The Instigator
Anayansi
Con (against)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
1dustpelt
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

The world is overpopulated, and responsible people know this, so they should not reproduce.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
1dustpelt
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/14/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,076 times Debate No: 22005
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (3)

 

Anayansi

Con

I have often heard the argument that the world is overpopulated, so responsible people should not reproduce, and should instead adopt.

The first round is for acceptance. Second round is for arguments, third round for rebuttals, fourth round for summary and wrap up.


1dustpelt

Pro

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Anayansi

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate. The four key issues in this debate are overpopulation, reproduction, responsible parenthood, and adoption. I will start with some definitions, and then proceed to put them into context.

Basic Definitions:

Overpopulation: The population of an environment by a particular species in excess of the environment's carrying capacity. The effects of overpopulation can include the depletion of resources, environmental deterioration, and the prevalence of famine and disease.

Reproductive Rights: They include the right to decide the number, timing and spacing of children.

Responsible Parenthood: refers to the will, ability and commitment of parents to respond to the needs and aspirations of the family and children, more particularly through family planning.

Arguments about reproduction:

Reproductive rights are human rights, recognized by the United Nations, which allow parents to decide how many children they will have. In other words, humans have the right to reproduce. Demanding or suggesting to a human that he/she should avoid reproduction is equal to suggesting to this person that they should waive their rights. Responsible parents exert their reproductive rights, to have the number of children they can properly raise, according to their environment and circumstances.

Arguments about overpopulation:

Claiming that the world, in general, is overpopulated is inaccurate and simplistic, because resource availability, population density, environmental carrying capacity, and environmental management practices, vary by region.

There are areas of the world that face overpopulation due to a combination of factors:
1. Poor resource distribution
2. Lack of education
3. Violation of reproductive and other human rights
4. Environmental mismanagement
5. Insufficient carrying capacity

On the other hand, there are areas of the world that are not overpopulated, and/or do not face those problems.

Arguments about adoption:

Not all children in overpopulated areas are up for adoption. In traditional agricultural cultures, people have a large number of children to use them free labor in the farm.

Not every adopting family is suitable for intercultural/interracial adoptions because of their beliefs, lifestyle, and even social environment. Sometimes transplanting a child to an incompatible culture will produce more harm than good.

Not every parent is suitable for adopting. Some parents need to feel a biological bond with their children, some women need to experience pregnancy to establish the bond with the baby and an adopted child will just not do.

Overpopulation, reproduction, and adoption

The issues of overpopulated areas will not be solved by adoptions, because the causes that produced the overpopulation in the first place have not been addressed. Addressing the real causes of overpopulation through both targeted aid and political pressure should make a difference.

On the other hand, the practice of responsible parenthood in non-overpopulated areas will not cause them to become overpopulated, because the fertility of responsible parents will be, by definition, sustainable. Fertility rates in Europe, North America, and major countries in Asia and South America are already below replacement rate.

So basically denying responsible parents their reproductive rights in one area of the globe, because of overpopulation caused by violations of reproductive rights or irresponsibility in other areas of the globe, is unfair and pointless. Adoption should be an act of love, love for the child, and not an obligation born out of some misguided sense of duty with the environment.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

http://www.unfpa.org...

http://jlp-law.com...

http://www.childwelfare.gov...
1dustpelt

Pro

I took the wrong side. :( That will teach me to read debates before accepting.
I will take a try anyways.

Rebuttals
My opponent's main argument is this:
"There are areas of the world that face overpopulation due to a combination of factors:
1. Poor resource distribution
2. Lack of education
3. Violation of reproductive and other human rights
4. Environmental mismanagement
5. Insufficient carrying capacity

On the other hand, there are areas of the world that are not overpopulated, and/or do not face those problems. Reproduction is not the real cause of overpopulation, thus responsible people would still reproduce"
Today I will prove that overpopulation is in fact a result of reproduction. My argument goes like this:

P1. Reproduction causes more humans
P2. The number of humans has been rising
C. The rising population is a result of reproduction.

Overpopulation is not the result of the factors my opponent listed, but a result of people reproducing.

The population has been rising over the past years, if you look at this graph.

http://i42.tinypic.com...;

As you see, in the modern age, population has increased a lot. The definition of responsible is accountable for one's actions. Responsible people know about the population growing, thus they will take the responsibility not to reproduce. Adopting would solve the problem because no new humans have been created.

My opponent's argument about rights does not apply because this debate is about responsibility, not rights.

Sources
http://www.subdude-site.com...;
http://www.worldometers.info...;
http://www.scientificamerican.com...;
http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Anayansi

Con

Thank you very much for taking the debate.

Rebuttals:

My opponent claims that:
“P1. Reproduction causes more humans
P2. The number of humans has been rising
C. The rising population is a result of reproduction.”

While I certainly have no problem with the above logic, I do find fault in his subsequent conclusion that:

“Overpopulation is not the result of the factors [] listed, but a result of people reproducing.”

This falsely equates population increase with overpopulation. It equates a trend (population increase) with a snapshot (overpopulation). And, most importantly, it totally ignores the fact that overpopulation is not defined as a trend, and it is not even defined solely as population density, but rather as the population density that exceeds the environment's carrying capacity.

Considering that every region has a different environment (climate, resources), a different population density, different agricultural practices, and yields, and that environmental management and population conditions vary by region, we can see that overpopulation is a regional, and even sub-regional, phenomenon. The same population density can be sustained (carried) in a specific environment while it is not sustainable in another environment.

Asking people from a non-overpopulated region to stop reproducing, mind you, not even to reproduce below replacement level but to flat out STOP reproducing, will not solve overpopulation problems in another region. Asking people to stop reproducing creates population ageing, which brings about another series of problems. You do not ask a person who has one foot in a bucket of boiling water to correct the situation by putting their other foot in a bucket of icy water. Overpopulation has to be corrected in the affected region.

Adoption will not solve overpopulation in problem areas. It only applies to unwanted children, and even then, mass adoptions of orphans are not feasible due to legal regulations. Besides, international organizations advise, and set as a priority, for children to stay within their communities, their ethnic group and their cultures. Adoption is a measure that yields minimal results, and any desire to expedite it, or increase its scope can produce children trafficking, and other human rights violations. The issues with "cowboy adoptions" in Haiti after the earthquake are a case in point.

I agree that responsible people know about the population growing, but they also should know about
the specific situation of their environment to make responsible decisions to prevent population issues, such as overpopulation in some cases, and population ageing in others.

Allow me to present an example to illustrate my point:

The population density of Netherlands and India are very similar, but it is India the one that is overpopulated, suffering from massive environmental deterioration. If a Dutch family decides not to reproduce and adopt instead, it will have no impact on India’s overpopulation. As a matter of fact, Netherlands has had a below-replacement fertility rate for years, and India keeps being overpopulated.

To correct the two elements of overpopulation: density and environment, there needs to be a change in population and economic policies, and environmental management, in the affected area, not in overpopulation-free areas.

___________________
http://www.facebook.com...


http://news.bbc.co.uk...

www.oecd.org/dataoecd/51/60/2958654.pdf


http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com...

http://longevity-science.org...
1dustpelt

Pro

1dustpelt forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Anayansi

Con

I believe that the previous rounds provide voters with enough material to make a decision.

1dustpelt

Pro

Oh dear, I am extremely sorry. That will teach me not to take on 8 debates at a time. Please give my opponent conduct.

Rebuttals
"This falsely equates population increase with overpopulation. It equates a trend (population increase) with a snapshot (overpopulation). And, most importantly, it totally ignores the fact that overpopulation is not defined as a trend, and it is not even defined solely as population density, but rather as the population density that exceeds the environment's carrying capacity."
Let's look at the definition of overpopulate.

o·ver·pop·u·late   [oh-ver-pop-yuh-leyt] Show IPA


verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
to fill with an excessive number of people, straining available resources and facilities: Expanding industry has overpopulated the western suburbs.

As you see, you do not have to
exceed the environment's carrying capacity to overpopulate, but straining the resources overpopulates. Acording to a research topic, two-thirds of the world's resources are used up, straining the resources. Thus, I have proved my first Burden, The world is overpopulated.

"Considering that every region has a different environment (climate, resources), a different population density, different agricultural practices, and yields, and that environmental management and population conditions vary by region, we can see that overpopulation is a regional, and even sub-regional, phenomenon. The same population density can be sustained (carried) in a specific environment while it is not sustainable in another environment."
Although overpopulation is regional, the regions are big. The regions that are not overpopulated usually have few resources, for example, Russia. Again, two-thirds of the world's resources are used up.

"Asking people from a non-overpopulated region to stop reproducing, mind you, not even to reproduce below replacement level but to flat out STOP reproducing, will not solve overpopulation problems in another region. Asking people to stop reproducing creates population ageing, which brings about another series of problems. You do not ask a person who has one foot in a bucket of boiling water to correct the situation by putting their other foot in a bucket of icy water. Overpopulation has to be corrected in the affected region."
I have never mentioned that people should be asked to solve overpopulation in anoher region. We are looking at this as an worldwide problem. Besides, people can adopt children from different regions of the world. If all responsible people from around the world adopt, preferably from overpopulated regions, then not only would it solve the problem of homeless children, but would also lower the population. If responsible people stop reproducing, it would not end the human species because many people are not responsible.

"Adoption will not solve overpopulation in problem areas. It only applies to unwanted children, and even then, mass adoptions of orphans are not feasible due to legal regulations. Besides, international organizations advise, and set as a priority, for children to stay within their communities, their ethnic group and their cultures. Adoption is a measure that yields minimal results, and any desire to expedite it, or increase its scope can produce children trafficking, and other human rights violations. The issues with "cowboy adoptions" in Haiti after the earthquake are a case in point."
Adoption is a very good method. According to the American Pregnancy Association, adoption,

Potential Benefits for the Birthmother:


    • Housing assistance may be available

    • Counseling and support

    • The opportunity to accomplish specific goals whether educational, travel, or career

    • The opportunity to enable the dreams you have for your child to come true

    • Prenatal and delivery expenses paid as needed

    • A better choice of doctors and staff

    • The opportunity to choose a family for your child that you like, and the chance to get to know them personally

    • A support group of birth mothers with whom you can share experiences

    • Access by other members of your family to counseling and support services

    • Paid legal expenses and attorney fees

    • The unique opportunity to bring happiness and joy to others

    • The peace and satisfaction that come from knowing that the adoptive parents understand that you love your baby enough to insure his or her well-being


Benefits for the Child:

    • The love and support of adoptive parents who are emotionally and financially able to parent

    • A desirable home and family life

    • A two parent home that might also include brothers and sisters

    • Resources and provisions that might not otherwise ever have been available

    • The chance for better education


Benefits for the Adoptive Family:

    • The joy and blessing of adding a child to their family

    • Opportunity to go learn about pregnancy and related experiences to the extent that might not otherwise be possible

    • Ability to fulfill the dream of raising a child




"The population density of Netherlands and India are very similar, but it is India the one that is overpopulated, suffering from massive environmental deterioration. If a Dutch family decides not to reproduce and adopt instead, it will have no impact on India’s overpopulation. As a matter of fact, Netherlands has had a below-replacement fertility rate for years, and India keeps being overpopulated."
But if people from India adopt instead, then it would solve the problem. Besides, who said that people from Netherlands couldn't adopt a child from India?

"To correct the two elements of overpopulation: density and environment, there needs to be a change in population and economic policies, and environmental management, in the affected area, not in overpopulation-free areas."
Extend arguments.

Conclusion
My opponent has conceded that responsible people know about the population.
I have proved that,
1. The world is overpopulated.
2. Responsible people know about this and take action.
3. Adoption is good and will solve overpopulation.

Although give Conduct to Con, I urge a Pro vote. Arguments-I have proven my point. Sources-My opponent used Facebook as a source.

http://www.guardian.co.uk...
http://www.americanpregnancy.org...
http://www.overpopulation.net...
http://www.worldometers.info...


Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by frozen_eclipse 5 years ago
frozen_eclipse
dumfounded......
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
+1 ike
Posted by 000ike 5 years ago
000ike
Yeah, dustpelt should not have won this..
Posted by FourTrouble 5 years ago
FourTrouble
I wish I had seen this earlier, Con absolutely should have won.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
con should have won
Posted by Anayansi 5 years ago
Anayansi
Pro did not follow the rules of the debate, as the last round was not for rebuttals but for summary. Vote Con.
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
So pro has to prove that (1) the world is overpopulated, (2) responsible people know that, (3) therefore they should not produce. That's allot of resolutions for one debate.
Posted by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
Oh dear, I thought I had more time! Extremely sorry.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
lol pro forgets to point out fertility rates are dropping which means population will decline.
http://www.google.com...

If we leave it s is and let people keep doing their thing population will decline. The US and Europe's fertility rate will fall down a lot (we will have immigration to make up for it). And yeah, population will decline soon if we leave as is. http://www.nature.com...
good article
Posted by Anayansi 5 years ago
Anayansi
@dustpelt, you are too modest.

@adam, I can agree with that! I have one child myself, and did consider adoption, but at the time they gave preference to childless families. Too late to adopt now.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
Anayansi1dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:25 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to con for the forfeit. I feel this debate was rather one sided, and can see why the pro noticed this too as the resolution is vague. I give arguments to pro because of his resources argument. At the very least, con could have argued something on reconsolidation methods. I give sources to pro as well. Con made a bunch of claims, that were not supported by evidence. She did post sources, but none of them were relevant to the information she provided. lack of education? Provide proof.
Vote Placed by SuburbiaSurvivor 5 years ago
SuburbiaSurvivor
Anayansi1dustpeltTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Anayansi1dustpeltTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF