The Instigator
tBoonePickens
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mirza
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points

The term "allah" was also used by the pre-islamic pagans to refer to their moon god.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Mirza
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/22/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,437 times Debate No: 13444
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (27)
Votes (4)

 

tBoonePickens

Pro

Muslims claim that Allah is a generic term that just means God in Arabic. They claim that Allah was ALWAYS the biblical God and that Islam just continued and perfected Judaism & Christianity with the same God. This claim of continuity is profoundly important in their attempts to convert people and to legitimize their faith. Many Muslims cite that Christian Arabs call God Allah, so this is proof that Allah is a title or word, NOT a name. They claim this was always what they called Allah and even try to claim that Allah is mentioned in the Bible.

In the ancient Middle East, people were predominantly pagans; they worshiped a moon god, among many others. The word for god in Arabic is "ilah." Archaeologists have unearthed many temples to the moon god, as this was the most widespread religion in that part of the world. The crescent moon was the symbol of this moon god. This same symbol is still used today.

The moon god had many names, the most prominent of which was "Sin." Remnants describing this god have been found throughout Mesopotamia (Sumeria, etc.) The Assyrians, Babylonians, and Akkadians also worshiped Sin. Sin married the sun goddess and had daughters and sacrifices were constantly made to them.

The title of the highest god, the moon god, was "Al-ilah" or "Allah." Pagan Arabs even used the name in their children's names, ex. Abdullah. Mohammad's father's name was Abdullah or "slave of Allah." Clearly, Allah was the name of a pagan god long BEFORE Islam was established.

The most popular deity in Mohammad's birthplace, Mecca, was Hubal. This is a variation of the sun god "Baal" who is referenced in the Bible and detested as a pagan deity. Baal is also known as "Beelzebub" or "Satan," a coincidence worth noting. Hubal, the Meccan moon god, was the MAIN god among 360 others. The Qur'an does not mention Hubal but speaks of 3 daughters attributed to Allah: Al-Lat (the feminine version of Allah,) Al-Uzza, and Manat. The moon god of the Arab world was always known to have daughters, but the Qur'an chastises the pagan Arabs for attributing daughters to Allah specifically. Since the Qur'an claims that the pagans credited Allah with 3 daughters, Allah had to have been a specific god and could not have just meant "The God." Ergo, Hubal and Allah WERE one and same god.

The Qur'an NEVER warns against worshiping Hubal, so why did Mohammad stop short of warning the new Muslims of worshiping Hubal, who was their greatest pagan god? Because he needed the pagans to follow him in his new religion: Islam.
Mirza

Con

This is egregious. I looked forward to debating my opponent and eventually realized that his entire argument is copy-pasted. What a shame. What a horrible shame. In fact, I realized that in another thread (source #1), he also copy-pasted his arguments about this issue. Where did he do that from? See source #2. What kind of a debate is this? Does he want me to reply to plagiarism? Is this what he challenged me to and made a limit of 4,000 words? This is monstrous. He has lost all conduct, references, and argumentation credits whatsoever. Nevertheless, I will address his arguments even though I have about 3,200 characters left only.

1. Rebuttals

1.1 Allah in the Bible

The Arabic word "Allah" means "God." Any scripture that contains the word "God" will have the word "Allah" once translated to Arabic. This is a fact. The Bible begins with no other word assigned to God but "Allah" when we read it in Arabic:

[Genesis 1:1] "Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-ard"

Allah = God. The Bible says, "In the beginning, Allah created the heavens and the earth." Allah merely means God in Arabic. There is no denial of this. My opponent neither recites the Qur'an in Arabic, nor does he pray in Arabic, nor does he do anything with Arabic, so his claim that Allah is not mentioned in the Bible is false. "Allah" is mentioned in tons of verses-

1.2 Symbol of moon god

I agree, ilah means god. If the symbol of the crescent moon is still used today, I have no objection to the argument of my opponent either. I will move on.

1.3 Title of moon god

My opponent (or the source he plagiarized from) claimed that the moon god had the title "Al-ilah" or "Allah." This is as false as saying that a Kung Fu learner calls his trainer "God" when he says "yes master." This is claimed by people who have no understanding of even the most basic Arabic grammar and vocabulary. The Arabic word "al" means "the" and "ilah" means "god." Therefore, al-ilah means "the god." There is nothing to suggest otherwise. The word "Allah," however, does not mean "the god." This is absurd. The word "Allah" means "God" with a capital G. It refers to the ultimate Creator, the highest of all beings. Al-ilah,meaning "the god," has nothing to do with Allah, except in similarity of the wording. It is like saying that "pick" is the same as "sick" because those two are similar. Or "bill" is equal to "ill."

1.4 Daughters attributed to Allah?

"The Qur'an does not mention Hubal but speaks of 3 daughters attributed to Allah..."

This is another great lie. I challenge my opponent to find one single passage in the Qur'an where God mentions any of His daughter. He has no sons nor daughters. This is absurd.

1.5 Hubal

My opponent's last plagiarized piece of absurdity claims that the Qur'an never warns against worshiping Hubal. Firstly, see source #3. There are great refutations. Secondly, the Qur'an warns against worshiping anything or anyone other than God Himself. The entire chapter all "Al Ikhlas" meaning The Fidelity (hereby monotheism) makes it clear that there is no god but God, and He is One.

[Qur'an 42:21] "What! have they partners (in godhead), who have established for them some religion without the permission of Allah? Had it not been for the Decree of Judgment, the matter would have been decided between them (at once). But verily the Wrong-doers will have a grievous Penalty."

In brief, my opponent challenged me to this debate after refusing to accept my own challenge, and then plagiarized his arguments. He also did it in the forums.

-- References --

[1] http://www.debate.org...
[2] http://islamicide.com...
[3] http://www.islamic-awareness.org...
Debate Round No. 1
tBoonePickens

Pro

tBoonePickens forfeited this round.
Mirza

Con

Plagiarism evolved into... Forfeit!
Debate Round No. 2
tBoonePickens

Pro

tBoonePickens forfeited this round.
Mirza

Con

My case has been made.
Debate Round No. 3
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Zetsubou 6 years ago
Zetsubou
PM sent.
Posted by Mirza 6 years ago
Mirza
Zetsu,

The Classical Arabic is the most eloquent of any Arabic forms. Use that as an example only. Moreover, Allah =/= god.

Allah = God
Posted by Zetsubou 6 years ago
Zetsubou
I never claimed to be better than you.

I just said you were wrong, which you are:
" Allah literally has 99 meanings, which are known as "The 99 Beautiful Names of Allah"

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Allah means God. Allah-<inserttermhere> means God-whatever. I can reference the Arabic qur'an if you need me to.

I've moved this to a PM, so stop commenting.
Posted by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
I didn't claim that the dictionary definition means 99 things; it has, as a name, 99 attributes. Allah is the embodiment of all the attributes that we describe, which is why he means those attributes.

PS You clearly weren't very good with Arabic. I've been speaking it for 15 years, so nice try on your part to appear knowledgeable there ;)
Posted by Zetsubou 6 years ago
Zetsubou
You claimed Allah ALONE meant 99 things.

It was wrong.

PS. Nice try, I used to speak Arabic, it was my first/second language, don't mistake me for a westerner.
Posted by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
No, you're getting wrong. They all begin with "the", to make it a unique title. Suffixes come at the end of the word.
Posted by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
What does that last comment prove at all?
Posted by Zetsubou 6 years ago
Zetsubou
m93samman, I ham familiar will the 99 names of Allah however,

Each form has a suffix.
eg. Allah-Ali (God most high)

Allah means god, nothing more.
Posted by Zetsubou 6 years ago
Zetsubou
m93samman, I ham familiar will the 99 names of Allah however,

Each form has a suffix.
eg. Allah-Ali (God most high)

Allah means god, nothing more.
Posted by Zetsubou 6 years ago
Zetsubou
Mirza, I'll use Arabic as an example. Today there are many dialects of Arabic, as there are dialects there are variant words. My mother can speak a mix of Juba Arabic and Egyptian Arabic, in regards to Syriac or Semitic Arabic we stress nouns stronger and make stronger diphthongs that appear to use Barber or African volels. This can be reflected in the way the Arabic is written(second link).

See this: http://www.cnbc.cmu.edu... It's on Hebrew(Aramaic) Morphemes.
http://en.wikipedia.org...(linguistics) There's a part on Arabic.
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Vote Placed by InsertNameHere 6 years ago
InsertNameHere
tBoonePickensMirzaTied
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Vote Placed by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
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