The Instigator
bonnieboy
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
Rousseau
Con (against)
Winning
38 Points

The patriots are the greatest football team in NFL history

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,605 times Debate No: 2075
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (15)

 

bonnieboy

Pro

Hello, my argument today is in favor for the patriots being the greatest football team in history. As everyone knows the patriotshave the best offense, and their entire starting offensive line is going to the pro bowl. Tom Brady is the best quaterbackplaying now, and can throw with procision and accuracy. Not only are they going to win the superbowl again, while being undefeated, but theyare going to surpass many other records. If anyone doesn't agree with this, you should go to hell
Rousseau

Con

Well, looking at the resolution, you can take it to mean two things:
1. The Patriots have the best SINGLE-SEASON team ever.

OR

2. The Patriots are the best football team ever.

I'll refute both, but I want the voters to note that should I win on EITHER of these points, I should win today's debate. This is for the simple reason that the Pro's burden of proof would not be fufilled.

1. "As everyone knows the patriotshave the best offense, and their entire starting offensive line is going to the pro bowl. Tom Brady is the best quaterbackplaying now, and can throw with procision and accuracy."

- The fact is, I can't really argue your statement. However, you aren't trying to prove that the Patriots are the best team this season, as that point would be a lopsided debate. The fact is, they are (most likely) the best team THIS SEASON. However, they are in NO way the best team ever. I won't compare yearly statistics of the teams, because those are misleading. The league is different in the respective era's, and proving that one team was better in their era proves nothing.

http://espn.go.com...
http://espn.go.com...

- For reasons relating more to the amount of room I have to argue, I'd like to ask that you prove that the 2007-2008 Patriots are better than either the 1985 Bears, the 1962 Packers, or the 1984 San Fransisco 49ers.

-I'll concentrate, for this argument, on the Packers (as they have had the best season this year). Feel free to argue this and premptively attack the other teams as well.

Players: The Green Bay Packers of 1962 have had the most hall of famers out of ANY team. Now, the Patriots haven't had enough time to get thier players in the Hall Of Fame, but I'll argue who is likely.

A List of the HOF Packers in 1962 (http://www.profootballhof.com...): Herb Adderley, Willie Davis, Forrest Gregg, Paul Hornung, Henry Jordan, Vince Lombardi, Ray Nitschke, Jim Ringo, Bart Starr, Jim Taylor, and Willie Wood. 11 players.

A List of Likely HOF Players on the Patriots of 2007: Tom Brady, Bill Bellichick, Junior Seau, Randy Moss, Richard Seymour, and (Maybe) Rodney Harrison. That's 7 guys. So the Patriots had worse players, but what would have happened had the team matched up?

Offense: We saw the Patriots almost get stopped by the New York Giants in the last game of the season. The Giants are nowhere near the best defensive team. I think it isn't a far cry to say that a team who in 4 games allowed only 14 points could beat the Patriots.

Defense: The Patriots haven't even had the best defense this year. Granted, it's good. But could it really stand up to Bart Starr and a team that racked up an astounding 628 yards on offense in one game (a playoff one at that).

Coaching: Vince Lombardi and Bill Bellichick. Arguably the two best coaches ever. However, I'm confident in saying that Lombardi is by far the best ever. If you feel this statement is wrong, feel free to argue, and I'll prove it. However, I don't want to waste space proving something that you might agree with. (Source: http://espn.go.com...)

Assuming both teams play at the top of their game, the Packers would win on all fronts. No question.

-I have room, so I'll cover the Bears next.

Players: I can't for the life of me find a list of the HOF players on the Bears, so I'll listen to your arguments on this.

Offense: While the Patriots are a good team offensively, the are not comparable to the 85' Bears. Make any argument about this, I'd love to hear it.

Defense: The Bears featured one of the best running backs of all time. The Patriots weakest facet of defense is the run stop. Added to that, they haven't faced a HOF running back. Loss here.

Coach: I think it'd be a win for you in the coaching department. But let's keep in mind that the coaches don't play, and a better coach can't make up for a worse team.

Win goes to the Bears.

-I found a quick link for the San Fransisco team: http://www.mercurynews.com...
Go crazy.

2. The second thing I can disprove is that the Patriots are not the best football team in history. Let's look to championships, longetivity, and HOF's.

Championships: The most Super Bowl wins is five – a record shared by the San Francisco 49ers (1982, 1985, 1989–90, 1995), the Dallas Cowboys (1972, 1978, 1993–4, 1996) and the Pittsburgh Steelers (175, 1976, 1979, 1980, 2006). Patriots haven't gotten their yet. You could argue they might, but the topic is "The patriots are the greatest football team in NFL history". Not "The Patriots Will Be The Greatest Football Team In NFL History."

Longetivity: The Patriots have just been good recently, not historically. Whereas teams such as the Packers, the Cowboys, and the Steelers have been good for decades.

HOF's: I believe the team with the most HOF's is the Bears, and then the Packers. However, I can guarentee it is NOT the Patriots. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Looking forward to the responses.
Debate Round No. 1
bonnieboy

Pro

ok....the patriots are not a bunch of cheaters. ok they cheated once, but a bunch oif teams have done the same whoever wrote that at the bottm. go f yourself
Rousseau

Con

Well... only one argument was made in bonnieboy's post. This was that the Patriots are not a bunch of cheaters because they only cheated once.

All definitions are from thefreedictionary.com

Just to be clear, the definition of cheater is:
v.tr.
1. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
2. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
3. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
4. To elude; escape: cheat death.
v.intr.
1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
3. Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.
n.
1. An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle.
2. One who cheats; a swindler.

It's nowhere stated that in order to be called a cheater, one must cheat multiple times. However, for clerical purposes, I'd like to concentrate on one definition: "An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle."

To clarify further, I'll define a and an

A - Used before nouns and noun phrases that denote a SINGLE but unspecified person or thing
An - An is in fact a weakened form of one; both an and one come from Old English n "one.

Both of these denote singular things. So therefore, to be a cheater, you only have to cheat once. Therefore, they are cheaters. This matters specifically because it makes their coach look alot less genious. Granted, he's probably a good coach... but the fact is, he cheated at least once. I'd also like to bring up the fact that this may not be the only time he cheated. This is just the only time he was caught.

Anyway, my opponent dropped all arguments (even though he did have time), and therefore the arguments should be treated as conceded arguments.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
bonnieboy

Pro

you know what. i probibly wont win this one, but all the patriots fans out there, we are gonna win the super bowl and i advise to vote for me or eslse they probibly wont win, because i am a majical jyspie and i will pown you asses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!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Rousseau

Con

Well, my opponent has made no attempt to respond to my points, nor counter my arguments... and that's exactly why I should win.

Also, I'd like to reprimand the crude language my opponent uses. It makes for a less enjoyable experience for all those involved.

There were a few arguments made in the comments, and while they shouldn't be voters, I'll respond.

Cheating Argument: So you believe, that in order to be a cheater, one must cheat multiple times. Well... look at my previous argument. The word cheater indicates that to be a cheater, you must cheat only once. The Patriots did that, and therefore should be labeled as cheaters. Exactly how much did they cheat? Who knows? There is no possible way to find out the amount of teams they videotaped, because they weren't always caught. However, that is no a reason to just assume they'd only done it once. Only a handful of steroid users have been caught, so does that mean that nobody else uses steroids? Of course not! It's just there is not enough proof to indict others. Exact same situation here. Look to ANY of the teams I listed above (Bears, Packers, 49er's) and NONE of them have any blemishes on their records. So, for all the reasons presented before this post, and in this post, I believe I have won the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
THE PARTRIOTS LOST

THEY WERE ALMOST BEAT BY MY EAGLES IN WEEK 12 WHEN THE IDIOTS HAVE MY EAGLES AS 25 POINT DOGS

THE PATS HAVE NEVER WON A SUPERBOWL DECISIVELY

THEY ARE NOW 3-1

THE STEELERS, NINERS AND COWBOYS ARE ALL BETTER TEAMS

SEE YA!

WOULDNT WANT TO BE YA!
Posted by farfrom123789 9 years ago
farfrom123789
as i said:the patriots will get a butt woopen from the giants and they did exactly what i said so that proves my point right there. the patriots are a good team and all but they cant beat the giants in the superbowl. they might have started on the right foot but t the ending eli manning and plaxico burress made a good partnership, remembered what they practiced and there it was they scored a touch down the way they practiced. that touchdown right there took the game and that was it all they had to do was go for tom brady and they were through. eli manning is the best quarter back in that game and so was tom brady but the patriots didn't win. so lets see what you have to say about that.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Guess they aren't..

<When will this be 25?>
Posted by farfrom123789 9 years ago
farfrom123789
i voted for con because the the patriots may get a butt woopen from the giants because the patriots dont stand a chance to the giants in the superbowl.
Posted by parothead13 9 years ago
parothead13
I voted for con because the pro didn't even make an argument and i hate the patriots
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
I voted for Rousseau because PRO's agruement was weak, at best. I do believe that the Patriots are one of the best teams in football ever.

Even if done in jest, bonnieboy's comment: "ya she is right you fat bitch" is uncalled for.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
I don't know how the voting will go in this, but I'd appreciate it if any voters will post their reason for voting.
Posted by bonnieboy 9 years ago
bonnieboy
ya she is right you fat bitch
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Actually hempforvictory , no that is not enough proof for me. If they were they would have gotten in trouble for it. Also the game they did get in trouble for the videotape was confiscated before they had a chance to ever watch it so that did not affect their winning or losing the game. Also it is not illegal to videotape , it was only illegal to do so from the distance it was done , another couple yards and they would not have even been in trouble. Also what about the Colts pumping noise at the game.. thats cheating , but you don't hear the pats whining about that.
Posted by bonnieboy 9 years ago
bonnieboy
kels rock! woooooooooooooot i love the pats and they are gonna win the f-ing superbowl! woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot
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Vote Placed by SquadSix 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Well, for conduct, even though it may have been joking for bonnieboy was threatening to in his words "pown them" so that seemed out of line. His grammar I saw was worse, and how can anyone say bonnieboy made a better argument?
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