The Instigator
vinavinx
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
qwerty15ster
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

The war in Iraq is both good for america and the citizens of Iraq

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/12/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,320 times Debate No: 2573
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (18)

 

vinavinx

Pro

People who look at the war in Iraq often think that it is a war AGAINST Iraq. This all in all is not true. Our war over in the middle east is against terror. Terrorists are housed in the northern part of Iraq currently. The coalition forces of our brave men and the humble men of Iraq are working together to fight against the threat of Al-Qaeda.
qwerty15ster

Con

Ok, so thank you opponent for this debate. With that, lets begin.

So this will be rather short. My opponent argues that the war in Iraq is good for BOTH America and Iraqi citizens. So all I need to do is prove that it is bad for either America, the Iraqi citizens, or both. And both is what I will attacking, however I only need to win on one to win the debate.

Starting off with how it is bad for the Iraqi citizens....

Estimates for number of Iraqi civilians who have died because of the invasion range between 80,000 and 1.2 million people. Let us say that each person that was killed had only 3 friends and/or relatives that their death affected. (Most will probably be higher, but whatev, let us go with that) Let us multiply the low and high end of the estimates by 3 and then we see that between 240,000 and 3.6 million have been negatively affected by the war. That is somewhere between .88% and 13.3% of the population.

Estimates also say that 4 million Iraqis have been displaced since the invasion. Let us add that to the numbers we already have. 4.2-7.6 million have been negative affected by the invasion. You claim that the war is good for Iraqi citizens, tell that to somewhere around 5.5 million (median) Iraqis.

This is also not including that the Iraqi people also have less electricity and less water than before the invasion. Ya, sounds like they are doing just fine with us there..... (Sarcasm)

Now let us move on to bad for America.... I have about the same arguments. (I do not mean to devalue the sacrifice that American soldiers give this country, I very much respect and thank them for that. I do however, feel that we should never have gone into Iraq.)

The estimated number of deaths for American soldiers is sitting right around 4,000. The estimated number of injuries is somewhere around 30,000. Again, let us say their death only affected 3 people. (Again, quite and underestimate) 12,000 Americans have been negatively affected (in a very personal way) by the war in deaths alone. Let us do the same to the injury number and 120,000 people have been negatively affected by the war.

My next argument deals with a mindset.

Not only this, but America is less safe than it was before the war. Virtually no one in the world thinks we should be in Iraq, thus a lot of anti-American sentiment has grown. Many people have speculated that al qaeda was very small in Iraq, if there at all before the war. The anti-American sentiment has lead to thousands of new al qaeda members going into Iraq to defend what they see as their land. The US is less safe because of the war.

Finally, on to the money part.

The Congressional budget office estimates that we have spent just under half a trillion dollars on the war. Considering our national debt is somewhere around nine trillion, this one thing has contributed to 5.5% of the national debt. That is absolutely huge. And obviously bad for America.

With that, I have shown how the Iraq War is bad not just for Iraqi citizens, but for America too. I await my opponents response and do ask that either this debate is done speedily, or that the timeframe that we debate this in is done so that I do not miss a round, as I leave on Friday for a vacation where there is no electricity or running water much less a computer and internet. I get back on Monday. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
vinavinx

Pro

Deaths are a part of war my friend and our efforts in iraq are decreasing deaths. Our efforts over in iraq are also providing security for their citizens. Our military is effectivly training citizen iraqis to take care of themselves. Iraq has been also opening up trade with other countries and is effectivly expanding their economy. People without homes are getting those homes back. The reason they were displaced in the first place was to stop more deaths! Heck! Would you want to live in a warzone? As for people hating america that is a result of biased press. Not the war on terror.
qwerty15ster

Con

So first of all, may I thank my opponent for his timely response....

He agrees that I only need to win one side of the debate to win the whole thing as he dropped this point.

The only real thing my opponent my opponent argued that is death is a part of war. However, this doesn't matter, what matters is his resolution "The war in Iraq is both good for america and the citizens of Iraq" Death is obviously not good for the citizens of Iraq, it doesn't matter whether or not it is a part of war, it is bad for them. Thus I have won on that point.

He then goes on to say that things are getting better for Iraq, however he fails to provide any evidence backing this up, or how this benefits the Iraqi citizens at all. I would also point out that death outweighs any good that could come, so I will win anyway.

On to the US...

He basically just says we are more unsafe, because of the biased meadia, not the war. However, he failed to attack my real points, there is no clash with this whatsoever! Thus my point will still stand that people who come and invade their country will get pissed and revolt. Would you be happy if the Iraqi guard was here in the US? Didnt think so. Because of the war, we are there, because we are there, they revolt, because they revolt, everyone including the US is less safe.

He almost completely dropped my economy argument. Thus he agrees that the war is paying a huge toll on the US economy, and that is hurting us.

The war in Iraq is bad for the citizens of Iraq as it kills them, and they are replaced. If the war had never happened, they wouldn't have had to be replaced in the first place, thus it is bad. And it is bad for America because it makes us less safe, kills our soldiers, and hurts our economy. Thus I have won on both sides of the topic.
Debate Round No. 2
vinavinx

Pro

vinavinx forfeited this round.
qwerty15ster

Con

Well you can extend EVERYTHING I said in my last speech as again my opponent failed to reply. The war is bad on both levels, and I have proven that.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
mrmazoo, you are the most pessimistic person I've ever met.

"Liberals don't want to lose the war. The war is a lose/lose situation. Even if we win, we lose."

So WWII was a lose/lose as well?
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
Our county has no business engaging in a war that is not absolutely necessary. We were not retaliating for and Iraqi attack on our homeland when we decided to invade. Had we not gone to war, we would be in no greater danger today. More importantly, we invaded Iraq at a huge financial cost to this and future generations. We have no business being involved in an optional war that we simply cannot afford.
Posted by mrmazoo 9 years ago
mrmazoo
Incidentally, don't you idiots find it at all ironic that of all the regimes we pointed our vengeful, spiteful, moralistic fingers at, it is only the country we left alone and dealt with on purely diplomatic terms that is no longer a problem?

I'm talking about North Korea, you idiots.

Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan...they are all becoming more and more of a threat. That's what happens when you shake your fist at someone.

Oh, but someone is making out really good from all this. Wall Street. The banking system. The oil companies. The military-industrial complex. This isn't about conservative versus liberal. How stupid can you be? Of COURSE Democrats are just as bad as Republicans. They are playing for the same team! Guess whose team YOU are on? BBBBBBBAAAAAAAA!!! WRONG! You are on the other team. That would be the LOSERS. Just like me and just like 99.9% of everyone on this planet.

The world has ALWAYS been ruled by elites operating behind a curtain. Ever since the reign of kings. What makes you think it is any different now?

Fools.
Posted by mrmazoo 9 years ago
mrmazoo
The war in Iraq has caused hundreds of thousands of needless deaths, has created terrorists out of countless numbers of people, and is bankrupting the country.

Liberals don't want to lose the war. The war is a lose/lose situation. Even if we win, we lose.

You ditto-heads might be laughing now, but you'll be crying in a couple of years. And no doubt you will blame Democrats for your troubles.

Not only is Iraq a total failure, but Afghanistan is a failure as well. And now we face a Pakistan that might be ready to come undone because of the way Musharaf and the U.S. has handled the war on terror.

The worst thing about it is that it is already too late to correct the situation. Anything we do will have bad consequences (which, again, you idiots will blame on liberals).

If you are thinking about having kids, don't. The current generation is almost certainly the last generation in America who will be better off than their parents were. Start buying things that have intrinsic, lasting value and hold on to it. Your money is not going to be worth very much in the future.

The current recession is very real and is going to get much, much worse. Better start hunkering down now.
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
Why are all liberals such pessimists? I want to congratulate the democratic party for banking on us losing the war, which is completely backfiring in their face. They opposed the surge. The surge is working. Now theyre saying there's no political progress. Really? Well Iraq is set to have presidential elections next fall. It's funny because we never hear about the war in iraq anymore...BECAUSE WE'RE KICKING A**. The liberal media is a joke. The war in Iraq is good for the United States and the Iraqi people.
Posted by ericjpomeroy 9 years ago
ericjpomeroy
18 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by ETKANG 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Blondy181216 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by mrmazoo 9 years ago
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