The Instigator
girg
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
yboy403
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The superior weapons in a zombie apocalypse.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
girg
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/29/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,379 times Debate No: 24500
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (2)

 

girg

Pro


Okay so this is a fun debate, obviously, on the superior weapons in a zombie apocalypse. First round is for acceptance and only stating what weapons you will be arguing for. Second round is for stating your arguments on why said weapons are superior, third is for a rebuttal of opponents arguments in round 2, and four is for conclusions.
The types of weapons you must argue for:
Any two mêlée weapons
and one projectile.
You must argue not just the effectiveness of killing zombies and protecting yourself, but the actual usefulness of them on the field.
The weapons I will argue for:
Mêlée :
A WW1 trench knife
A crowbar
Projectile:
Crossbow
yboy403

Con

The weapons I will argue for are as follows.

Melee:
Katana
Baseball bat

Projectile:
M4A1

Looking forward to your response.
Debate Round No. 1
girg

Pro

Alright. Might I also add that skill would be irrelevant for both of our people carrying said weapons. Mine would be skilled with a crossbow while yours would be skilled with a gun, etc. Same with all weapons.
Anyways, here are my arguments
Mêlée :
WW1 trench knife
The trench knife, also known as a trench spike, was a weapon used by soldiers fighting in trenches in ww1, just to state the obvious. It is a combination of brass knuckles as a handle, and either a spike or a knife attached. They were designed to stab through the helmets of other soldiers. If they were in fact that effective against soldiers helmets, one could imagine what it could do to a zombie. A regular zombie must be killed by destroying the brain, this would be the best tool for penetrating the skull at close range.
Crowbar
The crowbar, also know as a prybar, is a tool with a curved edge and flattened points and notches at the end usually for removing nails. This weapon is effective not just for killing zombies but also for prying open doors, removing nails, breaking windows, etc. The crowbar would give you more space than the trench spike, allowing the most amount of room between you and the attacking creature. The curved end and the straight end are essentially spikes, and the length of the crowbar would give you a good amount of force into the zombies head.
Projectile :
Crossbow
The crossbow is a very powerful weapons that has been in use for centuries. modern ones today are significantly more accurate and come with additions like scopes. Two of the best things about this is that it is silent and you have the ability to make your own arrows, in essence, not having to worry about running out of ammunition. Zombies are attracted to noise, if you honk a car horn, they are drawn by the sound. Crossbows are silent and you would not have to worry about a hoard following you after you shot down a few.


yboy403

Con

First, a note: even though one could argue for zombies that have to be dismembered to kill them, as opposed to destroying the brain, I'll accept Pro's "zombie kill" criteria for this debate.

So, my weapons of choice.
Katana:
A katana is a sword used by Japanese Samurai warriors. They are about two feet long, and ridiculously sharp. Crafted by master smiths, they can cut through a mushroom sitting on a surface without knocking it off. Perfect for removing zombie limbs or heads, and silent as well. Even though they are two feet long, when used effectively they can be slung at the side or over the back, out of the way of motion or other weapons.

Baseball bat:
A baseball bat is a perfect club. Good quality bats are strong and light, and are great for knocking back zombies and possibly clearing a path through a zombie horde in an emergency. Never need sharpening, never run out of ammunition...what more is there to say?

M4A1:
The M4 carbine is an all-around great weapon, effective to about 600 yards. A skilled marksman could hide in a building and take out approaching zombies - or survivors - from a safe distance, and because the A1 version, which is the standard weapon of all US special forces, has fully automatic fire, so it can be used to spray crowds of zombies to escape an ambush. It's fairly reliable as well, and I'm using your conditions to assume that I'm skilled enough at weapon repair to fix the occasional jam - less than 1% in 60,000 rounds.
Debate Round No. 2
girg

Pro

*On Cons note on killing zombies, I do realize now that there are multiple ways to kill a zombie, sorry for not clearing that up, we will argue with the destruction of the brain as the main way of killing the zombie as con has consented to.
Rebuttal
Katana
The katana would only be fully effective at medium range. Assuming that in order to kill a zombie, some sort of head/brain wound would have to be inflicted. For example lets just say that a zombie somehow was able to grab you, get on top of you, or approach to about 2 feet from you. The katana would be very hard to manage at that range. A short weapon like a dagger or a trench spike would be the superior weapon at that moment.
Baseball bat
I am not sure if you are implying a wooden bat or an aluminum bat, as wooden bats have a chance of breaking, especially when hitting a skull often. The baseball bat would also only really serve one purpose in an apocalyptic situation. Where as a crowbar would have a good number of uses across the field.
M4A1
One of the biggest problems is that it is loud. Zombies are attracted to noise, and by using a gun, you are drawing more zombies or other attackers to your position. There is also the concern of ammunition. I would expect a gunman to carry a sufficient amount of ammo to last a few days or weeks, but what happens after that? What will happen if there is water damage or sand gets in there?
yboy403

Con


Rebuttal:

Trench Spike

A trench spike was made for close-quarters fighting in trenches. If you're surrounded by a crowd of zombies - and I'm assuming we're talking swarms - let's say you manage to stab one in its head, effectively destroying its brain. Now what?You've got your weapon stuck in a zombie's head, and there are more around you. The inefficiency of having to forcefully yank your weapon free after each strike is going to get you killed. Also, the blade of a trench knife is maybe six inches long. Why are you getting to within six inches of the thing trying to eat your brains?

Crowbar
A crowbar is a useful tool, and definitely a good thing to have in an emergency situation. But unless I misunderstand the meaning of "superior weapons", it's hardly the best weapon to carry with you. Half-Life aside, it wasn't designed for fighting, and it's a slow and cumbersome weapon. Like the trench spike, it might be fine for dealing with one zombie, or even a few, but in a crowd you'd tire quickly and fight less effectively. And then die.

Crossbow
If I had to make a list of the weapons I wouldn't want to have with me, this would probably be on it. Crossbows are useful for one thing: taking out individual enemies silently at medium range. At long range, you'd probably miss, and at close range you'd be overwhelmed while reloading. Again, most zombie-apocalypse scenarios involve hordes of roaming zombies, and you said yourself that there are great numbers of them. How exactly is it useful to pick off individual zombies?

I'm not sure if this is my place to rebut your arguments, so I'll follow your example and save my defense for the conclusion.
Debate Round No. 3
girg

Pro

Yes the defense is for the conclusion. Just do not introduce any new arguments.
Defense and conclusion:

Trench Spike
If I am in close quarters, it would be more effective, and if not at least that, just as effective as a Katana. There would have to be a brief moment of dislodging(although fast, the spike isn't that thick), but even with a Katana, you still couldn't kill lets say, 10 zombies all at once. You would have to attack them as individuals. Lets just go with the argument that you would have to crush the skull of the zombie, a katana would still need to be dislodged from the zombies head. If we said that they could be decapitated like con stated earlier, you would have to take one swing, then another, and so on. Con states that I would have to get within approximately six inches to the zombie in order to kill it, however, I do have limbs called "arms" that give me approximately 2.5 - 3 feet away from the zombie, plus the extra length of the spike, whether it be six inches or more.
Crowbar
Con actually admits:
"A crowbar is a useful tool, and definitely a good thing to have in an emergency situation."
This proves the original criteria of the debate as the superior weapon would have purpose outside of killing zombies. The shape is better than a baseball bat, as it is spiked/has an edge, better for penetration of the skull. Plus if I am fighting a horde, the logical thing to do would be to run. Even if you had a crowbar or a baseball bat, you couldn't kill lets say 50 zombies at one battle.
Crossbow
Con states: " taking out individual enemies silently at medium range. At long range, you'd probably miss, and at close range you'd be overwhelmed while reloading."
Con admits it is silent, and good for range. At long range however, they would be quite effective. I am not sure what Cons idea of "long range" is, but standard crossbows are usually accurate to 40 yards, sometimes 50 yards. I would say that's a good distance. At short distance, I could shoot one, then take out my handy dany crowbar or spike.


Con has yet to argue against the noise caused by the gun, as that would be a zombie magnet, placing him more in danger, while my character would be silent with all weapons. The crowbar has multiple uses through the field, while Con has failed to show that any of his weapons are useful beyond killing zombies, one of the criteria I had posted in round one.

I would like to thank Con for accepting this debate. This has been a rather fun one, different from the repeating gay marriage, abortion, and drug debates.

Vote Pro!
yboy403

Con

My defense and conclusion:

Katana
It seems reasonable to assume that zombies, being partially decayed, would have a weaker bone structure than living humans. As such, a single swing with a sharp katana could reasonably decapitate a zombie. Unlike a trench spike, where even the cleanest kill needs a pause afterwards, a skilled swordfighter could string together a series of slashes to kill many zombies efficiently. As for Pro's argument that his arms put three feet of room between him and a zombie, that only applies if you're walking with your arms out straight. Personally, I leave that to the zombies.

Baseball bat
I was in fact talking about aluminum bats, just to get that clear. It would make a good club, and as you pointed out, make up for the manageability issues of a katana at less than a foot or so (although I think two feet away should be fine). Although a crowbar is more conventional tool than a baseball bat, two of the three things you mention in its favour (breaking windows, prying open doors) can be accomplished either by a baseball bat or a machine gun. And prying out nails is irrelevant unless you're trying to build something, in which case even a crowbar won't help you.

You say that "if I am fighting a horde, the logical thing to do would be to run", and imply that this excuses the crowbar for being a generally inefficient weapon. The fact that you can possibly avoid combat entirely is irrelevant to the question, which is about the crowbar's effectiveness as a weapon. And like I said, if you tried fighting with it, you'd get tired and die.

Machine gun
This is definitely a last-resort weapon. Its power is offset by the noise it makes - though I would choose a model with a suppressor - and I would only use it if I was in imminent danger. Unlike Pro, my plan in a zombie apocalypse is not to wander the countryside sniping zombies with a crossbow. My plan is to hide and survive as long as I can.

The ammunition isn't an issue. I live in a large city, and when I chose this as a weapon I assumed I would be able to find a gun shop or police station with ammunition in it. If that isn't a valid option, I'll turn the question around: where are you planning to find crossbow bolts?

Summary
I have effectively addressed the noise issue, by pointing out that my plan is to avoid firing if possible, and to instead keep the gun as a powerful last resort. If I'm firing it, chances are the zombies have already noticed me.

The "effectiveness in the field" criterion seems to have been thrown in to add some weight to Pro's side, because a crowbar is a marginally useful tool. On closer examination, though, he can only name three uses for it, all three of which are variations on "break something". Baseball bats are plenty good at breaking things too, and I've never seen a door that can be pried open but not smashed open. Pro must face facts and admit that weapons are one thing, and tools another; anybody with a hope of surviving a zombie apocalypse would have a separate toolbox anyways.

Pro came up with a creative and enjoyable debate topic, and I'd like to thank him for a good time.

Vote Con!

Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by yboy403 4 years ago
yboy403
Actually, a katana is one of the swords traditionally carried by Samurai.
Posted by MikeyMike 4 years ago
MikeyMike
Samurai Sword>Katana
Posted by yboy403 4 years ago
yboy403
You definitely need skill to use a katana properly, but for this debate we're assuming skill with each weapon.
Posted by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
Regular impact with another blade would absolutely destroy a katana, especially to the extent that it could be used as a decapitating weapon. They aren't designed for defensive maneuvers as we usually imagine sword combat, but rather to be drawn and make a killing blow in a single motion. The maintenance required to keep a killing edge during even such limited use is extensive and requires specialized products. During a frantic battle, an amateur user will almost certainly strike walls, objects, and bone clusters that will quickly render the sword useless.
Posted by yboy403 4 years ago
yboy403
@maikuru - I don't think "a few misses" with a katana will dull the blade. They're ancient weapons made by master smiths, and were used in battle for centuries. If the can handle regular impact with another blade, zombie flesh shouldn't be a problem.
Posted by caveat 4 years ago
caveat
The crossbow is pretty bad. It's range is medium at best and is heavily affected by environment (mostly wind). A semi-automatic pistol with a silencer does everything a crossbow does, ten times better. Reloading is less frequent and easier. Just as silent. Projectile is faster and fired more frequently. Used easily with one arm. Lightweight in comparison. Smaller. Has potential as a close-range/melee weapon if you get jumped, while a crossbow is literally dead weight. More accurate at all ranges.
Posted by ComputerEmil 4 years ago
ComputerEmil
Indeed MikeyMike

Melee weapon for 2 Meter Dude in my opinion - A Long spear with a long two-sided blade.
Melee weapon for regular people in my opinion - Wip & Katana. Wip to keep inpeneprable distance & Katana for Fun.

And don't forget the hummer-.-
Posted by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
Excellent debate. Pro didn't mention this and it wasn't a factor in my vote, but a few misses with the katana will likely dull the blade and leave it useless as a decapitating weapon. Trying to resharpen a blade on the run is no easy task.
Posted by MikeyMike 4 years ago
MikeyMike
Ultimate survival tool in zombie apocalypse: Bear Grylls
Posted by girg 4 years ago
girg
@Maikuru - indeed I have. Two seasons of the walking dead also helps.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Doulos1202 4 years ago
Doulos1202
girgyboy403Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: As much as I hate the idea of a crossbow I am afraid it had more benefits which outweighed the downsides to carrying around a katana. Those two weapons are really what my vote came down to. given the length of a katana you run the risk of damaging it due to poor panic driven swings. I am going to go ahead and assume just because zombies are roaming the earth it wouldnt follow that everyone is all of a sudden proficient with the katana
Vote Placed by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
girgyboy403Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's crowbar can deliver kills at some distance while the spike defeats enemies that are directly on top of the survivor. Con's choices, on the other hand, both require swinging room and speed for effective use. Pro's projectile is also superior, as bolts are reusable and even sporadic gun use is asking for trouble. The fact that all of Pro's weapons are silent (even when for survival purposes outside of combat) is the greatest advantage. Arguments to Pro.