The Instigator
bluejoewho
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points
The Contender
ComradeJon1
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

The president of Iran did not say he wanted to wipe the Jewish people off the map.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/21/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,086 times Debate No: 2845
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (3)
Votes (7)

 

bluejoewho

Pro

This lie is retold almost daily in one form or another throughout the american media. Its a lie that all americans should be aware of. Bring it.
ComradeJon1

Con

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday lambasted Israel and Zionism and quoted the late Ayatollah Khomeini calling for Israel to be "wiped out from the map."

(CNN.com)

BAM, you lose
Debate Round No. 1
bluejoewho

Pro

My opening statement said that the American media had been retelling this lie and you turn around and give me a quote from the American media. Not only that but CNN. So If CNN says it's so it must be correct. Let me show you how correct CNN is.

This is a word for word translation of what Ahmadinejad actually said:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Notice the word "regime" in there. He's clearing speaking about a change in the leadership of Israel. But hey don't take my word for it.

1)"The fact that he compared his desired option - the elimination of "the regime occupying Jerusalem" - with the fall of the Shah's regime in Iran makes it crystal clear that he is talking about regime change, not the end of Israel. As a schoolboy opponent of the Shah in the 1970's he surely did not favor Iran's removal from the page of time. He just wanted the Shah out."—Johnathan Steele, The Guardian

2)"So he didn't say, 'wipe off the map,' he said 'erase from the page.' What's the difference? Anyway he's saying he wants to get rid of Israel." But Cole explains why the mistranslation significantly distorts the Iranian leader's words. "Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope -- that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah's government. Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that 'Israel must be wiped off the map' with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time."-- Juan Cole, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at University of Michigan (written by Gary Leupp)

3)The translation presented by IRIB has been challenged by Mr. Arash Norouzi, who proposes that the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". He says that the Iranian government News Agency IRIB/IRNA translation is the source of the myth:
One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.[12]—wikipedia
ComradeJon1

Con

You gave me his exact words, translated. He said the ayotollah wants the current regime that occupies jeruselum (israel) to be wiped off the map. The ayotollah, as a theocratic ruler, represents the ideas of Iran. Your persoanl interpretation is delightful, but the words were there.

Im not claiming anything about Mr. Adhamadinejad or that Iran is a bad place. i can only say: he said what he said.
Debate Round No. 2
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by zarul 9 years ago
zarul
Indeed, unless

Israeli state = the Jewish People

then Ahmadinijad did not say he wanted to wipe the Jewish people off the map.
Posted by bluejoewho 9 years ago
bluejoewho
my personal interpretation. Theres a difference between wanting to wipe a particular people out and wanting to wipe out a regime. Do you not get this?
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
Besides, they don't want to get rid of jews, they just want Jerusalem back. They feel, it was taken, which I believe is some what true. It has been taken to a violent extreme, but the inner meaning is true.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by MVictorP 9 years ago
MVictorP
bluejoewhoComradeJon1Tied
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Vote Placed by silveracer 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Vikuta 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Pricetag 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by blond_guy 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by ComradeJon1 9 years ago
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