provided their parents, grandparents and great grandparents all lived wholesome, God-fearing lives, admit them into the Kingdom of Heaven. However, all other Christians are going straight to Hell in a handcart. Therefore, He certainly wouldn't grant entrance to a non-believer, no matter how morally sound they might be and the Bible is quite clear about that: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16.

Therefore, if the Christians that make up a third of the world's population have gambled wisely and their idea of the afterlife transpires to be correct, only the most pious and worthy amongst them will make it to Heaven and the other two thirds of the population that are non-Christian will most certainly have backed the wrong horse!

Thank you.
Bricheze

Con

Wow. You so totally switched my words around! I excepted this debate because it so one-sided you for sure would have one by a land side, and no one else would ever accept it. Anyways here is my response:

"Now, my opponent speculated that God is "very forgiving".

No I said "God might just be a very forgiving guy!" MIGHT BE FORGIVING not stating that he is.

"Well, assuming she's referring to the deity Christians worship, let's put her theory to the test"

Assumptions have no place ina debate. (Interesting that you chose one of the most god-fearing religions that there is...) No you can not put it to the test, because we don't know if Christianity is the so called 'correct' religion. Nor do we know if any of the religious texts are accurate. "But the truth is, we can't know until we die." (what I already said, and you already ignored)

"Therefore, if the Christians that make up a third of the world's population have gambled wisely and their idea of the afterlife transpires to be correct, only the most pious and worthy amongst them will make it to Heaven and the other two thirds of the population that are non-Christian will most certainly have backed the wrong horse!"

How can anyone know which religion is most probable to be the 'correct' one. For all we know it could be Hinduism, we shouldn't base which one is the most 'correct' on the amount of people who follow the religion.

My point of my argument was to say 'we do not know if anything about god is a certainty, but, more then likely he isn't going to throw you into hell for choosing the incorrect religion, he is going to throw you into jail for rape, burglary, or murder. Therefore we could all be backing the correct horse by following good morals. Or god could just be a 'jerk' who made life a guessing game, and if you choose the wrong door out of 500 (I'm sure there are more religions in the world then this) you spend an eternity in hell.' I think the first one is more probable. But either way it proves my side that 'we can't know for certain that we are all probably not backing the right horse. Until we die.'
Debate Round No. 2
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Naureensingh 5 years ago
Naureensingh
Sikhism Does not believe in Reincarnation. Just an FYI.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Liberals, so tolerant and respectful of other peoples beliefs and culture.
Posted by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
"Pro was extremely rude and vulgar, his contempt towards religious faith is quite obvious."

----> Which made the debate so interesting to read :D

"Jesus Christ on a f*cking bike"

----> HAHAH.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Pro was extremely rude and vulgar, his contempt towards religious faith is quite obvious.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Let's do the math, 5/5 = 100% 4/5 believe in a creator or supreme intelligence as having created the universe and everything in it. And 1/5 believe they are the supreme intelligence and and the universe and everything in it just popped out of thin air so to speak and they were lucky enough to have evolved totally by chance into sentient beings . If I were to place a bet it would be the 1/5 that believe "they" are the supreme intelligence that are wrong.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
I thought Xenu was explicitly supposed to be malevolent?
Posted by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
Bricheze, it is *accept.
Crackofdawn, it is *Revelation. There is no S.
Posted by crackofdawn 8 years ago
crackofdawn
Just a side note on the Christian religion in Revelations something is said to like "The dead will rise and be judged" and Revelations talks about non-christians getting judged on character. This means that any person that is judged of "good character" will also get into Christian heaven which raises the chances of getting into the heaven.
Posted by LightC 8 years ago
LightC
No way*
Posted by LightC 8 years ago
LightC
I see now way to vote for either of you. Sorry.
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Vote Placed by tmhustler 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by Bricheze 8 years ago
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