The Instigator
Pro (for)
8 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

The prophecy in Luke 21:6-32, Matthew 24:2-34, and Mark 13:2-30 is a failed prophecy.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/30/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,375 times Debate No: 58355
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)




The prophecy, that I consider failed, in Luke 21:6-32, Matthew 24:2-34, and Mark 13:2-30, in summary, says:
1. Jesus said that not one of the temple's stones would be left on another.
2. Jesus said that there would be signs that show that it is going to happen.
3. Jesus said that all of these things would be done before Jesus' and His disciples' generation passed.

Jesus' disciples asked when '1.' would happen and what the sign telling that it happened would be.
Since their generation has passed, yet all of the signs did not happen, this a failed prophecy.


I like to thank my opponent for offering this debate I will begin by addressing my opponent's lack of understanding of the context he is reading.

1. If Christ said not one stone will be left on top of another. Please explain the wailing wall. There are still stones stacked on top of each other.

2. The signs are all around if you choose to look.
Christ said many will come in his name claiming to be sent by Christ.
But read. Matthew 24:23-24
Then if anyone says to you, Look there is the Christ! of There do not believe it.
For false Christ's and false prophets will rise to show great signs and wonders, to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

3. My opponent is wrong again because the generations of the jewish people and the disciples continue to this day. Can you say the holocaust failed to make the jews pass away?

The bible is about one man (Christ, God, The Alpha of the bible=Adam=Christ in Eden not virgin born yet. The Omega), His Family the Nation of Israel, and their impact on the earth, past, present, and future. Now common sense say's Christ has not ruled this earth yet.
Example of taking the bible out of context. When did Christ fight?
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh , and thy spoil shall be divided in the midstof thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the cityshall be taken , and the houses rifled , and the women ravished ; and half of thecity shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut offfrom the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth , and fight against those nations, aswhen he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount ofOlives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of themountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:and the LORD my God shall come , and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark : 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

Anyone who says this past history is just wrong. As the Mt. Olives are split, the wailing wall will come down. Simple. Yet future.
Debate Round No. 1


1. The wall, if part of what Jesus was talking about, actually would show that it was a failed prophecy.

2. Many have claimed to be the Messiah (or Christ), even many years ago.

3. 'Generation':
"A single step or stage in the succession of natural descent; a rank or degree in genealogy, the members of a family from the same parents, considered as a single unit."

4. Yes, common sense says that those things haven't happened, therefore, it is a failed prophecy.
Not only that, but how will Yahweh rule this old earth, if it will be destroyed?
Surely it is speaking of the old earth, yet the day of Yahweh signals the destruction of the old earth.
Psalms 102:25-26
"Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:"
Isaiah 51:6
"Lift up your eyes to the heavens, look at the earth beneath; the heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment and its inhabitants die like flies.
But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail."
Matthew 24:35/Mark 13:31
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."
2 Peter 3:10-13
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."
Revelation 21:1
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."


My opponent's argument is so silly it is laughable. Duh? Can you say clueless?

My opponent's offers his own personal opinions on what 'he' considered as a failed prophecy.
Jamie Foxx Calls Barack Obama LORD and SAVIOR 2012 ...

These 10 Bible prophecies were fulfilled after 1948, when Israel became an independent country for the second time in history. These prophecies foretold of modern Israel's stunning military victories and of its transition from a desert wasteland to a prosperous nation.
60 Genuine divine Bible prophecies fulfilled

I offer a simple analogy to prove just how weak my opponent's argument is, concerning failed prophecy:
Your mechanic tells you that your car is two quarts low on oil, the oil is dirty and the oil filter needs changing. One could do nothing and still drive that car, very carefully, on very short trips for a very long time. Ignoring the mechanic's warning, as bad worthless advice. Much like my opponent's sorry/ feeble attempt to mock God's Word that "he" considers as failed prophecy.
My opponent posted: "1. The wall, if part of what Jesus was talking about, actually would show that it was a failed prophecy."

(If my opponent is suggesting that Christ is not referring to Solomon's Temple that was rebuilt by King Herod, that is now the wailing wall! As a reality, then my opponent is indeed clueless! I also refute your assumption that Christ did not mean exactly what He said, suggesting that Jesus Christ can not count, one stone left on top of another.Christ will finish the job Himself is where my opponent erred again!)

2. Many have claimed to be the Messiah (or Christ), even many years ago.
(God given common sense says that this actually fulfills scripture, it does not disprove it. My opponent is making my point for me.)

3. 'Generation':
"A single step or stage in the succession of natural descent; a rank or degree in genealogy, the members of a family from the same parents, considered as a single unit."

(The bible is a Hebrew/Greek document so, a intelligent student with God given common sense, would use a lexicon or concordance. Not Wikipedia's opinions where anyone can offer their own interpretation on anything. Try common sense and see clearly!
Strongs #1074 begs to differ. My opponent is babbling off the top of his own head. I will attempt to educate: 'Words do not mean 2000+ years ago same as usages is today. The Strongs reference guide is very useful. Unlike other Biblical reference books, the purpose of Strong's Concordance is not to provide content or commentary about the Bible, but to provide an index to the Bible. This allows the reader to find words where they appear in the Bible. This index allows a student of the Bible to re-find a phrase or passage previously studied. It also lets the reader directly compare how the same word may be used elsewhere in the Bible. In this way Strong's Notes provides an independent check against translations, and offers an opportunity for greater, and more technically accurate understanding of text.' )
Result of search for "1074":

1074. genea ghen-eh-ah' from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

4. Yes, common sense says that those things haven't happened, therefore, it is a failed prophecy.
Not only that, but how will Yahweh rule this old earth, if it will be destroyed?
(Wrong again! My babbling opponent babbled again, let's try common sense: Christ returns to Mt. Olives to fight against the nations that attack Israel. Then the 1000 year of Christ rein on earth. Then The White Throne Judgement Hellfire. Then the new heavens and the new earth. My opponent is all mixed up!)

My opponent posted:
'Surely it is speaking of the old earth, yet the day of Yahweh signals the destruction of the old earth.'
Again I strongly suggest my opponent at least read the bible once before debating it. Surely my opponent does not have a clue what he is talking about. Again one must refer to the Hebrew and the Greek. We do not get a brand new different heaven and earth. Duh, the earth and heavens get renewed. Same old earth, with Eden restored with Adam=Alpha of bible= The Root of David= Christ ruling the earth's governments.
Global Empower Media ~ Uniting Nations in Peace: Commissioned ...
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Jesus Christ is given Authority to be King. The Orb that Queen Elizabeth II is seen holding is representing the world. The scepter is the 'rod of iron' ...
Psalm 2:9
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel
Revelation 2:27
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Yes while my opponent mocks the Lord, the trap is already sprung! God said His people are sottish=stupid!
Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I refuted my opponents claims. However he really offered nothing at all.

Debate Round No. 2


About those 10 fulfilled prophecies from

1. "Israel will prevail over its enemies" (Isaiah 41:12-14)
14 says, "Do not be afraid, you worm Jacob, little Israel, do not fear, for I myself will help you," declares the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel."
Has Yahweh helped them Himself?

2. & 3. "The ruins of Israel would be rebuilt/Ezekiel prophesied prosperity for modern-day Israel" (Amos 9:11, 13; Ezekiel 36:11)
The verses before in Amos 9 tell of Israel's destruction, and 11 starts with, "In that day".
This shows that Israel's restoration was meant to be shortly after its destruction.

4. "Trees again would grow in Israel" (Isaiah 41:18-20)
This has happened, however, 20 says, "so that people may see and know, may consider and understand, that the hand of the Lord has done this, that the Holy One of Israel has created it."
This feat was not done by Yahweh, but rather by humanity.

5. "Isaiah said Israel's fruit would fill the world" (Isaiah 27:6)
This has not happened.

6. "Jerusalem would become the world's most important religious site" (Micah 4:1)
1 says, "In the last days the mountain of the Lord"s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and peoples will stream to it."
This has not happened.

7. "Egypt would never again rule over other nations" (Ezekiel 29:15)
This still remains to be seen, as 'never' can be quite a long time.
For now, it may be right, but I haven't much knowledge of Egypt's CE history or its current state.

8. "Zechariah prophesied the Jews return to Jerusalem" (Zechariah 8:7-8)
This has apparently happened many times.

9. "Israel's deserts will become like the Garden of Eden" (Isaiah 51:3)
This still remains to be seen.

10. "Isaiah foretold of the worldwide return of Jews to Israel" (Isaiah 43:5-6)
This has happened.

As for your analogy:

The analogy does nothing to discredit my argument.
Warner (Jesus) - warning (end times) - requirement (that generation alive) - ignore - that generation died - safe
Warner (mechanic) - warning (engine failure) - requirement (oil running out/filter clogging) - ignore - oil gone/filter clogged - dangerous

On to your rebuttal:

1. You're right.
I should have said "The wall, being part of what Jesus was talking about, actually would show that it was a failed prophecy."

2. My point was that it is no different now than it was then.

3. I do use Strong's Concordance, as a matter of fact, and 'genea', used in Luke 21:32, Matthew 24:34 and Mark 13:30, does not mean nation nor race, rather it means, "A single step or stage in the succession of natural descent; a rank or degree in genealogy, the members of a family from the same parents, considered as a single unit", as I've said before.

4. You're right.
I mixed the Day of the Lord up with the second coming.
However, I have read the Bible, more than once, as I am a former Christian.
Also, they will be destroyed, and new ones will be made.
'touton' - "these"
'panton' - "all"
'lyomenon' - "being dissolved"
'kainos' - "new"


My opponent still wants to mock God. I will address his 10 points one by one.

1. Israel has prevailed over anyone who has tried to attack them. So my opponent is wrong again.
So common sense again says when Israel loses, God attacks = Last Day.
I will educate my clueless opponent, on the history of Israel.
Israel won the even with the odd's in the emeny's favor.

2. The bulk of Ezekiel is about Christ's 1000 year rein. My foolish opponent is asserting the Ezekiel's Temple was a part of past history when in fact it is yet future. Wrong Again!

Millennial Temple Model of Ezekiel's vision, Third 3rd temples

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Millennial Temple Model of Ezekiel's vision, Third 3rd temples, 40-48 Jesus Israeli Land Holy Portion Jewish Messiah Yahshua

Third Temple

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This article is about the unrealized Jewish temple as described in the Book of Ezekiel. For Herod the Great's massive renovation of the Second Temple, see Herod's Temple.
The visionary Ezekiel Temple plan drawn by the 19th-century French architect and Bible scholar Charles Chipiez

The Third Temple, or Ezekiel's Temple (Hebrew: בית המקדש השלישי‎: Beit haMikdash haShlishi), is a Jewish Holy Temple architecturally described and prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel, a house of prayer for all people with a sacrificial service. It is noted by Ezekiel as an eternal edifice and permanent dwelling place of the God of Israel on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem

3. Now my silly nonsensical opponent does not know that Jews are very prosperous.
Forbes' Billionaires: The Richest Jews in the World / Jspace News
www.jspace.com620 × 434Search by image
J-Connection: Paulson's mother is descended from Jewish immigrants from Europe. His father, though an atheist, attended synagogue with the family.

4&5. Israel exports their products all over the world. Leaders in food, water purification, medicine, and technology. So now my opponent asserts that men/humanity grew plants without God's help because He controls the weather. If my opponent was correct no one would lack food.

Israel and Stuff » Israeli exports have jumped from $6M to $91B ...
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Page by Phillip Pasmanick - Israeli exports - Photo Avishag Shaar Yashuv. Israeli exports – Photo: Avishag Shaar Yashuv. According to IEICI calculations, this is the sixth highest ...

6. Well if tomorrow comes then, God given common sense say's yesterday was not the last day. Duh!
End Of The World Wallpaper Wallpaper

7. Egypt is in no shape to take care of itself. And has never rose to be a world power. Since the time of the Pharaohs.
Prayer versus Water Cannon in Egypt today!
The Sinai May Be the Next Middle East Hot Spot
ceiprophecy.com550 × 330Search by image
By Tom Chapman | September 17, 2012 at 10:34 am | No comments | Egypt, Israel, Israeli Current Events, Middle East, Prophetic, World Events

8-9-10. Wrong again! Zechariah spoke of the 1000 years of Christ's rule on this earth. Refer to Zechariah 14 after Christ fights the nations that attack Israel. If my opponent had God given common sense, then he would understand the differences between past, present and future. Also an intelligent bible student knows the scriptures are not in chronological or sequential order concerning prophecy. He denies common sense exists so my opponent say's God will not keep his word. At the time of the disciples they were told to spread the gospel to the whole world. They were walking, no car, jet, or Internet. So that the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. So to literally, physically spread the gospel would take longer than the lifetime of one mans personal family could live, so the correct use of generation is nation, of one family.(Jacob and 12 sons/tribes of Israel) So I will educate my opponent, nothing about bible prophecy has failed. Except my opponent's lack of understanding, and the ability to understand the correct context he is reading. So he babbles.

A. I would like to ask my opponent to please explain which ones of the disciples generations died safe. John died in prison, the rest was killed violently. 33 years after Christ rose from the dead, Israel fell, creating the wailing wall. And Israel was scattered. So I refute your claim of failed prophecy because none of that generation died safely.

B. The worldwide return of the Jews happens when Christ returns. It has not already happened yet, Why Christ is not here. If my opponent was not truly clueless then he would know that those in Israel claiming to be Jews are not of the family of God.

Luke 21:7-24

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 9:62 = Backsliders who Quit!

Debate Round No. 3


1. I never said that they have not prevailed over anyone.
I only asked, "Has Yahweh helped them Himself?"

Also, the odds were in Israel's favor.

2. & 3. The writer, of the article that you linked to, asserted that it was present.
You also didn't address Amos.
Also, if you were implying that Bill Gates and Barack Obama are Jewish, they aren't.

4. Man used irrigation systems to redirect water.
Rain did not magically make everything grow.

5. They still don't send things to certain areas, and the verse says "fill all the world".

6. Obviously, it isn't the last day, but for some reason, it was included in that list of fulfilled prophecies.

7. That doesn't mean that it can't.

8., 9. & 10. Again, these were for some reason, included in the list of fulfilled prophecies.

A. I never said that they died safe.
I said, "Jesus said that all of these things would be done before Jesus' and His disciples' generation passed", and that all of those things didn't happen before they died.

B. That is not why Christ is not here.

As for Luke 9:62:
If you are implying that I am like the one who puts his "hand to the plow and looks back", I'm not.
I was a Christian since I could remember, so I always had my hand on the plow.
I never knew what it was like to not be a Christian, so there was nothing to look back to.


telisw37 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


So, aside from the other things, the main argument:

The prophecy in Luke 21:6-32, Matthew 24:2-34, and Mark 13:2-30 is a failed prophecy because of the following reasons:
1. The end did not happen.
2. The Son of man did not arrive in the clouds with power and great glory.
3. The elect were not gathered.
4. Jesus told His disciples that the signs and the other things would happen before "This generation" (the people that were alive when Jesus and His disciples were alive) passed away (died), but the generation died without the signs happening.


Talk about a dumbass?
Debate Round No. 5
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ArcTImes 2 years ago
Having a beautiful argument is not a rule, but if the voters are not able to read the awful argument you are vomiting, then it doesn't matter what rules exist or don't exist. And yes, you don't care about debates, well most of us don{t care about your unintelligible preaching so.. I'm just commenting about the debate lol.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
If they had God given common sense. They would know that Theists do not care about words of men or winning debates. We only want to please our invisible sky daddy. With number of views. Duh! If they do not hate you, well Christ did not send you!
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
Babble Babble! Cry like a baby and read: no rules. So just shut up!
Posted by ArcTImes 2 years ago
btw, I'm actually fine if you take your time on your next round. I mean, even if you were right, you really need to fix the formatting so it's not difficult to read.
I really don't want to offend anybody, but bleeding from the eyes is a problem when trying to read a debate.
Posted by ArcTImes 2 years ago
"ActTimes are you a foolish babbling bonehead who babbles baby babble too????"

lol what?
Just breath and look at your second round.
Know be sincere and tell me if that's not horrible. I mean, it's not that hard for you because you already know what it says. But everything is horrible. The formatting is horrible, the arguments are horrible, the picture of the creepy dude is horrible. Bunch of mixed links, different sizes and fonts. WHAT THE ACTUAL FODGE?
Posted by GeminiContractor 2 years ago
Thank you for clarifying that.
Posted by WileyC1949 2 years ago
Concerning the "Wailing Wall" both of you are in error. The temple which existed in Christ's day was the Temple of Herod. The Wailing Wall is the last remnants of the Temple of Solomon, which was much older. The Temple of Herod was completely destroyed when the Romans attempted to eliminate the culture of the Jewish people. That event took place in 70 A.D...... after the Synoptic gospels were written, but before the end of the existing generation.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
ActTimes are you a foolish babbling bonehead who babbles baby babble too????
Posted by ArcTImes 2 years ago
@telisw37 rofl that second round is horrible.
Posted by GeminiContractor 2 years ago
No. I just wanted to debate it.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Wow. Okay. So Con managed to lose conduct even BEFORE he forfeited a round. Con also seemed far too angry to properly address the motion. Though he quoted Strong's, that did NOT contradict Pro's point. Pro's resolution was on one SPECIFIC point/prophecy, so all the other listed ones are irrelevant. The specific prophecy, as listed in the resolution, was justified as a failed prophecy without meaningful rebuttal from Con. Con, less time insulting, more time debating. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro wins on definition of generation. Other prophesies irrelevant.