The Instigator
breaker11
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
TheLibertarian
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the RIGHT decision.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,924 times Debate No: 1501
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (7)

 

breaker11

Pro

If u disagree so strongly about this war on terror, than think about this for just a moment, think about all the men and women who lost their lives in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Think of the families of those people and how they felt. All those people were completely innocent. Now you tell me how you would've handled it if you were president... As for Iraq, by us getting Saddam Hussein out of power, it made the innocent Iraqi people, the people of the United States a lot safer. The government had no intentions on invading either country, Iraq or Afghanistan, until a group of Bin La Dens' radical followers (terrorists) hijacked those planes full of innocent Americans and used them as a weapon to kill even more innocent Americans. Now, tell me how this is not a war on terror and national as well as global security... If we weren't taking care of these acts the way we are; we would be getting attacked all over again! By the brave men and women serving in this war for their country, President George W. Bush, and his administration; we have taken an evil, inhumane, totalitarian- dictator, who raped, killed, tortured, wrongfully persecuted his own people, who did not have the courage or man power to defend there selves from him. By winning this war, and we will win, we will make these terrorist groups think twice about attacking the United States again, also by helping these countries establish a democratic system mush like our own, the people will be safe from leaders like Hussein. On an economical stand point, by establishing a democratic government it will open many more doors of opportunity's to trade with more countries. As a result, this presently developing nation, will soon become an economically stable, developed, free country. Which we should be proud of! God intended for us to be able to live with out the fears and unfair treatment that the people of Iraq and Afghanistan had to suffer through.
TheLibertarian

Con

When the awful, barbaric, and atrocious events of 9/11 occurred, there was a great deal of confusion circling the nation. Who would do such a thing? How did they do this? Why? We later discovered that the Taliban, a radical Islamic group did the dirty deed that will truly cause us to forever remember that day. At that time, the Taliban was holed up in caverns in Afghanistan, where they have been ever since they were created after the Cold War with Operation Cyclone. However, invading Afghanistan, and DEFINITELY invading Iraq were bad ideas, for a number of reasons. First, I will go against what my opponent has said, and than make some arguments of my own about what we SHOULD have done.

"As for Iraq, by us getting Saddam Hussein out of power, it made the innocent Iraqi people, the people of the United States a lot safer."
First my opponent makes the claim that somehow, Iraq, and the Taliban are related, regardless of the fact that this has been disproved time and time again. In addition, why is it our place what happens in another nation that does not affect us? This type of mentality caused a great deal of failures for America during the Cold War, with conflicts such as the CONTRA affair and Vietnam. By us invading Iran, we have not only hurt our public image, but have hypocritically gone against everything we are fighting for, restricting our rights and those of innocents all over the nation with the Patriot Act and Gitmo, respectively.

"If we weren't taking care of these acts the way we are; we would be getting attacked all over again!"
Unlikely, at best. After 9/11, we rushed into Afghanistan like Rambo, with no finesse and no secrecy. If we had used covert operations, like we did in Afghanistan EARLIER with amazing success, the problem would be over, and Osama and his follower's would probably be jailed or dead, and would not attack us again.

"By winning this war, and we will win, we will make these terrorist groups think twice about attacking the United States again, also by helping these countries establish a democratic system mush like our own, the people will be safe from leaders like Hussein."

First, I would just like to restate the fact that Hussein had nothing to with 9/11. This fallacy just shows another problem woth the lies of the current regime. next, my opponent says about how we will set up a democracy. Well, we have, but it is a failed on, as the secretarian violence in Iraq just shows the powder keg we blew up when we invaded. We are turning the nation into a police state, the exact OPPOSITE of our goals, and just shows how the invasion was an ill-planned mess.

"In an economical stand point, by establishing a democratic government it will open many more doors of opportunity's to trade with more countries. As a result, this presently developing nation, will soon become an economically stable, developed, free country."

Finally, my opponent brings in the economy. You say that the invasion was a good idea economically, as more nations will want to trade with us. So THAT must be why nations like Iran, Russia, and France have all pretty much stopped trading with us, for the sole fact of the two invasions. In addition, us becoming a nanny state to the floundering nation has only hurt our own economy even worse, so don't even begin to tell me that this was a fiscally good move for America.

So 9/11 happened, so what should we have done if not invade Iraq or Afghanistan, you ask? Well, we have this pretty great leftover of the Cold War called the Central Intelligence Agency. Now, a radicalist group commits a terrorist act in America. Do we invade the entire freakin' country where they are staying in a rash and foolish move? Or do a go a more quiet way, sending in a vast amount of spies, and taking apart the group the inside out? Using the CIA has worked wonders for America in the past, and I feeel that it would work again brilliantly. In addition, with Iraq, there was no good reason for that. We should have AT LEAST invaded Pakistan, as that was where Taliban moved, and presumably still are. So no, I feel both wars were vain, idiotic, and just shows the ineptness of our foreign policy. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
breaker11

Pro

First of all I never said that Iraq had anything to do with the taliban or the attacks on 9/11. We are in Iraq because the CIA told us that there were WMD's in the country. Secondly getting Hussein out of power was something that needed to be done, and shouldve been done a long time ago.

Yes we are setting up a democracy in Iraq. Soon they will be having an open national election. Which proves that the invasion was not an ill-planned mess.

I said that more countries would want to trade with Iraq, not the US.

Yes invading the entire country was the right decision because not all of the terrorists were in one place. Most of them might have fled with Bin La Den to Pakistan, but not all of them. The CIA does not have enough man power to take on such a powerful group that we are dealing with. The same goes for the Iraqi people, they were not strong enough to overthrow Hussein. That is exactly why they are happy we are helping them out. In conclusion, these wars are in no way "idiotic".
TheLibertarian

Con

TheLibertarian forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
breaker11

Pro

breaker11 forfeited this round.
TheLibertarian

Con

TheLibertarian forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
the fact that i have debate like that on this website doesn't prove anything. I didn't start those debates and if you'll notice one was a joke, another oe was a joke started by my BOYFRIEND! and the other one was not even about my looks but I wouldn't expect you to know that since you probably didn't even read them.

I am SOOO tired of people saying "your concern isn't human life, you are pro-choice" You are so narrow minded. I am actually personally against abortion, but I am pro-choice because the government shouldn't be able to tell you what to do with your own body or the parasite living in it! That may be harsh wording to you but thats what a fetus is. It can't live on it's own outside of the womens body. That's not a human. It doesn't matter what your opinion is about this issue. You can think whatever you want, but I am concerned with human life far more than you are. I would never okay the killing of a person or group of people like the president you support has.

Speaking as someone who has LIVED in a war zone, I think that war doesn't discriminate against who dies. So don't feed me that nonsense about insurgents. Oh and insurgents are people too.

I noticed you still haven't given me ONE valid reason for the war in Iraq. When you can do that we'll talk further. I would be pissed off if I was you and my husband was risking his life and giving up his freedom to his country to fight in a war that is a joke and doesn't mean anything.

When will you realize that a country like Iraq can't have a democracy? They don't want one. There's going to be a genocide of the Sunnis in Iraq and it will be thanks to us.

The whole world wept for us when 9/11 happened. My relatives in europe were going to blood banks to help out. Then what happened? We went and attacked a country that had nothing to do with the attacks. Now everyone hates us more than ever before.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Many of my ideas are my own. Although I am Catholic , I believe times have changed since the bible and don't believe homosexuals are sinners and should go to hell. I am still against gay marriage for other reasons, but I am for civil unions. If I chose to follow my religion and not question then that wouldn't be my stance or opinion at all. I am also not really for the Death penalty in most cases which is something my party and Christianity both are very much for. I am against abortion and will be no matter what others do. I am a mother and I feel babies are innocent. I have seen enough girls get pregnant 3 or 4 times and run for another abortion. I am against drugs 100% because I have seen them destroy so many lives. So to say I just follow blindly is not true. I have my own thoughts and opinions.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
The fact that you have several debates on here about whether you are cute or not shows that you need men to validate you. Your thought are not independent , they are that of any other liberal atheist just as mine are similar to alot of Christian conservatives. I am not talking about what the US government tells the soldiers , I am talking about what the soldiers see with their own eyes. Your concern isn't human lives , you are prochoice , that is not exactly caring about human lives. Who exactly do you think we are killing over there? Insurgents, that are tormenting the people over there? The people that attack our soldiers? You act as though they are off in a hunt killing Iraqi civilians and that is so far from the truth. MY husband has been there 7 months and hasn't killed one Iraqi. Nor has anyone in his unit. Whether you agree with the war or don't we should be there. If you agree then you see why we should be there, if you disagree then you must see why it is the right thing to rebuild and fix what was destroyed. I guarantee you don't know what I have dealt with in my life with drugs or what I have seen. Your comment that I needed to go smoke a blunt was immature. Drugs being legalized will only make it easier for more of our young children to get hooked on drugs and destroy their lives. I am extremely independent and just because my ideas are different than yours does not make my opinions and ideas any less right than yours. You think what you say is the right way and that is it. I am okay with people not agreeing with me. We all have different opinions, I am not okay with people putting me down when they disagree with me. You can disagree with me all you want , but as you can see when someone puts you down for what you believe in , you don't like it.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
What is wrong with you? Where do you get the idea that I need men to validate me? I have not in any way shown that I need anyone else to validate me. If you'll pay attention, you'll realize that I have thoughts far more independent than yours.

It is respectable to get information from people who are involved in a situation, but you should also realize when your in the midst of a situation you fail to see the bigger picture. I know you wont agree with me but it doesn't matter. I know that I'm right about that. Another thing I know for a fact is that the U.S. government lies to its people, what stops them from lying to their soldiers?

I don't follow others blindly, I question everything, even things said by liberals. I didn't want to bring partisanship into this but since you did lets address it. As a liberal my main concern is huan beigs and human life. You say that sometimes innocent people have to die for the greater good in war, I sometimes agree with this. But what do you think we're killing people over there for? Exactly? Don't say freedom. Give me an exact ideal or principle or reason. Don't say democracy either because those people never asked us to bring democracy to them.

If you'll notice in my previous post I wrote ALMOST unanimous. Which is true. I did NOT say unanimous. I am actaully very careful to never speak in absolutes.

I also NEVER insulted your daughetr. I wished her well in fact.

I never said soldiers don't deserve respect. I love all people.

The problem with kids ruining their lives has less to do with drugs and more to do with the way drugs ar treated in our society. Don't underestimate what I've seen and experienced in my life. I GUARANTEE you it is more than you have seen and been through.

And lastly, you are not and probably will never be more independent than I am. You seem to depend on the views of the people around you, namely your husband and conservative friends, while I find all my own truths.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
If you were half as independent as me you wouldn't need men to validate your self worth on a website. My daughter , thanks to me will realize that she never needs a man to tell her she is cute to realize she is a beautiful person. Maybe someday you will come to that level too.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
I don't get my information from Bill Oreilly, I get my information from the troops, the men and women that are actually over there. You can refute what they say when you have been there and can argue against what they have seen. You are very hypocritical you state that I blindly follow ideas of others , yet I see it as you blindly following others. You state that this country in unanimously on the idea that the war s unsuccessful well I feel you are wrong. I don't think this country is unanimously in agreement about anything concerning the war. You say I am for killing innocent people , that is untrue. I do not want any innocent people to die, however i also understand that war is sometimes necessary. There are many Iraqi people that are actually happy that American troops are there. They throw parades cheering on our soldiers , they are kind to our soldiers. They talk to our soldiers and are even beginning to help our soldiers by turning in insurgents. I believe you are the sheep stuck in your liberal ways , you believe I am a sheep stuck in my conservative ways however I respect that you have an opinion and I expect that if you have maturity you will respect that I have mine. You insult whenever you disagree with me and when I finally give a taste back you continue to get worse with your insults. My daughter will be an independent women, do not for a minute think it is okay to insult my daughter. I am an independent women with my own thoughts and views. You do not know me at all and you judge me based on my views that the war is right and soldiers deserve proper respect. You judge on my views because I think drugs should stay illegal. You are younger and maybe drug abuse has not touched those you love , if it does , (which I hope it doesn't) you may see my views and realize that telling someone to smoke a blunt because they are tired of watching young kids lives ruined by drugs is immature. I am more independent than you will ever be.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
That was a joke, a joke making fun of you because that is how you act when someone comments on the things you say.

The country is almost unanimous on the idea that this war is very unsuccessful, that it was a bad idea and that we should leave. The only people left supporting are far right-wingers who actually still think Bush is a good president. Quit watching Bill O'Reilly and open your eyes.

You try to be convey the idea that you are so full of good will, yet you believe that killing innocent humans for the sake of an ideal that is ours is just.

Stop being a sheep and start thinking for yourself. I feel sorry for your four year old because maybe without you she could grow up and be independent of others thoughts and think for herself.

Breaker is misinformed and you agreeing with someone who is obviously just blindly following the ideas of others makes you look even worse than you may be.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
You act as though Breaker is misinformed and ignorant about the war in Iraq and I am just trying to understand what makes you so all knowing about what is really going on over there.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
You are the most immature person I have ever dealt with in my life. My 4 year old has more self respect and maturity than you do.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
It doesn't require me to be there. It just requires that I'm not ignorant. Who's following who around, stop stalking me kels! JEEZ! you freak!
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
breaker11TheLibertarianTied
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Vote Placed by artC 9 years ago
artC
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Vote Placed by Lenfent 9 years ago
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