The Instigator
Kilk1
Con (against)
Winning
26 Points
The Contender
KingoSchenk
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The public school system is academically and socially superior to homeschooling

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Kilk1
Voting Style: Judge Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/11/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,000 times Debate No: 78591
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (5)

 

Kilk1

Con

Hello. Here are rules and definitions for this debate:

1. By "public school," I refer to a publicly paid school.
2. By "academically," I refer to how well one does in the educational side of school.
3. By "socially," I refer to how well one interacts with others, how outgoing one is.
4. By "homeschooling," I refer to the education of children at home, as opposed to the public school system.
5. By "homeschooling," I do not refer to "no-schooling" or the "school of hard knocks," in which the children are at home undergoing no curriculum.
6. Private schooling (and any other method of schooling, if such exists) is outside the scope of this debate.
7. The burden of proof is on Pro to show that students who attend the public school are better educated and more social than their homeschooled counterparts.
8. Pro will argue first, while I get the last word; I will not begin making arguments against the proposition during Round 1, and Pro is not permitted to post arguments during Round 3 (though Pro is allowed to post as long as the post does not contain arguments in favor of the proposition).

Thank you, and may the best man win!
KingoSchenk

Pro

I'm going to put my opinions right out there, showing both arguments and how I feel.

Environments:
- Being comfortable doesn't make a student better in the long run:
Focusing, bullying, and fashion anxiety are all things a child is going to need to get over

- Worst thing for a human is to be taught by one person.

Statistics and how they don't make a difference:
Here are the percentages of the reasons why kids are home schooled and my counteraction.

  • 48.9%- Can give child a better education at home - These are the parents that think they have what it takes to do everything better than many trained professionals that teach children.

1

  • 38.4%- Religious reasons - CDD and Hebrew school offer a good religious education that not only gives them their sacraments, but an understanding of the religious principles that they follow.

2

  • 25.6%- Poor learning environment at school - Children need to learn with distractions, bullying, and immunity for people that have germ -phobia. If a child can be bullied in elementary school than they are going to need to deal with it to learn when they get older.

  • 16.8%- Family reasons - This can mean many things and I'm assuming most are fears and children need to cope with it. News Flash, every child crys on the first day of school.

  • 15.1%- To develop character/morality - It's easy to say, Thank you to your parents but it's more difficult when you have to say it to your teaches and other adults.

  • 12.1%- Object to what school teaches - You may be totally against what your child is being taught but parents should know that a child learns best from seeing different points of views.

  • 11.6%- School does not challenge the child - The child should be in higher classes or go to a harder private school.

  • 11.5%- Other problems with available schools - I know a lot of people that absolutely hate their public school by high school and want to go but they can't pay other tuition's. This is a situation where I believe in home schooling.

  • 9.0%- Student behavior problems at school - They are not going to get over the problem by being at home.
    3

  • 8.2%- Child has special needs/disability - There are free special needs schools and even public schools offer it.



Thank you for reading.
I am eager to read my opponent's arguments and debate more.


Sources:
(1)http://www.publicschools.org...
(2)http://www.trinity.edu...

Debate Round No. 1
Kilk1

Con

Thank you for participating in this debate. To summarize your argument, you made many points. While some of them 1) reference private, non-public schools, which is out of the scope of the debate, and 2) deal with religion, which is not necessarily related to the debate—except when dealing with the interaction of others—the main point I want to make concerning Pro's points is the subject of theory. By "theory," I mean using reasoning to predict an outcome, as opposed to experimentation.

The problem with Pro showing the proposition to be true in theory is that such can also be used to show it to be false! For example, I can reference the ability of homeschoolers to pick their own material: One way it can be done now is via computers, which for example can have lectures as well as video solutions prepared by high-level teachers with PhDs and/or with an education at Harvard or Yale for every math problem on the course,[1] rather than having a public school force its material and teachers on students. I can then argue that this results in students getting better grades. I'm not saying that reasoning doesn't work, by any means; it does work, so long as it is done soundly. I'm just saying that the reasoning used in Pro's points seems to make sense at first, but other factors could be involved also that we are not seeing.

So how can this debate be settled if not by theory? The answer is by using statistics, as they are experimental and deal with real students who really have undergone homeschooling or the public-school system. Pro did give statistics, but they only dealt with reasons why people chose to homeschool. No statistics were given in regards to how academically and socially superior one method was over the other. However, Pro's second reference, if gone to, does have statistics on the students. It says that "On average, homeschoolers scored an average of 1.7 points higher on the ACTs (36 is the max. score) than non-homeschoolers" and that "Limited tests have shown that homeschoolers have above-average social and psychological development through their exposure to many different age groups and other activities to boost their social development."

Other statistics show that on average, homeschoolers did 37 percentile points better on standardized achievement tests than public-schoolers and that "In all areas of life, from gaining employment, to being satisfied with their home-schooling, to participating in community activities, to voting, home-schoolers were more active and involved than their public school counterparts."[2] In addition, another source shows their test scores to be "exceptionally high—the median scores were typically in the 70th to 80th percentile."[3] Homeschoolers have also been shown to be more mature: Homeschoolers entering a public highschool would hear "16- or 17-year-old kids talking about getting drunk and who’s sleeping with who, and they’d be like, 'Get real. Get a life.'"[4]

Again, thank you for accepting the debate. I will remind you that you will not be able to respond during the last round.[5] Also, I will remind ourselves that the burden of proof is on Pro to show that "The public school system is academically and socially superior to homeschooling." Since statistics show homeschoolers to be more academically and socially prepared than their public-schooled counterparts, the proposition must be false.

References
[1] E.g., http://www.teachingtextbooks.com...
[2] http://www.washingtontimes.com...
[3] http://www.parentingscience.com...
[4] http://www.pbs.org...
[5] Rule 8, given in Round 1
KingoSchenk

Pro

I wasn't able to get to the computer today so I have 3 minutes to give it all I got.


A question I would like you to ask yourself is: Is the higher grade worth it? The children don't always get a feel of what school is like and there stuck with their parents belief of what they think is right for them. In the end you may get good scores but everything would be thrown on yourself when you got out. Emotionally, it's not the right choice.
Debate Round No. 2
Kilk1

Con

After you accepted this debate, I realized that it needed four rounds in order for us to each argue three times, so this made the debate much shorter, with two argument posts. And the fact that you only got three minutes to respond with your second post makes things even worse. Therefore, I will repeal Rule 8, giving you an extra post after this one. I don't just want to win the debate; I want people to be convinced of the superiority of homeschooling.

A question I would like you to ask yourself is: Is the lower grade worth it? The public-schooled children don't always get a feel of what homeschool is like, and they're stuck with the government's belief of what they think is right for them. In the end you may get more perspectives (or not, considering the following quotation), but everything would be thrown on yourself when you got out, since, as quoted from the Washington Times reference from my last post, "In all areas of life, from gaining employment, to being satisfied with their home-schooling, to participating in community activities, to voting, home-schoolers were more active and involved than their public school counterparts." Emotionally, the public school system is not the right choice: 73% of homeschoolers were found to consider life exciting, while only 47.3% of the general US population found life to be such.[1] But even if public schooling were emotionally better, emotion is not the subject of this debate but academia and sociality.

The fact that you asked, "Is the higher grade worth it?" seems to admit that the proposition has been shown to be false. If not, then maybe in three minutes' time you were just speaking in conclusion that if I'm right, the public school is still on emotion's side. Assuming you agree that homeschooling is academically and socially superior to public schooling, the proposition is shown to be false.

Well, considering that I've given a number of statistics showing 1) that homeschooling is academically superior, 2) that homeschooling is socially superior, and now 3) that homeschooling is emotionally superior (though this point is unrelated, as far as I can see, to the proposition at hand), I don't see anything else for me to say other than my conclusion. Homeschooling, as far as statistics can reveal, is a great method of schooling; those who are homeschooled enjoy great grades, outgoingness, and general happiness in life. While it may seem at first thought (in theory) that homeschooling would be academically and socially inferior, it rather is the superior option. Again, I will give Pro the last argument to show my reasoning to be incorrect. I excitefully await your response!

References
[1] http://www.hslda.org...

KingoSchenk

Pro

I would like to start off by thanking you for giving me the opportunity to have another go in the final round.

Home schooling is a productive method of teaching at home; I'll agree with you there. If you look on my profile you can see that I'm actually pro-home schooling. I would like to remind the viewers that I'm debating whether home schooling is the better option or not.

We can patronize what falls under the category of the debate or we can look at the over all image. Emotion does fall under this because it has an effect on the social and academic success of the student.

Here's a situational explanation:
They say that close members of religion are better people. Statistically, more stop to let pedestrians cross the street. Your asked the question, should you join a religion? You refer to these statistics to make your decision. The next thing you know, your going to every Sunday mass afraid that if you stop, your going to hell.

Please refer back to my first post. Those statistics will help you understand not only the reasoning but the unsolved solution these children are getting involved in.

Thank you for this debate.
And if you think every word I just said was absurd, read it again.




Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Kilk1 1 year ago
Kilk1
Okay, looking forward to the debate!
Posted by KingoSchenk 1 year ago
KingoSchenk
I really wanted to debate this topic, I'll be out tonight though.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
Kilk1KingoSchenkTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Sources go to Con on the bases that he was the only one who has used sources to his advantage and the only time Pro did he practically just copied and pasted it for his argument. For arguments I'll also have to give those points to Con. Pro had no clash in the debate what-so-ever and when he did he just said to look back to R1 when he just copied and pasted statistics in the debate. Pro had a handicap in the debate when he couldn't respond in R2 and that had him attempt to respond to way to much, but ALL of it was dropped as he just wanted to go to R1 stats. Due to those drops I have to give the debate to Con and the resolution is negated.
Vote Placed by 1Historygenius 1 year ago
1Historygenius
Kilk1KingoSchenkTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con's argument were heavily decisive compared to Pro's. Part of it was the sources. Statistics like those that Con gave came a long way in backing up arguments. Pro, like Con in many ways, went by assertions, but Pro never gave a good reason or source which proved his case and tried to ignore the statistics Con used even though they were needed. This came in the last round when he simply questioned the need for them. For these reasons, Con gave a more substantial argument.
Vote Placed by 21MolonLabe 1 year ago
21MolonLabe
Kilk1KingoSchenkTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ARGUMENTS: Pro makes quite a few assertions, but fails to back them up, such as: "It's easy to say, Thank you to your parents but it's more difficult when you have to say it to your teaches and other adults." in round one and, "Emotionally, it's not the right choice," in the second round. Whereas Con made assertions, and backed them up with statistics such as: "Emotionally, the public school system is not the right choice: 73% of homeschoolers were found to consider life exciting, while only 47.3% of the general US population found life to be such.[1]" in round three. Thus, Arguments go to Con. SOURCES: Con utilized his sources better than pro in proving his point, and even used one of Pro's sources. Granted, Pro used generally more reliable sources, he only cited them in his first round, which focused on why people choose homeschooling rather than why homeschooling is not superior. Thus sources go to Con.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
Kilk1KingoSchenkTied
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Reasons for voting decision: There's just not a lot of content to Pro's arguments. He makes a lot of assertions with regards to what the public system provides, but fails to support it with any actual statistics. On that level, all I can do is compare assertions, and Pro's clash with Con's, though perhaps he has more reasoning on that level. But I'm not given a substantive reason to ignore the statistics, and Con points to many of those that support his point. I'll prefer the empirical data, since it doesn't come solely from assertion and biased reasoning, and thus I vote Con. On sources, Con just dominates their usage, even managing a clear turn on one of Pro's. One final note (and this has no bearing on the debate), the main argument by Pro just doesn't seem that potent. By his argument, we should subject students to excessive stresses constantly in order to ensure that they can handle them in the long term. That seems more than a little problematic to me.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 1 year ago
Logical-Master
Kilk1KingoSchenkTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: CONDUCT: I feel PRO's R2 effectively stalled the debate just to prevent himself from forfeiting the round. The question he asked didn't really contribute to the overall discussion and forced CON to repeal rules he established in R1 just for there to be some semblance of a debate. Conduct to CON. ARGUMENTS: The basis of CON's arguments are statistics. He concludes that based on statistics, homeschooled students are more likely to be successful academically and in the real world. PRO gives us absolutely no reason to doubt these statistics. Rather, he makes a short last round argument that questions the use of statistics entirely, but nothing I found persuasive. Statistics are great for determining the likelihood of something happening. Arguments go to CON. RELIABLE SOURCES: PRO's own sources advanced CON's case as pointed out in R2. Moreover, PRO's sources didn't really advance any of his arguments. Sources go to CON.