The Instigator
SeelTheMan
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
ryanKim
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The words "Under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
SeelTheMan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,834 times Debate No: 22705
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

SeelTheMan

Pro

The words "Under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Round 1 - Acceptance
Round 2 - Arguments
Round 3 - Rebuttals


Opponent must accept these conditions.
-No usage of wikipedia as a source.
-Pro must prove why it is rational to remove the words "Under God" from the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance.
-Con must prove why it is irrational to remove the words "Under God" from the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance.

Good luck.
ryanKim

Con

Good luck :)
Debate Round No. 1
SeelTheMan

Pro


The words "under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance.
I will number my arguments.

1. Because public schools have the practice of saying the Pledge of Allegiance during the school day, it gives children a religious message that the U.S. is a christian nation, when millions of it's citizens are not christian.

2. The U.S. is not a Christian nation, nor was it founded on Christianity.
The Treaty of Tripoli was ratified in 1797 by the U.S. Senate. Those who helped write this were George Washington and John Adams. From Article 11 in the Treay of Tripoli, it states "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion" Therefore, the U.S. is not a Christian nation.

3. One argument by the opponent may be that the U.S. may be a Christian nation because the majority of Americans are Christian. The majority of Americans are white, but is this considered a white nation? No, this is a nation of all ethnicities and nationalities.

4. This phrase "under God" wasn't even in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954. Why wasn't the words in the Allegiance before this? Because the U.S. is not a Christian nation.

5. When a child is saying the pledge in public school, he is not only pledging to the flag, he is now pledging to "God," because he says under God, it assumes that God exists, regardless to the massive amount of people who don't believe in a God.

6. The 1st Amendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
The words "Under God" should be removed because it prohibits the free excercise of Athiesm. A child is taught to say the pledge of allegiance in public school. In the pledge of allegiance it gives the assumption that God exists. Why should kids have to have that assumption.

7. "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
By saying one Nation under God, it assumes that the ENTIRE nation is united with the belief that god exists. This is not true, because there are many religions in the U.S.

8. Since 2004, the flag code has been changed.

"Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of
America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules
with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed
Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and
any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation."

The current president Obama even said - "is ... we have a very large Christian population -- we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."




Sources
http://www.senate.gov...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Thank you, and I would like my opponent to please only post arguments in round 2, and we may start rebuttals in round 3.
ryanKim

Con

ryanKim forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
SeelTheMan

Pro

I extend all arguments.
Vote con.
Thank you,
SeelTheMan
ryanKim

Con

AS the negative. I am going to argue that it does not matter.

1. It is a saying. By law, you are not required to say the pledge.

and now I will attack your case.
n
1. They have no idea what they're saying. And in the event they do interpret the message of the pledge instead of just saying it verbatim like every other child, he is not required by law to recite the pledge. And it says under God... There are more than 1 god in this world (meaning multiple religions). and on that note, that's my attack for your 2nd argument.

2. You said yourself, the US wasn't founded on Christianity. So "god" in the pledge doesn't necessarily mean it's referring the christian god.. those are your assumptions.

3. Skip because that wasn't one of my arguments.

4. The US is under "god".. any god. and one of your arguments maybe there may be atheists. If they don't believe in a god, that's their business and their business alone.

5. The child is not required by law to say the pledge.

6. They pledge is not a law so the first amendment doesn't apply here.

7. It means the person saying the pledge is assuming the entire nation is united with the belief. And under the first amendment, they are free to express their ideas and have their own religion and thoughts.

8. Not required by law to say the pledge.

They president is one person and can not speak for everyone. He was elected to run the country and it's affairs. Not to declare why the US is not a christian country.

And sorry for the late responses. Do you want to make the same debate with these same arguments and have another round of arguments?
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by SeelTheMan 5 years ago
SeelTheMan
For close-minded people...
Posted by KILLUMINATI 5 years ago
KILLUMINATI
Any debate to due with religion has much more bias
Posted by SeelTheMan 5 years ago
SeelTheMan
There is bias in every debate in voting. Unless the voter has absolutely no knowledge of the topic of the debate before they saw it, there is bias in every debate. This is where voting on the debate itself and not your own opinion comes in.
Posted by KILLUMINATI 5 years ago
KILLUMINATI
When most of the people agree with you ahead of time it would not be very smart to take your challenge. The bias is so prevalent there is no point to argue.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
SeelTheManryanKimTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for Con's forfeit. Arguments for Con's failure to present arguments until the last round, which make them inadmissible.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
SeelTheManryanKimTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: All arguments last round are unfair. Conduct for FF. new arguments last round ate invalid. Therefore pro wins.