The Instigator
DucoNihilum
Pro (for)
Losing
60 Points
The Contender
s0m31john
Con (against)
Winning
102 Points

The user s0m31john is a pedophile

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/7/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,556 times Debate No: 3554
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (41)

 

DucoNihilum

Pro

My opponent shows clear signs of being a pedophile which I will outline in my further arguments.

My first, rather short, line of evidence will be his avatar (At the time of the creation of this opening argument) , a character known a pedo bear on the chans. It is a clear sign of pedophilia, as pedo bear is an example of an active pedophile bear, which regularly rapes 'lolis'.
s0m31john

Con

We meet again DucoNihilum, this time outside of Skype.

First some background info on Pedobear, for those of you that may not be up to date with all the *chan memes. I will be using Wikichan as my resource, as it pertains best to the topics at hand.

"A meme is a thought, idea, or memory that's passed around like mental AIDS, usually based around some sort of joke, comment, or line." (http://wikichan.org...)

"Pedobear is the 4chan re-make of the 2chan character known as Kuma-san (Mr. Bear). The "Americanization" of Kuma-san turned him into the sinister Pedobear, known for molesting female children and giving awards for those who do it like he would." (http://wikichan.org...)

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Pro assumes I use Pedobear to proclaim my sexual preference.

Pedobear is one of the most widely known memes from 4chan, and by using it as an avatar it proclaims I am a member of the community 4chan, also called anonymous.

The avatar does not define my sexual preference, but was rather picked because it is a widely known and accepted image that would tie me *chan.
Debate Round No. 1
DucoNihilum

Pro

While pedobear is indeed a widely known meme, especially on e/b/aums world and other sites with deep roots in 'internet culture', simply being known does not mean that any regular person (non pedophile) would use pedobear as a form of identity. Users of sites like e/b/aums world tend to relate themselves with a black man with an afro (Habbo hotel raids), or a cutout figure (Scientology raids)- or something of the sort. Only the pedophiles of those websites would identify themselves with a pedophile bear.

Pedobear is not the only thing that makes my opponent a pedophile- the most important thing that makes him a pedophile, by his own admission, is his frequent enjoyment of and arousal to lolicon pornography. In private chats he will often send us links to said pornography, and clearly state that he rather enjoys such. Lolicon pornography is drawn pornography of children, essentially a legal manifestation of child pornography- something only a pedophile would have any sexual arousal to.

If my opponent admits that he does in fact enjoy lolicon pornography, he admits that he is in fact a pedophile- as pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent girls, whereas lolicon is drawn manifestations of prepubescent girls.
s0m31john

Con

The American Heritage Dictionary defines pedophilia as the following:
"The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children."
(http://dictionary.reference.com...)

I am in no way attracted to real prepubescent females and would argue that animated/drawn lolicon is much different than child pornography. Many people are aroused by lolicon, but not by actual child porn.

It is also impossible to determine the age of a character in lolicon porn because they have no real age, as they are characters. Unless Duconihilum can prove that the creators of the lolicon I view labeled the them as underage, I don't see how he can assume they are.
Debate Round No. 2
DucoNihilum

Pro

Lolicon is a style of anime in which child or childlike figures are drawn in a suggestive or sexual manner. Essentially, it's a drawn version of child pornography, with absolutely no victims. You tried to counter my argument with the fact that lolicon characters are in fact ageless, while this might be true in part, pedophilia is also ageless. There is no 'age of pedophilia', rather, pedophilia is the queer attraction of underage, or to be more precise, prepubescent children. While you claim that you are not attracted to actual prepubescent children, you do seem to have a primary sexual attraction to the manifestation of actual children, and I ague that since my opponent has already conceded that he as a sexual attraction to animated child pornography, if he is not already interested in child pornography it is simply because he has not yet discovered actual child pornography yet, or because he is afraid of getting caught. In fact, there is already serious question as to whether or not he hides real child pornography on his computer, as he uses a program called "truecrypt" to hide his pornography-- this would not be unusual if he did not say the primary reason for this use of truecrypt was to hide said pornography from "the feds".

The user s0m31john has conceded that he does in fact enjoy lolicon pornography, given that lolicon pornography is simply a legal manifestation of child pornography, and that both involve a strong attraction to prepubescent girls, he is a pedophile.
s0m31john

Con

"There is no 'age of pedophilia', rather, pedophilia is the queer attraction of underage, or to be more precise, prepubescent children."

I provided the definition or pedophilia as "The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children."

The problem arises with the controversy of whether or not loli is an equivalent to child pornography. I would argue that it is not, and in fact is it's own fetish is itself.

Typical loli is drawn in a "kawaii" style, which in Western terms could roughly be translated as "tiny is cute". (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

The drawings are wildly different from real life child pornography. They are typically 2D, impossible for CP. They are usually drawn with bright colors, while real life CP is typically thought to be in the "dark underground" and is surrounded by a bad atmosphere. The characters depicted in loli are usually happy and willing to be depicted in the manner they are, this is not common in real life CP.

These things put lolicon in it's own category and should not be defined as CP, but rather a fetish in it's own. The viewers of it should not be called pedophiles, as it's not real, but rather lolicons.

This is why lolicon:
You state that lolicon is a style of anime, but it can also be used to describe a person who is into the lolicon style of anime you describe.

ex. "Look at those images on his computer, he must be a lolicon."

It is commonly used that way on message and image boards where the material is prevalent.

"In fact, there is already serious question as to whether or not he hides real child pornography on his computer, as he uses a program called "truecrypt" to hide his pornography-- this would not be unusual if he did not say the primary reason for this use of truecrypt was to hide said pornography from "the feds".

I used truecrypt not because I have something to hide which is illegal, but because my computer may be used by other people at certain times. In my experience truecrypt is the safest way to know almost certainly no one will find your "stash." It's comparable to what some people do with their pornography folders when they have to share a family computer, when they create a maze of folders in system files to discourage unwanted people from finding their images. My way is just more certain and efficient. I do not know why my opponent takes me seriously when I say I'm hiding something from the feds, perhaps he thinks the internet is serious business.

I close with my previous point. People who enjoy loli should not be considered pedophiles, leave that for people who ejoy real child pornography, but rather be in their own category of Lolicons.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Zerosmelt 8 years ago
Zerosmelt
""A meme is a thought, idea, or memory that's passed around like mental AIDS, usually based around some sort of joke, comment, or line." (http://wikichan.org...)"

that is a terrible definition sorry john.
Posted by sippinsizzurp 8 years ago
sippinsizzurp
It seems it was removed. Perhaps the webmaster thought my comments to be in poor taste.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
What happened to the comment with the one guy saying that the people in front of DucoNihilum's pic were scantily clad little kids? Although very trollish, that was sort of funny. No offense though.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
Please submit this evidence, pronto.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
Well Duconihilum, it was not my fault what I saw today. You are the one that linked me to that site.

You know what site.

Brb clearing cache.
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
I'm not making arguments, the arguments are over- I'm asking you directly.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
Please disregard my opponents ramblings in the comment sections when voting.
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
"The characters depicted in loli are usually happy and willing to be depicted in the manner they are, this is not common in real life CP."

How would you know this if you hadn't watched "real life CP"?
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
Lolicon is used to describe a 'lolita complex', in other words, a pedophille.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
NO U, Donivan, NO U

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