The Instigator
Darth_Grievous_42
Pro (for)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
cjet79
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

The police force is only around due to human stupidity.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/12/2007 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,366 times Debate No: 333
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (12)

 

Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

Anyone can fall down a flight of stairs and break a wrist, thus the need for on public service: health care. As well, any stray spark form a number of sources can cause a fire, thus the need for the second utility: fire control. However, it is a person's choice to steal a TV. It is a person's choice to take a knife and stab someone. It is a person's choice to kidnap a girl and rape her. Thus, the police force is only around to manage mankind's inner corruptness and evil. It is therefore the one public service that all of the world should be attempting to get rid of.
cjet79

Con

First off i would disagree that the medical expenses from falling down stairs and breaking your wrist should be paid by someone else. That is a personal responsibility issue, and i shouldn't have to pay for anyone's wrist but my own.

Second i think its debateable whether or not all humans are inherently stupid and evil. Self serving and imperfect, yes, but not necessarily stupid and evil.

Third and my actual real argument against what you say is...if humans are inherently stupid and evil then what makes the police different? Unless you have robots running around arresting people (which would still force us to deal with the inherent stupidity/evilness of lawmakers) then i dont see why police would not be plagued with the same problems as their citizen counterparts.

Just looking throughout history at any fascist regime, the police or the military are usually the first institutions to fall under the evil influence of the dictator. Then they are just used as weapons against the general population to force conformity.

I dont understand your last sentence: "It is therefore the one public service that all of the world should be attempting to get rid of."
It makes your entire position kind of ambigous. Are you suggesting that by getting rid of something that in your opinion is used to manage stupidity that the stupidity that they manage will disappear?
Debate Round No. 1
Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

First off, I never said anything about others paying for your broken wrist. I only said that breaking a wrist is something uncontrollable, that can happen to anyone, which also includes illness. I apologize if you interpreted health care to mean insurance. I'm only talking about the medical practice.

Second, it extremely debatable whether all humans are stupid and evil, I'm only making the point that the purpose of the police is to control those who are, beyond a doubt: stupid, corrupt, evil, wrongdoer's, etc. My word choices may not be exact, but I assume you get the gist.

What does make the police different? Nothing does. There are just as many corrupted cops as there are decent one's. But they can use that power, and 9 out of 10 times be found just through the legal system. Here is my main biff with the police: They only exist because there are scummy people. Their mere presence only means that the human race is desperately flawed. This includes the military. What I meant by my last sentence is that the common goal of the people should be to ensure that we no longer need a police force. Mankind should improve itself to the point where the police are obsolete and no longer needed. In a sense: lets get rid of the police.

The people's main goal should be to get rid of these two jobs by way of fixing themselves. The presence of two jobs specifically managed to deal with disagreements using brute force, quite frankly, are two payrolls this world should do without. At the moment, if either where to vanish, I think we can all agree that crime would run a mock. So no, I'm not saying that the stupidity will disappear should the cops go, I'm saying that once the stupidity goes, the cops will disappear, and should.
cjet79

Con

There have been many other systems throughout history to deal with those who are "stupid and evil". Many of them did not involve a police force. A form of banishment where the community members would refuse business to criminals was common. Before the last century the only police force used was a trained military, and only to quell rebellions or "bring order". So we essentially had no police force to speak of for thousands of years, and not because of a lack of stupid people or criminals.

In america during the 1800's there would only be a sheriff and he would call on the help of other townsmen if he had to arrest a dangerous criminal.

The police force is a direct result of the progressive movement in the early 20th century. The progressives thought that all problems could be magically solved through government intervention...if only the government worked right. So police forces were created in major cities to deal with crime, not because there was any evidence that a police force reduced crime, but because it made progressives feel happy about themselves. America's police force went into a major expansion during prohibition, because they became quite busy trying to stop alcohol sales and the huge crime wave caused by prohibition.

So in a way i agree that the police force is around because of human stupidity, but i do not think it is to deal with that stupidity. Rather, the police force is a direct result of the relatively naive and stupid ideas of the progressive era reformers.
Debate Round No. 2
Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

But there should be no need for a police force in the first place, throughout any time period. If people were to fix themselves, a police force would be made useless. No matter what the people did use before the police where invented, the point is that if man where less violent and criminalized there shouldn't have been need for any crime control force at all.

As for whether it was invented by naive progressive reformers, I have no opinion on that.

In conclusion, I once again state that the presence of the police force's around the world should call the people into action to try and better themselves. Not out of fear for being arrested but simply because we should be attempting to make ourselves a less violent, selfish, and ignorant people.
cjet79

Con

Thats certainly a noble goal, but i have no doubt that the people involved with this crime dont see it as a major concern. Their worries are more in line with a traditional criminal thought process, and not so much a philosophical one.

Humans can have tendencies towards violence and aggression, any movement to change that can only happen on a personal individual basis.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by cjet79 9 years ago
cjet79
Well yeah i kinda pointed out in my first response that i didnt understand him. Because i wasnt really clear on that part i just went after his argument that police are around cuz "people are stupid, and police go after stupid people". I didnt agree with that point and that was one of my main points of attack up until the concluding part, where he drifted away from arguing what we had a police force for.
Posted by la_bella_vita 9 years ago
la_bella_vita
it doesn't seem to me that cjet79 understood the argument (or at least what i understood the initial argument to be).

the point of this debate, as i saw it, was exactly summed up in the title, and in the last line of the first post. "the police force is only around due to human stupidity". Darth then argues that if humans didn't have those qualities that cause us to do things like kill and steal, there would be no need for a police force. thus "It is therefore the one public service that all of the world should be attempting to get rid of", meaning that we should be attempting to rid ourselves and the world of the qualities which make a police force necessary.

to debate this, one should try to prove that the police force has other uses other than just catching people who do bad things. Darth said nothing of how we should go about ridding the world of murder, rape and stealing, but only that this is something that we should strive for. to translate this again in relation to the topic... we should therefore then be "striving" to eliminate the need for a police force.

that seemed to be where this topic should have gone... i'm voting for Darth because while cjet argued decently, the fact that he didn't seem to understand the point is more important.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Mdal 9 years ago
Mdal
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Vote Placed by PreacherFred 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by la_bella_vita 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Darth_Grievous_42 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Lennox 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Maddy 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by repete21 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by buletman 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by forensics 9 years ago
forensics
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Vote Placed by cjet79 9 years ago
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