The Instigator
benshapirohero
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
TheH0rnet.exe
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The word "genius" is so overused

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/15/2016 Category: People
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 327 times Debate No: 94759
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

benshapirohero

Pro

It really annoys me when I hear "Oh, I just had this GENIUS idea!" on Facebook, or "(insert person's favorite athlete or singer) is a genius!"
In the end, people can say what they want to say, but it irks me because they're taking away credit from the real geniuses.
(Michealangelo, Edgar Allan Poe, Ben Carson Etc. )

And just so we're clear, Kanye is not a genius.
TheH0rnet.exe

Con

Remember, when someone says (I'm quoting what you said here) "this is a genius idea", they are speaking about the idea itself. Say the stupidest person comes up with a genius idea. The idea is being referred to. Not the person as he generally not very smart.

Secondly, who are you to judge who a genius actually is. It should be societies choice whether they label someone a genius or not. And by society, I mean the majorities of people who use the word genius to describe. It's their choice whether they label something or someone a genius. You can't argue with their thoughts because that person or thing in their mind, key words being their mind, are a genius.
Debate Round No. 1
benshapirohero

Pro

The idea that they're referring to is almost always not genius though. Some guy on Facebook said he had a "genius idea."
It was a daffy duck play. This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

Also, I don't get to pick who's a genius- I'm using examples of people everybody can agree on that are geniuses.
Michelangelo=genius
Beethoven=genius
Chopin=genius
Rachmaninoff=genius
Thomas Edison=genius
If you dispute their genius, please explain to me why, and give me your own list.

All the best
TheH0rnet.exe

Con

Lets remember, I said that even if it is not a genius Idea to you and maybe some other people, it is a 'genius idea' to that person in that persons head, and maybe some of their friends. So though that Daffy Duck play was not a genius idea to you, It was a genius idea to the person that made that post.

Also, when you compare a proper genius to a genius in someone's head, that false genius who is not genius to you (Daffy Duck play), (Kanye West), (That homeless guy across the street), may have not shown any smart ideas yet.

The idea of calling someone or something genius is because you do not see a lot of those ideas or people expressing those smart ideas. Some songwriters can be called geniuses as their lyrics are unique, so what this genius covers for is the word unique, and even if you think that is stupid, it is what it is and it does not harm anyone, so why try to argue against it in the first place?

Good Luck
Debate Round No. 2
benshapirohero

Pro

A lot of times it's a " 'genius idea' to that person" because it's their idea.
And just so we're clear, if their ideas are truly genius, I can't think of many ideas that aren't.

'The idea of calling someone or something genius is because you do not see a lot of those ideas or people expressing those smart ideas.'
I agree. Plenty of geniuses are unproductive, lazy, unstable, or flat out bums. They are brilliant, but are not labeled geniuses because there's no evidence that they are. Even geniuses have to work to succeed (Tesla, Leonardo da Vinci, ect.)

"and even if you think that is stupid, it is what it is and it does not harm anyone, so why try to argue against it in the first place?"
People who claim their ideas are "genius" are free to do so. The problem is that if a daffy duck play idea is "genius," what's the theory of relativity? Geniuser? The word loses all meaning, since its applicable to anything.

Also, watch any interview of Kanye and you'll see what I mean.
TheH0rnet.exe

Con

your first line pretty much calls out no one. I and those who take a vote on this debate probably have not seen many people calling out there own ideas as genius. Personally, I have not, and I really do not think anyone has. Maybe one or two people I or anyone else has seen have done that but it happens so little that I cannot even remember. Maybe I am wrong, but even if I am wrong, your second line says pretty much every idea is genius if the word 'genius' is used so much truly.

you would not call a piece of cheesecake genius. A plain piece of cheesecake. Now obviously no one would be stupid enough to call an ordinary PLAIN piece of cheesecake genius. Now decorate the cheesecake with an extremely unique, non thought of design. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would call that genius as it is unthought of or not seen, just like that Daffy Duck play. No one would randomly think or present a show on Daffy Duck. That play was unique and out of the ordinary.

genius = unique to society
Debate Round No. 3
benshapirohero

Pro

I'd appreciate if you address my other arguments above.

You said "genius" = unique to society".
First, genius is defined as exceptional creative power- and while this kind of genius is always unique, that doesn't mean that everything that's unique is always genius.

Listen to Schoenberg, and you'll see what I mean.
TheH0rnet.exe

Con

I would have said more, but you put a really horrible character limit on this. I was going to analyse what you said in a lot more detail.

And no. You just said it yourself. 'Genius is defined as exceptional creative power'. That Daffy duck play is creative. Who would think to make something as stupid as that. Its creative, though it is not very smart, geniuses do not need to be smart to be a genius. They just have to be creative. Proper geniuses like; Einstein, Newton, Curie etc have sort of set a standard of genius. This does not mean every other creative idea gets ruled off. They just set a standard.
Debate Round No. 4
benshapirohero

Pro

"I would have said more, but you put a really horrible character limit on this."
I limited the character count because less is more. I was tempted to go with 500...

"I was going to analyse what you said in a lot more detail."
I'm feeling generous today, so here's your chance. You get a whole round to address my three previous points. If you don't, I automatically win.

1. "The problem is that if a daffy duck play idea is "genius," what's the theory of relativity? Geniuser? The word loses all meaning, since its applicable to anything."

2. "A lot of times it's a " 'genius idea' to that person" because it's their idea."

3. "And just so we're clear, if their ideas are truly genius, I can't think of many ideas that aren't."

As always, thanks for your time.
You got a little fight in you.
I like that. ;)
TheH0rnet.exe

Con

Hey, Hey I love you and all, but you cant say 'I automatically win'. Last time I checked, people vote on who wins, unless you have rigged that.

I addressed your point number 2 in round number 3 and point 3 in some other round.

There is no theory behind this kind of genius. Its like a slang word for unthought of and unique. Its not official as it is societies interpretation.

and as we both said, genius is a 'creative exceptional power' and that is the definition. Therefore it can be used for anything creative, like that Daffy duck play. How many Daffy duck plays do you just randomly see? Not many. Its creative, innovative and unique.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by GrimlyF 7 months ago
GrimlyF
Genius is acquired by having a very high I.Q. supposedly.The Mensa test is simply based on an ability to recognise patterns.Someone with a high I.Q. can be as dumb as a post.Even with an eidectic memory they are empty vessels. "Genius is made not born.Einstein would be unknown but for a solid knowledge of Physics and Mathematics.You need knowledge to be a genius and lets face it the first guy to say eureka is the genius not the guy a week away from the same idea.(See Edison and his light bulb).
Posted by PowerPikachu21 8 months ago
PowerPikachu21
CONCLUSION:

Pro had to either show that 1) The word "genius" is used out of context, or 2) That it's used extremely often.

Using the standard of "creative" that Pro set up, Con has created a way to tell us what is genius, and I'd say Con's genius as well, since Pro dropped this. And with this standard, Pro couldn't show anything that fit outside this value, and people called it "genius".

As for the 2nd burden, Pro never showed any excessive usage of "genius" either.

So I believe the winner is Con; TheH0rnet.exe!

If you have any questions about my decision, ask away.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 8 months ago
PowerPikachu21
"your first line pretty much calls out no one. I and those who take a vote on this debate probably have not seen many people calling out there own ideas as genius." - Con

Must it call out a specific person? I personally see Pro's point. While genius is subjective, there are some times where it would be used out of context. Though, now that I think of it, has anyone actually used "genius" out of context?

Round 4:

"You said "genius" = unique to society".
First, genius is defined as exceptional creative power- and while this kind of genius is always unique, that doesn't mean that everything that's unique is always genius." - Pro

Kind of late to make definitions. Since definitions weren't given prior, and giving a definition as a rebuttal, I'm going to just use my own understanding of "genius". Though this point won't go unnoticed.

"You just said it yourself. 'Genius is defined as exceptional creative power'. That Daffy duck play is creative. Who would think to make something as stupid as that." - Con

I like how you're turning this case around, Con. Though I don't know why you're calling the idea "stupid" now.

"This does not mean every other creative idea gets ruled off. They just set a standard."

This is what I was looking for, Pro; a standard we can use to judge "genius". So creative = genius.

Round 5:

Pro kind of waives this round. As for Con...

"genius is a 'creative exceptional power' and that is the definition. Therefore it can be used for anything creative, like that Daffy duck play. How many Daffy duck plays do you just randomly see? Not many. Its creative, innovative and unique."

Con rehashes the new definition. I did say I was going with my understanding (which is simply "smart" as the definition), but the fact that Con is using Pro's definition against him, that makes me want to take it into more consideration.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 8 months ago
PowerPikachu21
Round 2:

"The idea that they're referring to is almost always not genius though. Some guy on Facebook said he had a "genius idea."
It was a daffy duck play. This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about." - Pro

Sources would be nice. And if I saw it, I could consider it a "Genius" idea. Again, it's subjective.

"Also, I don't get to pick who's a genius- I'm using examples of people everybody can agree on that are geniuses." - Pro

I do agree scientists and other celebrities are commonly called "genius", but that doesn't mean I can't be a genius as well.

"Lets remember, I said that even if it is not a genius Idea to you and maybe some other people, it is a 'genius idea' to that person in that persons head, and maybe some of their friends. So though that Daffy Duck play was not a genius idea to you, It was a genius idea to the person that made that post."

Con again points out the subjectivity to what a "genius" is. This negates the "out of context" burden I set on Pro.

Round 3:

"A lot of times it's a " 'genius idea' to that person" because it's their idea.
And just so we're clear, if their ideas are truly genius, I can't think of many ideas that aren't."

This is a flaw in Con's statement. Since I can call myself a genius as much as I want, it could be out of context in one case or another. Isn't there a way to make "genius" actually mean a real value?

"'The idea of calling someone or something genius is because you do not see a lot of those ideas or people expressing those smart ideas.'
I agree. Plenty of geniuses are unproductive, lazy, unstable, or flat out bums. They are brilliant, but are not labeled geniuses because there's no evidence that they are. Even geniuses have to work to succeed"

More valid rebuttals. Even though, yes, genius is subjective, not everyone can be considered a "genius", since we have to give a set value to determine "genius".
Posted by PowerPikachu21 8 months ago
PowerPikachu21
The voting period already passed, but I want to decide a winner of this debate.

The resolution is "The word 'genius' is overused". Overused was never defined, or even considered within the debate itself. If something is overused, it means it has been used too many times. But what is "too many times"? I guess it would be overused if used in bad context, or be almost the only word to describe smart people.

So Pro has to prove either 1) "Genius" has been used without context numerous times, or 2) It was at least used over 80% of the time.

Round 1:

"It really annoys me when I hear "Oh, I just had this GENIUS idea!" on Facebook, or "(insert person's favorite athlete or singer) is a genius!"
In the end, people can say what they want to say, but it irks me because they're taking away credit from the real geniuses." - Pro

This seems to be mostly Pro's personal opinion. In Round 1, his point is that civilians are being credited more than people like Einstein. I don't see how this equates to "overused", though.

"Secondly, who are you to judge who a genius actually is. It should be societies choice whether they label someone a genius or not. And by society, I mean the majorities of people who use the word genius to describe." - Con

An excellent counterargument. Indeed, it would be the user of an adjective to judge its correct context. Also, it's kind of subjective what constitutes as a genius.
Posted by vi_spex 9 months ago
vi_spex
genetically eye us
No votes have been placed for this debate.