The Instigator
ameyav
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
weizhong
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition by Sagan:is true

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,549 times Debate No: 32340
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

ameyav

Pro

The contender should explain and prove that this qoute is not true

1st round is for acceptance :)

I'm hoping for a great debate.
weizhong

Con

I will debate the con side for this argument that "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition by Sagan:istrue."

This should be an interesting debate.
Debate Round No. 1
ameyav

Pro

We've been discovering things,just to satisfy our curiosity and our hope that there's a better life waiting for us just by discovering things and passing them by.

The universe is our center for now,We're discovering and discovering and discovering and discovering things,hoping we could pass it by.
How can you prove that universe should be required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition?
weizhong

Con

As humans who live in this universe, we are constantly shaped by the universe, since it constantly defines our perspective on the world, and our resultant actions.

Because of this, we operate within the laws of this universe. As such, our ambitions must also necessarily be limited by what these laws. For example, the laws of the universe state that it is impossible for us to swim to deepest depths of the ocean unassisted, and because we as intelligent creatures recognize this, we change our ambitions. What child has not seen the fantasy realms of Star Wars, and wished that they could be like Luke Skywalker, flying in a starfighter across the stars, and traveling from planet to planet like we travel on road trips? However, physics has proven that such travel is unrealistic, and defies the laws of the universe. Scientists understand this, and those former kids temper their ambition by seeking for other goals that fall within the constraints of the universe.

Thus, our ambitions are necessarily grounded within the universe, and are in harmony with it, simply because we are controlled by the universe.
Debate Round No. 2
ameyav

Pro

Well you may seem to have a point :D

My opponent is wrong
I will prove it later,I will just present my case. :D

*My case*

*People have innate abilities that can destroy humanity,these are some

1)Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.
2)Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.
3)Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
4)Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
5)Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.
6)Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.
7)Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

~Through these innate abilities we can say that we can surpass god if we want because there will be a time that we will want to acquire having ambitions to the utmost,especially the ambition of surpassing God.If only our universe is in perfect harmony for us to do that,but it is not.

****Ok now i will defend myself from Mr.weizhong reply at round 2***

#You said:as humans who live in this universe, we are constantly shaped by the universe, since it constantly defines our perspective on the world, and our resultant actions.Because of this, we operate within the laws of this universe. As such, our ambitions must also necessarily be limited by what these laws.

*I agree with your first sentence but the 2nd sentence is wrong.

~The truth is,mostly,people really want to acquire things that these universe restrain for,you can prove it by looking upon yourself.Even if the universe shapes us and defines our perspective just like what you've said.Our ambitions are not molded because of this"law of universe",we are the ones who are molding our own ambitions,may it be outside the law our inside the law of universe.

#You said:our ambitions are necessarily grounded within the universe, and are in harmony with it, simply because we are controlled by the universe.

*Your sentence is wholly wrong

~Like I said universe doesn't mold our ambitions,we are the one who molds it.Just like if you want to know the meaning of life,you won't discover it because the meaning of life depends upon one self because the meaning of it is molded.A proof to this is that there are people who believe life is great,life is not great,life is horrible.It is because that's the way they molded it

#This is all of what you said extruding the example.As humans who live in this universe, we are constantly shaped by the universe, since it constantly defines our perspective on the world, and our resultant actions.
Because of this, we operate within the laws of this universe. As such, our ambitions must also necessarily be limited by what these laws.Thus, our ambitions are necessarily grounded within the universe, and are in harmony with it, simply because we are controlled by the universe.

*I proved you wrong that ambitions are not molded by universe.Instead,we are the ones who are molding our ambitions,may it be outside the rule of universe or inside of it.It proves that what you've said is non-specific. :)

It's now your turn Mr.weizhong,I hope you mean what I said :)
weizhong

Con

I think that regardless of whether or not you believe in the existence of God, a god, or gods, human ambition is INDIRECTLY shaped by the universe.

If you believe in the Abrahamic god, then your ambitions will be stopped by God. For example, in the Bible, humans tried to build the Tower of Babel to defy God, or in essence, the universe itself. God stopped them by creating languages. The Seven Deadly Sins have no part here, because although they could be human ambitions, they are not exceeding the limits of the universe, or God.

If you don't believe in God, then trying to defy the laws of the universe are equally impossible. The "universal speed limit" is the speed of light. Surpassing it is impossible, as anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of physics is aware of, due to energy limits that become nigh-on infinite. We can't surpass the universe's laws, so we change ourselves to follow them.

This is what I meant by saying that the universe molds our ambitions. It molds them indirectly, because we are forced to change our ambitions to follow it. The universe has set many definite laws that are impossible to break. That's the point of laws. They're made to be followed, and in the realm of science, laws of the universe cannot be broken, regardless of human ambition. Defying gravity by yourself is impossible, because the universe states that it is not.

In addition, I think you're straying off topic a bit by defining who our ambitions are set by. We directly set our ambitions, but the universe plays a heavy hand in setting boundaries for us. Although the universe isn't stepping down and saying "Hey, don't do that," it has an indirect part.

For example, consider if you've ever seriously thought of flying through space like a superhero, or picking up cars with your bare hands. I don't mean idle daydreaming, but actual serious consideration. Probably not, because even without consciously focusing on it, we are aware that certain things are impossible, and dreaming about them is unrealistic. The universe has such a strong hand here that we don't even consider setting our ambitions higher.

Human ambition simply cannot be out of line with the universe simply because it is impossible to do so. We dismiss these things, such as swimming to the bottom of the sea, or flying, out of hand, because we know that they are impossible, and adjust our ambitions accordingly.
Debate Round No. 3
ameyav

Pro

My opponent still don't understand :)

Ambitions are infinite,you can prove it through yourself.

You've pointed out too "the seven deadly sin"

the seven deadly sins that I've pointed fits to any religion,If I based it upon religion I will defend it;You can tell that it is inherent by proving it to yourself.

So there's no reason to explain further by providing such holy religions.

*The reason that I've posted seven deadly sins is because through that innate ability of ours;If we are not molded by the society and religions we could enhance that abilities and almost destroy the world just by providing such ambitions.

*By providing such evidence in the field of science is futile.

*You said:In addition, I think you're straying off topic a bit by defining who our ambitions are set by. We directly set our ambitions, but the universe plays a heavy hand in setting boundaries for us. Although the universe isn't stepping down and saying "Hey, don't do that," it has an indirect part.
~ what?

Your case is that universe is the one that molds ambitions.That is why I pointed it out.don't you still get it? :)

*I don't have to post anything related to sources to clarify that you are wrong since your case is neglected just by carefully understanding what I've posted earlier in other rounds. :)

I will just give one phrase for the voters to understand clearly:
"Everything can hold us firmly;Laws,advices,and all things around us.People can give us advices but the final forming is up to us,whether we accept it or not.Laws can handle us(ex. is law of universe);We can't break it,but we can break ourselves upon it.

*My opponent didn't understand what he is saying;Perhaps,You should study first recently before opening a debate with me.

*I don't have to post anything related to sources to clarify that you are wrong since my opponents case is neglected just by carefully understanding what I've posted earlier in other rounds.

I will just give one phrase for the voters to understand clearly:
"Everything can hold us firmly;Laws,advices,and all things around us.People can give us advices but the final forming is up to us,whether we accept it or not.Laws can handle us(ex. is law of universe);We can't break it,but we can break ourselves upon it.

Again thank you for this debate Mr.weizhong :D

please vote for Pro. :)

sources:
http://www.deadlysins.com...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
weizhong

Con

I'd just like to point out that the Pro side actually hasn't pointed out any flaws in that last round, and is defaulting to trying to say that I don't understand what I'm talking about, and suggesting that I "study first," which is both highly unprofessional and uncalled for.

Furthermore, my case is not that the universe directly molds our ambitions, which my opponent has repeatedly pointed out. My case is that the universe indirectly causes us to change our ambitions, because our ambitions are limited by the universe's laws.

I recognize that human ambition is wide and often stretches widely. However, at the end of the day, it still can't exceed the universe's laws. Our ambition is nearly unstoppable, but the universe's laws do not give way. Despite our best efforts, changing the universe's laws is not possible. We can't simply decide that more mass equals less gravity, even if everyone in the world was trying to believe in that. We can't breathe underwater like fish, because we don't have gills and the same circulatory system. Thus, regardless of what we may want as humans, our ambition will ultimately always be in harmony with the universe, simply because we constantly operate by its laws.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by ameyav 4 years ago
ameyav
resource for round 1:http://www.deadlysins.com...
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