The Instigator
shakuntala
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Limp-shrimp
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

The positive review [from a poetry site] of this poem Gana Chut is very accurate

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Limp-shrimp
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/2/2013 Category: Arts
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,033 times Debate No: 36293
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

shakuntala

Pro

I agree with this review- from a poetry site -of this poem Gana Chut I regard it as very accurate

http://www.scribd.com...

to see review
http://www.wattpad.com...
quote
"That was shockingly amazing! I love the Irony between the name ....and the imagery of the seduction. The poem was transportive, I felt that I was there in the room with the lovers, experiencing the awe of the man as he worshipped the wonder of the woman's sex. Good work and very unique writing.
Limp-shrimp

Con

I will assume that since you are opening this up to pro-con debate that you are looking for criticism. That is fine- I think conversations about poetry are a good thing, even if this entire debate is completely subjective. Since I am the con it is my just to subjectively criticize you.

1. The poetry as it is placed on the scribd page is almost completely unreadable because you have placed low quality images of rugs behind the text which contrasts poorly with the black text. I also question whether or not you own the copyright to said rug images which might be an infringement of copyright policy and grounds for having the work removed.

2. The refrain "piss flaps" which is punctuated repeatedly by references of having one's partner urinate on them is frankly disgusting to anyone who is not interested in water sports. The whole poem seems to be obsessed with female genitalia with very little scope for anything else like the location or the emotional attitude or circumstances of the two lovers aside from their lust.

3. The "review" that you quote is actually just a comment posted on Wattpad, a site whose main demographic group is teenagers and preteens. The content of your poem could possibly cross from erotic into pornographic, making me question whether or not this work constitutes a violation of their terms of service.

4. All remarks here are subjective regarding the truthfulness of a comment given on a poem. I believe that I have successfully demonstrated a counter to that.
Debate Round No. 1
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"3. The "review" that you quote is actually just a comment posted on Wattpad, a site whose main demographic group is teenagers and preteens."

What are saying the likes of teens and preteens have no value
if you are then how can you explain the success of the harry potter series of books-are you saying harry potter books are rubbish because teens and preteens them
Limp-shrimp

Con

I think it is worth noting that you have failed to address any of my other points- and the point that you attempted to address actually hasn't been answered at all.

I am not saying that the opinions of teenagers and preteens are of no account. I will say that their opinion of what writing deserves merit and which writing does not should not be used as a reliable standard. I think that based on sales, a majority of teen females prefer Twilight to Phillip K. Dick. I think that even though the comparisons of two books has to be made from a subjective viewpoint- Do Robots Dream of Electric Sheep? Is superior to Twilight in many ways. Therefore teenagers might not be a reliable judge of what is good and what is not.

Furthermore, you are out of luck if you want to try to prove that your writing is objectively "amazing." Personally I felt something a bit more like disgust, which might be a more normative response to a poem that refers to a woman's genitals as "piss flaps."

Overall I find the poem unnecessarily vulgar. That is my subjective opinion and the opinion of many others if we look at your "times viewed" and compare it to the number of people who liked it enough to give it a "vote".

I think that you have already lost this debate- and while I respect your desire to discuss poetry and other writing forms, I think that debate.org is perhaps the wrong place to do it since it deals more with objective truths than subjective opinions. There are plenty of writing communities and forums out there where these questions would fit better I think.
Debate Round No. 2
shakuntala

Pro

con has gone into an emotional rant about things not relevant to the post ie is the positive review is accurate
but after all his ranting it comes down to this

con says
"Overall I find the poem unnecessarily vulgar. That is my subjective opinion and the opinion of many others if we look at your "times viewed" and compare it to the number of people who liked it enough to give it a "vote".

note
"Overall I find the poem unnecessarily vulgar"

but that has nothing to do with the argument I claim ie the positive review is accurate
the poem may be vulgar but that has nothing to do with the claim the positive review is accurate

ie
"quote
"That was shockingly amazing! I love the Irony between the name ....and the imagery of the seduction. The poem was transportive, I felt that I was there in the room with the lovers, experiencing the awe of the man as he worshipped the wonder of the woman's sex. Good work and very unique writing."

con is allowed to have his subjective opinion but just saying the poem is vulgar does refute my claim that the positive review is accurate

thus con has not shown why he has taken the con position and refuted my claim
all he has said is the poem is vulgar
Limp-shrimp

Con

Limp-shrimp forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ClassicRobert 3 years ago
ClassicRobert
Of course you agree with it. It is a positive review of your own poem that you are essentially just advertising.
Posted by Oromagi 3 years ago
Oromagi
so I take that stands for Shakespeare - people who say he is a great poet are just being subjective then based on your view

That is correct. Artistic expression is between the artist and her art. Some people hate Shakespeare, who am I to tell them they're not allowed to feel that? You can't objectively prove that Shakespeare is better than Arthur Miller, say. The truth resides in the heart and is different for every human.

"Debating whether one artist is better than another misses the point of artistic expression, "

so Dean is just as good as Shakespeare then based on your view

You are correct. All art is equal in artistic value. Just because Shakespeare makes me soar and C Dean makes me puke in my mouth a little does not make one objectively better than the other, that's just my reaction.

what cant you gives us your subjective opinion of the Gana Chut

This is the comments section so I feel free to offer my entirely subjective reaction to your debate challenges,

which is "yuck"
Posted by shakuntala 3 years ago
shakuntala
it is said
"Debating poetry is pointless. Art is subjective, so the argument always comes down to "I feel this way." Since nobody's going to tell you how to feel, there are no honest points to discuss. Debating whether one artist is better than another misses the point of artistic expression, "

so I take that stands for Shakespeare - people who say he is a great poet are just being subjective then based on your view
or
"Debating whether one artist is better than another misses the point of artistic expression, "

so Dean is just as good as Shakespeare then based on your view

it is said

"Knock it off, Shakuntala. Your debates are a colossal bore."

what cant you gives us your subjective opinion of the Gana Chut
Posted by Oromagi 3 years ago
Oromagi
Debating poetry is pointless. Art is subjective, so the argument always comes down to "I feel this way." Since nobody's going to tell you how to feel, there are no honest points to discuss. Debating whether one artist is better than another misses the point of artistic expression, and so debaters on this subject don't understand art sufficiently to make a discussion worthwhile.

Shakuntala's itchy habit of posting 3 or 4 pointless debates a day (and losing any that anybody bothers to challenge) is repetitive noise, verging on pollution and disrespect.

Worse, all debates are thinly veiled promotions for a single poet, C Dean. I assume that Shakuntala and Dean are the same person since it us hard to imagine anybody else being a fan of her rabid, trite, urine-soaked, pseudo-erotic, pseudo-goth blandishments.

Knock it off, Shakuntala. Your debates are a colossal bore.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ModusTollens 3 years ago
ModusTollens
shakuntalaLimp-shrimpTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:14 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Pro for the forfeit. S/G to Con because s/he bothered to use grammar. Argumentst to Con because A) the proffered "review" is a comment, not a review, and B) Con's comments concerning the scope of the poem are correct.