The Instigator
FictionalTruths
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
IncredulousVessel
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The state (government) is more evil than good

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/6/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 586 times Debate No: 29969
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

FictionalTruths

Pro

The first round is for acceptance, definitions, and rules only.

First, I would like to say that Con has recently had the same debate with a different person. Said person has made terrible argument for his case, and I believe I can do a much better job. On to the definitions

Evil- less morally right than morally wrong

Good- less morally wrong than morally right

Government- Any large organization with the power to make and enforce laws within a given territory, that has more power than the people.

I hope to have a great debate. Good luck to you.
IncredulousVessel

Con

I accept and would like you, in round two propose a set method to distinguish how moral or immoral something is.

If you choose not to do this, this incredulous vessell shall intiate attack mode.
Debate Round No. 1
FictionalTruths

Pro

Here's a link to the previous debate that was about the same thing with a different person being pro:
http://debate.org...

You have asked me to establish a set method to determine how moral or immoral something is. While I cannot give you a full blown logic system with no exceptions, here is some criteria:

Morally Wrong: More Loss of life than Protection of Life
Morally Right: More Protection of Life than Loss of Life.
Morally Wrong: More Bodily Harm Inflicted than Prevented
Morally Right: More Bodily Harm Prevented than Inflicted (except when loss of an individuals life is what prevents said individual from bodily harm)
Morally Wrong: More Harm to Society than Benefit
Morally Right: More Benefit to Society than Harm
Morally Wrong: More Rights (property, speech, press, basically all of the Constitutional Rights) violated than necessary, or creating an environment where it is necessary to remove rights when the situation could have been avoided
Morally Right: Protecting these Rights

The rest of the morals will be up for debate. Usually the morals in question will be morally good and morally bad at the same time, given the criteria, although this is not always the case. Let's dive in:

First of all, the state is evil because while people originally agree to a tax, if somebody decides not to pay that tax anymore, or they simply were born into a system which forces them to pay taxes because somebody from 10 generations ago agreed to it, while they do not, the government holds them at gunpoint and locks them in a cage. This sounds like it's for the better of society, but it's really not. Here's why.

If taxes are truly spent on the welfare of society, then why can't a person simply opt out and not receive any benefits? For example, if a parent stop paying property taxes, they are held at gunpoint and locked in a cage. This begs the question, "If the property taxes are spent on school, then why can't the parent simply take their child out of school and homeschool them? After all, it's their money, why can't they educate the kid they want to, without also paying for someone Else's kid's education?" The same goes for social security. If one doesn't want to pay the tax, just don't let the person have Social Security. Seems fair to me. The conclusion to this argument is that the State is evil because it acts as a middle man for people to get things they want by stealing money from those who don't want the same benefits in the first place, therefore taking away the right to property, thus being morally wrong and evil.

Speaking of education, lets talk about schooling. The state is evil because it forces our children to go to school and be molded into a puppet of the state.. In essence, the state forcefully teaches children how and what to think, giving them false versions of history as they see fit, discouraging or even outright banning freedom of expression, does not allow the teachers to teach anything that is not state-approved, and uses violence to get the funds necessary to do so. The state gives the illusion of opting out if this indoctrination system, but only allows you to do so if you are paying property taxes and teaching the state-regulated curriculum. This harms society by dumbing down its children and violates Rights by taking away free-thought and thus free will. This is morally wrong and therefore makes the state evil.

On to my third argument, the wars. Government wages war without the peoples, and now even without Congressional (think Libya http://exposethemedia.com...) consent. This is Morally Wrong and evil because it takes away Lives and inflicts bodily harm on both sides, and since many of these are unprovoked, does not save the lives of anybody. It also violates Rights because it does not give people the ability to decide, thus taking away free will. It harms society because it makes a given country enemies, thus making the potential for more war and more evil to be inflicted on society. Government waging wars without the peoples consent is the most morally wrong and evil thing yet, because it fits all of the basic criteria for Morally Wrong that everyone can agree to.

In conclusion, the state is evil, it is just the Patriotism that makes it seem good. If Britain were to invade the U.S and conquer it and started taxing our cities, although it is very similar to the U.S, we would all agree that Britain was evil. If you look beyond the curtain of Patriotism and National Pride, all governments, even when started with good intentions, always end up evil.

I
IncredulousVessel

Con

IncredulousVessel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
FictionalTruths

Pro

Voters, I am asking you to vote for me with a 7-point victory because IncredulousVessel closed his account. I am upset about this because IncredulousVessel seemed to be a very good debater, but now I ask that I get the victory that I deserve, since the other guy didn't even post an argument.
IncredulousVessel

Con

IncredulousVessel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
FictionalTruths

Pro

FictionalTruths forfeited this round.
IncredulousVessel

Con

IncredulousVessel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
FictionalTruths

Pro

FictionalTruths forfeited this round.
IncredulousVessel

Con

IncredulousVessel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by FictionalTruths 4 years ago
FictionalTruths
Voters vote for me because the other guy closed his account :(
No votes have been placed for this debate.