The Instigator
Jmanwdogg
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Tough
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The only things with intrinsic value in this world are pleasure and pain.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/7/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 438 times Debate No: 79493
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Jmanwdogg

Pro

This first round will only be for accepting the debate and for setting ground rules. When I refer to "pleasure" and "pain" I am referering to feelings that elicit a positive response and feelings that elicit a negative response. Kapeesh? Cool.
Tough

Con

I accept this debate
Debate Round No. 1
Jmanwdogg

Pro

When one thinks of things that are good, or desirable, where does one derive this sense of "goodness?" The answer is actually fairly simple; these activities or items illicit a positive response from us and result in our long term happiness or contentment. The opposite is also true, as things that are undesirable, or sad, are universally things that either result in our longterm discontentment, or that illicit some other negative emotion. Things that society view as good, such as financial stability, family, and friends, are only considered good because there is a biological incentive to prioritize these aspects of life, as they increase the likelihood of reproduction. If one did not feel positive emotions regarding these things, and instead felt discontent when around, say, family and friends, solely because they were their family/friends, they would cease to do these things, as they were no longer valuable to them. Unless you can prove that these actions are good without relying on positive and negative emotions, than there is nothing else to these things, value wise.
Tough

Con

Pleasure is only 'good' and good is only linked to 'pleasure' as long as both together is seen as 'positive'. Many ethical codes and moral laws outlaw pleasurable acts, even ones that don't cause anyone direct pain, because they are not seen as good since they are 'negative'. In the same way, some codes of ethics and moral laws encourage a 'painful' act as it is seen as 'good' since it is 'positive'.

The core intrinsic values of anything, whether in physics or in morality is 'positive' and 'negative'. Unlike pleasure and pain, positivity and negativity can only ever be defined as an absence or opposition of the other.
Debate Round No. 2
Jmanwdogg

Pro

A thing is only considered morally wrong by society if it causes pain, or some other negative emotion. For example, theft is considered bad because loss of property would result in negative emotions. If you felt equally good with or without these things, and this was true in all instances of theft, it would no longer be against the law. Something cannot be seen as negative for no reason, that wouldn't make sense.
Tough

Con

Tough forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Jmanwdogg

Pro

Jmanwdogg forfeited this round.
Tough

Con

There are a series of things wrong with both the assertions Pro is making and the methods they are using to reach the conclusions.

In any situation, whether it be rape, murder, child abuse or theft someone or a group of people benefit from it and a person or group get hurt by it.

Hard work is good for society but bad for the individual who is working harder than the rest due to stress and exhaustion.

To help someone, in and of itself, is a concept of causing pain to the self and pleasure to the other. To be selfish is the opposite.

Ultimately there is no pain or pleasure correlation to morality, rather the positivity or negativity of the consequences of each action weighed against the opposite form of consequences.

All thieves and the people their stolen goods help to get wealthy get immense pleasure from it. It's all relative.

Why is helping others 'good' if it hurts you? Should you give all your money to others the moment you get it? Communism is viewed as evil by most societies.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
No. it is You and your life. To "make it happen" you go throug any pleasure and paine. if not there are no "real" values..
Posted by bobsndyer1 1 year ago
bobsndyer1
It's funny how pleasure and pain can be simultaneous or come from the same source. Like taking a crap. It can be a breeze or be really harsh.
Posted by NotThatClever 1 year ago
NotThatClever
If no one exists to value something, does it have value? Does value even exist? If value is +1 and devalue is -1, where does pleasure and pain seat itself? Would pleasure be +1 and pain be -1? In which case pain has no value. Ooh, this is tricky.
Posted by InVinoVeritas 1 year ago
InVinoVeritas
Well, I would argue that there is no intrinsic value...
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