The Instigator
mackoman_93
Pro (for)
Winning
20 Points
The Contender
Clockwork
Con (against)
Losing
19 Points

The use of "A.D." verses the use of "C.E."

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
mackoman_93
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/13/2010 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,256 times Debate No: 11731
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (6)

 

mackoman_93

Pro

I am in support of the use of A.D. as a historical reference, as opposed to more recent acceptance of C.E. I look forwad to evaluating my opponent's position.
Clockwork

Con

I thank my opponent for providing this topic.

For those who may not know or for those who wish to reacquaint themselves, the terminology in conflict are the BC/AD calendar notation and the BCE/CE notation.

B.C. and A.D. respectively stand for Before Christ and the Latin Anno Domini or "Year of Our Lord". Both serve as direct references to the birth of Jesus of Nazareth and are thus base in Christian doctrine.

Thus, scholars and historians have recently begun to use (B.)C.E. to annotate years. Arguments in favor of "Common Era" notation usually either criticize Christianity as a historical source and try to secularize the notation, or otherwise claim that the reference to Christianity is an issue of Western dominance and try to expand the concept to an idea that is more readily accepted to those who aren't so familiar with Western theology. My opponent will no doubt oppose these views, and I will negate them as necessary.

However, there is also a major advantage to using CE notation even under the pretense of Christian theology.

The earliest known use of the AD calendar dates to Victor of Tunnena, who ruled during the 6th century C.E. (or A.D.). in order to devote the calendar to Christ, Victor determined when Jesus was born using a chronology of the Roman Empire. However, this chronology has thus been proven inaccurate.

We know that, according to the Bible, shortly after Jesus was born, King Herod the Great ordered all Jewish males under the age of two to be slaughtered in an attempt to eliminate the supposed Messiah. However, historical records tell us that Herod died in the year 4 B.C. Thus, even those wishing to devote the calendar to Christ do so using a misleading and inaccurate method.

The resolution is negated not only because it is overtly religious and unnecessarily Western, but because of a historical miscalculation. It turns out that A.D. 1 was actually at least four years after "The year of Our Lord". C.E. notation has the advantages of cultural acceptance and would not threaten to mislead those who believe to know the time of Christ's birth.

I await my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 1
mackoman_93

Pro

My opponent seems to suggest that accuracy is the standard for which you ought to vote. He establishes this position "chronology has thus been proven inaccurate". However, if accuracy is the standard for which my opponent suggests that you should vote on, then I submit to you the arrangement that this is what undoes my opponent's position. He talks about a four year inaccuracy. However, how long is the time window between when the term C.E. applies and when things were considered "common"? Consider: year 1 C.E. Even by year 1001 C.E. (1,000 YEARS AFTER THE "COMMON ERA" HAD BEGUN) measurements had not been standardized.

In other words, 1,000 years AFTER history SAYS that the common era began the common era had NOT in fact began. 1,000 years AFTER we say the common ear began, the common era had NOT actually began.

All for the sake of political correctness.

My opponent has been thwarted by his own standard. In this light I urge a vote in affirmation of the resolution. Thank you.
Clockwork

Con

My opponent posits a strange argument stating that the common era did not begin in the year 1 C.E.. The Affirmative fails to realize that the beginning of the C.E. notation is arbitrary and set by historians so that it is easy to transition between a Gregorian A.D. notation system to the Common Era system. The notation "common ea" does not imply a standardization of measurement: in fact, the first use of C.E. notation was by the monk Dionysius Exiguus in the year 525 in order to replace the Diocletian years. (Diocletian was, of course, infamous for persecuting early Christians.)

If my opponent wishes to prove that the Common Era did not begin in 1. C.E., he will have to post something more substantive than his own opinion.

However, even if we assume that the C.E. notation is inaccurate, you as a judge still must vote in opposition of the resolution. Why? Because the resolution posits that the A.D. notation is SUPERIOR to the C.E. notation. If we are to believe my opponent's unfounded claims, then both are inaccurate and thus inadequate; that is, undr my opponent's reasoning neither is preferable. My opponent has yet to put forth one argument to support the resolution, and still must prove that A.D. notation is superior.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
mackoman_93

Pro

My opponent's argument is, in essence, C.E. does not imply standardization. In other words, the notation COMMON ERA does not imply commonality. If COMMON era does not imply COMMONALITY, then what does it imply?

I made the argument that "common" implied standardization (as this is the only TRUE commonality that is globally recognized in BOTH a SECULAR and NON-SECULAR context). Furthermore, historians use the notation Common Era BEFORE this standardization and commonality existed. Thus, although recognized by scholars that are overly concerned with being politically correct the common era (as it implies) had not actually began. My opponent misunderstands my argument (I'm not arguing with what the text books say, I am arguing with whether or not the era in question was in fact common). The only evidence my opponent can produce to support his position is what the texts books say (and apparently wikipedia :P), not whether the terminology is actually accurate (which is what I'm questioning).

Basically, historians today try to slap a politically correct label on the year (I accept this to be true). My argument is against whether or not this label is actually an appropriate representation of the time period that it notates. A.D. is an appropriate representation because it does not carry a mis-representation of what time period it is actually talking about.

Furthermore, the only substantiation that my opponent provides is http://en.wikipedia.org... . While he has held his ground in this debate he has: mis-understood my arguments, failed to attack them properly, failed to uphold or defend his own standard of accuracy and failed to substantiate his claims with legitimate sources. Thus, my opponent has no position left to stand on and you are left with one option. Vote PRO.

Thank you
Clockwork

Con

My opponent misunderstands both my position and his own in today's debate, and this is the ultimate reason why you must vote in opposition of the resolution in this debate.

The foremost reason why you must negate the resolution is because the Affirmative has failed to uphold his burden of proving the resolution to be true. The only claim that he has made in support of the resolution was that "A.D. is an appropriate representation because it does not carry a mis-representation of what time period it is actually talking about." However, I addressed this issue in the very first round, by stating that there is no way that Jesus of Nazareth could have been born before 4 BC. This is a common misunderstanding about exactly when Christ was born. This point has one unaddressed by my opponent.

The affirmative has made the claim that the "common" in Common Era implies standardization of measurement. I countered that there was no such implication and challenged my opponent to provide any sort of logic or evidence suggesting such a correlation. I was met with silence.

Finally, the Affirmative has failed to address the issues of political correctness as raised by myself in the first round. This coincides with his total disregard for my arguments and is simply one more reason why a Negative ballot is necessary.

The PRO has failed to support his side and has ignored the issues raised in the debate that oppose his viewpoints. Ultimately there exists no substantive reason not to vote in favor of the Opposition. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Masturdebater 7 years ago
Masturdebater
good topic
Posted by Clockwork 7 years ago
Clockwork
That would be great if you gave a pragmatic reason to prefer A.D. use.
Posted by mackoman_93 7 years ago
mackoman_93
Funny story about that :P

..not my premise at all. I'm going to try and stay away from the controversial religious position and stay purely with the pragmatic issue.

:)
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
When in Rome ...
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Funny how Christ has become a symbol of the West when He was from the Middle East.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by BlazingSleet 7 years ago
BlazingSleet
mackoman_93ClockworkTied
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Vote Placed by shlebear_94 7 years ago
shlebear_94
mackoman_93ClockworkTied
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Vote Placed by Clockwork 7 years ago
Clockwork
mackoman_93ClockworkTied
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Vote Placed by mackoman_93 7 years ago
mackoman_93
mackoman_93ClockworkTied
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Vote Placed by Doctor_Murray 7 years ago
Doctor_Murray
mackoman_93ClockworkTied
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Vote Placed by Pro-Cannabis 7 years ago
Pro-Cannabis
mackoman_93ClockworkTied
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