The Instigator
GodSands
Pro (for)
Losing
53 Points
The Contender
pcmbrown
Con (against)
Winning
94 Points

The philosophy of the existence of God.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/5/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 9,067 times Debate No: 8540
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (104)
Votes (24)

 

GodSands

Pro

The philosophy of God is a great topic to look into if you want to think a little.

I am for God's very existence 100%, you would have to do alot of work and persuading to convince me into believing God ceases to exist. It would be like persuading me to live in a prison for my entire life in till I drop dead inside the prison walls, and not enjoying anything that life offers.

Now I have touched down on the matter of a prison cell, I would like to compare it with there being no God. A prisoner who will be in prison till death has no fear or no real control, no understanding of behavior or no law or rule which keeps the prisoner good to the law. Like those who lack the belief or knowledge of a living and just God. Like a prisoner has limits to what he can do, in that he can not break out or make a wall crumble to his knees and then walk out freely. But the prisoner can only scruple and attempt to fight his way out by tossing the prison guards about a room. Not really freedom if you ask me. But that is what the prisoner wants. To toss and hurt the wardon and the jail guards, like you want to do things immoral and against righteous thinking. Even if the prisoner were to break out, he his only free physically and that's only to an extent. He still knows he can not return to the prison or be seen by a police officer on watch for him. He can not work and will be continually running from justification day and night. Again that does not sound free.

With out a God there are no rules to such things as sexual immorality, so you go do them, there is no limit to hatred so you hate, even in secret you know your self you are trapped with something you rather not have. Who wants to hate? Only those who hate each other, hate love. Like a man in prison, which hates being in prison, you wouldn't rather hate, but you do anyway. You would rather not commit sexual immorality but you lack self control, which you want, but don't have. You would rather be free, not from sex and hatred of evil but from prison of lacking self control and hating love.

Now to get into God's existence of can God exist. Well can God exist? Sure why not? I am talking about the God of Jesus Christ. Not a God in which you may perceive as God, like a video game you play every spare minute. I am talking about can God of the entire universe and everything that exists exist? If there is a God like that, God needs to be perfect, perfection in a God covers everything to being eternal to being able to do anything anywhere. Can this God exist? Yes. If I can simply conclude this type of being of being perfect, then if God is perfect God must exist. Because if God was not perfect God would probably not exist. Not the one I am on about anyway.

If 1+1 can equal two then a perfect God would equal existence. Being real as 1+1 equaling two. Perfect means able to exist for one. But being perfect is something personal not something universal. If I was perfect at gaming or a certain sport, you would need to play against me to know that, otherwise it would be a choice to believe if I am perfect at gaming or a certain sport. So play against God, because if you do you are really playing for God, that is what makes God perfect right? Like it would make me perfect at gaming only if you were against me. You will lose because I am perfect, but you will enjoy it because it was perfect. It would make it imperfect if you didn't enjoy it. Right? It would just appear to you as imperfect, when really it was. Like God, you do not enjoy his existence so you say God is imperfect, making God cease to exist. The joy comes from the truth which Jesus Christ revealed to us. That though is another debate.

If everything exists and if everything that begins to exist has a cause then for everything to exist then must be something that is everlasting, since if there is not something that is everlasting, not everything can exist. I do not want to get into the argument of the square circle or 1+1=3 or anything like that. It proves nothing, since I am the one who witnesses the universe from my eyes, thoughts and feelings of my five sensors. How would a square circle feel or look like? My brain is simply tuned into what a human can see and witness possible. God yet made us, we therefore can witness God by understanding that He did. I wouldn't mind myself as a friend and I would assume so goes for you, or as a son or daughter and therefore why wouldn't God make us, if He could and as He has done, we are here now.

What stops one from believing God exists? Is it your perception of God not showing true from your inexperienced mind? Or that there is no universal proof? By saying there is no proof of God is like saying there is no source of light because the light is too strong to see where the light is coming from. You can not see where the light is coming from as it consumes your entire range of sight, of that it is just whiteness. Everywhere you look the same tone implies, just bright white light. How do you know it is light? If it does not light up any darkness, or when you shut your eye it makes no difference at all. You though are aware you can close your eyes because you feel the eye lids close tight. Like this light, God is the same, as if there is to much proof of God it contradicts what proof for God is. God is so close to you that God is everywhere because you are not.

Satan leaches off of this, there are two sides to everything, there are two sides to a sheet of paper as much as there is to Hitler being correct in what he did. You see that what Hitler did though unacceptable however, evil and totally against all that we know as good. Yet why can't that what Hitler did be good and what we say against Hitler be evil and corrupt? Where is your reason against what he did was evil? So Satan twists the existence of God into a matter of God is so close we can think God does not exist because if God is perfect God would not become imperfect by allowing He exists to everyone. That would be almost boastful and cruel to those who hate God. Like Satanist's and some atheists, cannibals or people who just simply want to find out the truth in their own time. For God to show everyone He exists would be like showing everyone a dead body, by that some mothers would cover their children's eyes with their hands, so it would be like those mothers covering up their children's eyes for if God was to show Him self to all. Stop saying, "God show your self if you exist." Because that is betraying the world and it's belief's. If you are an atheist that is what you are doing. However you never mean it, since if you did, wouldn't you go for Christ Jesus before hand?

Satan cares if God exists but does not care about God. So Satan will make him seem hidden so God will seem none existent, Satan does not care about God, therefore will not un-cover him self. Wouldn't that be the perfect plan against a perfect God. Again perfection is personal, it is up to you to search God out. I have and I am very sure I am right to say, "God exists." If God didn't what do I mean by what I have said?

Thank you.
pcmbrown

Con

My opponent is stating that the probability of God's existence is 100%. However, it is widely accepted that absolute empirical proof does not exist. Hence, the only possible proof is derived from formal logic. If my opponent can demonstrate such a proof, showing that God exists, undoubtedly, then he has upheld the resolution. Otherwise, the resolution falls, because my opponent has adopted the burden of absolute proof.
Debate Round No. 1
GodSands

Pro

A good in-closed concentrated argument from my foe. I still think God exists 100%. Since I think 100%, there is no doubt, so God exists no question on my arguments behalf. By me giving you in-debatable evidence for God, would be like life being taken away all together, and they you asking for proof for life. You see God and life are both the same God is life, life is God. You believe nature created life I believe God created life. Nature is life, life is nature. What is the difference? If you choose nature as the answer you have just made your just and righteous judgment a delusion, when clearly righteousness and justification is not. God is righteous and Just, what then makes God none existent? What blocks God from existing? Is it your thoughts or is it that God is lost, like a lost one pence piece to a rich man, but which the man needs it so he can effort a knew car, he is also one pence short. Like you desire truth you dislike the effort needed to find it. You will also be one short of the truth because you believe there is no God. That being how did the universe come to be?

I can simply say, "God is perfect and therefore God made the universe at His command." You believe in science without seeing the science, you place your faith into science because of that reason. You seem to be asking for universal proof of God, like I have said, God is personal to a person like a father is to a child. We're Gods children and God is our Father, not only that but our dad in heaven.

God is so obvious that there needs to be people like you to try and disprove God. You could that that to me, but there we go. God is so obvious even His creation's creations claim there is a God. Video gaming and film, cars and damns etc... Beavers have the perfect technique to make a damn, we learn from them in engineering to help us build a damn. And the beavers are born with this gift. How do they know how to build one. Their genetics may answer the question? But it might also not? DNA proves there is a designer. The Golden Ratio proves God, of that it is a design of His. All the sea shell's spirals are twisted clockwise. Why?

If there was no first cause then there is nothing. That first cause is God. God is the structure of life. as everything has a structure, God is the universe's structure. If God is perfect and by definition God can create, build and make anything He wants, surely nothing can not allow God from existing? Am I right? If I am not why am I not. And I want logic what defies that, not any of, "It's circular reasoning" rubbish. Or, "Just because you can say it does not mean it is true" Junk. If you can not defy that God does not exist be proving that question incorrect to it's statement, that I must be correct.

Thanks, please I would like a good argument in the next round from my opponent. Thank you.
pcmbrown

Con

P1: The only argument I gleaned from this is that the universe must have been created in some manner. Many theories exist to explain this, e.g. the Big Bang Theory [1]. Of course, this theory is subject to criticism. However, creation by God is equally flawed. Who created God? The remainder of this paragraph seems to be devoted to calling me lazy, lost, delusional, etc.

P2: "You believe in science without seeing the science, you place your faith into science because of that reason." I base my belief in science upon data and empirical evidence. However, my faith in science is not absolute. No statement can be absolutely proved through empiricism, including the existence of God. "God is personal to a person like a father is to a child." This is definitely not "universal proof".

P3: My opponent still does not present absolute proof of God's existence. "Their genetics may answer the question? But it might also not? DNA proves there is a designer. The Golden Ratio proves God, of that it is a design of His. All the sea shell's spirals are twisted clockwise. Why?" My opponent concedes that genetics may answer this question. The
Golden Ratio is not an absolute proof either, it is merely evidence.

P4: What created God? Some cause must exist for Him.

My opponent has presented very little evidence for the existence of God, let alone an absolute proof. My opponent, in order to affirm his position, must prove, beyond any doubt, that God exists.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
GodSands

Pro

I am just going to get straight into the think. The Big Bang theory is infested with flaws and logical bomb pits, who or what created the Big Bang? It sure was not God. Not the Christian God in respects of other peoples beliefs. Evidence consists of an understand or clue of the core event. You were not there, like it says in Job, God speaks to Job, "Tell me how I made the foundations of the earth, for if you know tell me."

One thing that brings people to conclude something as the truth is to explain the why and how it is the truth. Why was there a Big Bang and how did the Big Bang come to be? If I was someone who believed or thought the Big Bang was the explanation of the beginning of the universe, I would either be missing something vital which explains in depth on why and how the Big Bang came to be or I dislike the idea of God and therefore unintentionally conclude the Big Bang brings acceptance to my sinful life style. You can have your 'science' of the Big Bang theory but in till you solve the how and the why, I can only say we are just as useful as the Big Bang is duel to our lives in general, pointless and further more worthless as nothing, at the end of the day. I can also call you nothing and there is no long term explanation of why I am wrong in saying that. If there is no God.

Who created God? No one, God is everlasting, which makes God perfect, if God was made or created God would not be God. What you are doing is confusing your own self by assuming God is not everlasting and therefore dismissing one major quality of God's and handing it to another entity which consumes this eternal, never ending puzzle, who created God game. If you were to ask God something prior to a made belief universe of your own, what would you ask God? Who made you? That would be an illogical question, since wouldn't you ask the being which created God and not God. You would be asking God who created God. It is not to difficult to get a grip, you are only confusing your self, not me. And it's a waste of time to be honest.

God is out side time, since time needs matter and a space to exist. Without space no matter can exist, without matter no space can exist. I believe space exists when there are only boundaries, no boundaries no spaces. May sound off but if you think about it for a minutes it will make sense. If there was unlimited space, up, down left and right you might as well not be moving at all. No space to move, however as soon as you add, says a house you can identify your movement clearly. Now people are going to say, "Well you are still moving even if it seems like you are not." But! You are forgetting that to be able to exist in an unlimited, timeless place, you would need to be a spirit. Beyond my intelligence of understanding, but they have a conscious, and that allows them to live, and visualise like physical humans can, yet what separates them from physical humans is that they can time travel, fly and freeze time etc...We though are limited by our physical bodies. So with no physical body, I can not measure any distance and there are no physical boundaries making up space to contain. A place like this does not exist of course but with out time there is no matter or space. God exists as a timeless God because God can freeze time, go back and forward in time. And you may never know, God might see us as frozen right now. It would seem as normal to us since as time is frozen, it is only frozen for God. For example if I froze time and cleaned up your house it would be clean in a blink of an eye. A miracle perhaps? To answer your question, God caused Him self to exist. You will never reach the end of that, 'Who created God corridor' I believe my answer is respectable, since we are talking God here, not the unicorn.

You still have not answered this question I urge you to answer. If God, by definition can make, create and do anything anywhere what then would allow God to not exist? This is logical and has no flaws or gaps. Please share your thoughts on it. This is my main question to you, I would appreciate if you had a go, I know it's hard to pose your thoughts up against it.

You ask, "Who created God?", I ask what created nature? If not something spiritual, and nature can not create anything from nothing, like you can not create honey from nothing, how did nature create it's self if you only believe in physicality and nothing spiritual? (Mainly aimed at atheists.) If you have any evidence of this, video tape it and show me, yet the world would want to know anyhow.

You agree with me that the Golden Ratio is evidence of God, and of evolution I assume? I do not want to get into that so much. But have we not even mention Satan? The existence of Satan is feeble but clear once you are in the light. Just like when you shine a bright light in the dark, the darkness is no more. The same effect occurs with Satan. Ever heard of the God delusion by Richard Dawkins? Well if not Dawkins tries to disprove God while at the same time assault God with negativity and abuse. If Dawkins can dedicate him self to the God delusion, surely the Devil delusion is a next, must write project, no...? No! Of course not, there is a big reason why too. Since I am a Christian who believes that Satan exists, yet believes that Satan have tricked the world into thinking he does not exist or not thing about Satan at all. Most certainly then if an atheist like Dr Dawkins was to write the Devil Delusion, it would prove that Satan exists, right? My faith is that Satan is in hiding, seemingly none existent to the human race, so if I was delusional about Satan, then Satan would be seen, yes. I hope you understood that. It is important you understand.

I have not set up this debate so that you can just read what I have typed, but I was hoping for some evidence against the existence against God, which you have yet to show. I suppose you might be happy with, "God exists for sure, God just isn't in anyway connected with us." That sound nice, doesn't it? Because we both win, and you get away with the justification part. No, you have to face the truth, when some Christians say, "We are like an atom's atom to God." They are using God in a idiotic fashion, the Bible says not to limit God. God is beyond our thinking and philosophical imaginations. God spoke and there was a universe. Sure you could say, "Why didn't God build?" But God knows the future, and knew that this universe would not last. So God spoke and created this universe. Jesus said that we will be like him in heaven, as in we will be able to do the things he will be able to. I am going a little off topic, so I will get back onto the road.

Beyond any doubt God exists: It is not God holding Him self back, but you holding your self back from God. Your brain is your core nervous system, nothing exists out side your head in till your brain reads the information on the out side. Say, "My brain is God because it creates all things, without it, there is nothing." Your brain also can intake knowledge of how the universe functions and you would not have known of your brain if no one told you about it. You than could say, "That person created me!" But who told that person? And that person and so on...God knows the beginning from the end. God knows you more than you know your self. So does God exist? If you believe you know your self best, yet a person needed to tell you of your brain. You simply do not know your self any better, God knows you the best. By suggesting evolution is the answer is incorrect. When scientists first learnt about the brain, one must have said, "This is the core nervous system!" But yet really, it was all thanks to that one dead person being dissected. Sounds stupid, hey?
God exists, for me and for others.

If what I say is false then I simply say, "Well what the heck!" I hope this has been a great chance to learn. Thanks so much.
pcmbrown

Con

My opponent has presented a vast multitude of arguments. However, he has not affirmed the resolution. My opponent is arguing "for God's very existence 100%". Hence, he has the burden of absolute proof. He has not presented this, simply because absolute proof of any statement cannot exist. "God is out side time, since time needs matter and a space to exist...Beyond my intelligence of understanding." God's very nature, as proposed by my opponent, is beyond human comprehension. Therefore, God is outside the field of empirics and logic, and his existence cannot be proved. The resolution is negated, as my opponent cannot, and has not proved "100%", that God exists.

Thanks for the debate, thanks for reading, and vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
104 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GodSands 7 years ago
GodSands
Why aren't you a skeptic against evolution or the existence of God, oh right yeah, because your not one.
Posted by TheSkeptic 7 years ago
TheSkeptic
I agree - how the heck did you get even a single vote?
Posted by GodSands 7 years ago
GodSands
Looking back on this, I cannot believe the votes.
Posted by nephilim 7 years ago
nephilim
To physically explain God you must be Him. Many before Godsands here have tried a God's proof definition without this actually being considered sacrilegeous. The closer you come to truth the closer you come to God. His superiority to humankind is inquestionable. God simply is. However after Christ he ceased to judge good folk and thank God for that.
Posted by Lexicaholic 7 years ago
Lexicaholic
I want to see a debate between Conor and Godsands. Badly. Godsands come back!
Posted by GodSands 7 years ago
GodSands
Cool, anything you see me knowing, send me a message, always here to help anyone who want to know the Lord. The way to the one God.
Posted by Conor 7 years ago
Conor
Okay.
Posted by GodSands 7 years ago
GodSands
Well, yeah my existence was because of the thought of God's on even thinking of making me to begin with, I thank God for that, and for that I want to please God.
Posted by Conor 7 years ago
Conor
Is that your absolute reason? You want to please him because he made you? Just confirming.
Posted by GodSands 7 years ago
GodSands
Because he made me. Do you not want to please your perants and your boss? God is the same, you please God by doing good. I have pleased God today because I told many about Jesus, and how to get saved.
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