The Instigator
Pro (for)
5 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
2 Points

The worst thing you can do for those you love is the things they could and should do themselves.

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,079 times Debate No: 20953
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)




Abraham Lincoln was right when he said this because he knew that for you to make it in society you have to work hard, build character, develop morals, etc. It's sad people do not live by that now because everyone thinks everything should be given to them that's why 45.8 million people in august of 2011 was on the food stamp program that is over 15% of the national economy( People just do not work hard no more they think everything should be given to them that's why we should have more restrictions on our food stamp program not grant anybody food stamps because they get spoiled and from then on expect everything be given to them.and that is......... The worst thing you can do for those you love is the things they could and should do themselves.


ok so your don't think people need food stamps. you think that a mother of 3 working a forty hour a week job trying to care for her kids doesn't deserve help? you are wrong. i can note that some folks abuse the system but not all not even most. you have tighter regulations and restrictions. i say you are ruthless and selfish individual who goal does not seek the improvement of our nation.
did you know that a mother of four with out a job will get around 700.00 a month to feed her children which is alot. but here is the thing as soon as she obtains a job that pays her minimum wage and works her more than 30 hours a week. roughly 217.50 a week before taxes they will change the amount to less than 340.00 requiring the mother who was close to actually getting a head and providing a slightly high grade of life for her children back to were she was earlier.
when you cut the support by so much when such a merge job was acquired how do you expect any person to honestly get ahead.

i say any person who has never needed government assistance for anything should live with nothing for a week.
to all you wonderful college people who think welfare is a drain and you don't think your taxes dollars should help others. i ask did you get government money for your schooling? how about we stop that too. the government is here to assist the population to improve the social standing of all it's people.

i don't think as a country we should take what little those underdogs have but stop wasting time and effort on the not needed.
Debate Round No. 1


Ok my opening argument completely went over your head. I said that their should be more RESTRICTIONS on food stamps not take the food stamps away completely. I agree with you on he mother I think the people that need food stamps the most our single mothers with children and there no good boyfriend-daddy left them they are the ones that need help a lot. But they have to be working or at last trying to find a job you can not just give them something if their not willing to work for it that is what Abraham Lincoln is saying do not just give people anything because that spoils them and everyone look a our country now everyone expects everything to be given to them and that's not true you need hard work, confidence, and determination to succeeded in life. I know what your saying well what if they can not get hired even if they are looking for a job. Well they should at least be doing community service making a town look better doing something to earn what their getting community service would help so much. Abraham Lincoln was one of Americas greatest presidents, and if he saw our country today and saw how a lot of Americans expect everything to be given to them he would be so disappointed and say you see what will happen if you just give people everything without them working for it they will become lazy and spoiled. And also your conduct is really immature calling me ruthless and selfish and Implying things like how I do not care and also worry about myself. I do care I care about this nation ad want to get America working for things again and not expect it to be given to them.


Lincoln you say? greatest presidents you say? that opinion nothing more imposible to argue for or against as neither of us was alive during his reign as leader or meet the man personally? i personally think the goverment should give more not welfare money but more. it should stop wasting time with anything other than improving the life of people around america. like handing out jobs, housing, forcing people with too much to give back. how can we expect the lower class to do more when the rich and greedy keep taking away. you want community service i like that idea ut lets make the people with millions of dollars do it not the peope trying to figure out how to keep the lights on. get some of those rich suit wearing fat cats that can spend 10,000 on a bottle of scotch. so they can enjoy drinks while looking out from there 2 million dollar highriase while a guy 3 blocks away sleeps on a park bench. your argument is if you give they wont learn how make it with out you. i don't believe it. consider the fact that most those people who need asistance got that way from bad policies created by rich politiancians in order to asist there already rich friends to stay rich. take mitt rouney he makes 57,000 a day from interst on his investment. what did he in vest in? failing companies that him and his friends bought fired the work force then divided up and sold off. but did you see that number 57,000 aday that more than 2/5 of american families make in a year and he makes it in a day.

ever consider that the reason the goverment hands out so much is from the guilt they feel from all they have done in the past to the lower class.
Debate Round No. 2


of course I have never met him but we can see what he did through out his presidency and a type of man he rough out history. Also you keep on thinking that I'm saying we need to get rid of food stamps I'M NOT I'm just saying we need more restrictions and I think your talking about Mitt Romney not Mitt rouney and I'm not a Romney fan but he is right when he made this statement is it his fault he is wealthy of course not he made investments and and took risk and came out to be a successful man. And you also think I'm bashing the 99% let me tell you I'm not I'm not wealthy what so ever but I have a job I'm making 7.50 an hour and doing what ever I can to pay for college and one day when I will be successful am I going to say hey I should feel guilty that I'm successful not I will say I worked my butt of for my education, my food, and gas money. I worked cleaning toilets cleaning parking lots doing all that stuff and I should feel guilty heck no I should feel proud that I started at the bottom and worked my way up. The point is that I work hard If I'm successful then I did it myself by working nothing was given to me and when stuff is given to you you tend like it so much that you stay where your at in life cause its just good enough your not working you getting stuff for free you do not want to do better. When you do horrible jobs like me cleaning toilets mopping floors cleaning parking lots It makes you say I do not want to be like this for the rest of my life I want to be successful own business so I can Create jobs for other Americans and let me ask you this what is wrong with people that do not have a job getting food stamps and other government programs what is wrong with them doing community service to help their community look better tell me what's wrong with that


a lot of people work hard and never make it or after they do some where. rich people come in buy there company up cut it in to pieces fire everyone. and sell it all off. as for people doing some sort of free service sure let those people who don't have time go out and spend time away from their kids to pick up a park. sure lets force them to do that but while they are the government can hand out another check to pay the sitter to watch those kids.

i will never support making the poor do more while the rich do nothing but create more poor. rather than pay more in taxes or find ways to contribute to the country. the rich spend millions each year on lobbyist to ensure any new law or guide lines that might hurt there pocket book doesn't get past.

i have never actually thought you wanted to take away welfare completely but any new restriction placed on it will do nothing but disrupt the service and harm the people in need. if you going take away from already imperfect system making it more imperfect it's the same as dismantling it. it's a limited service as it stands it only covers food. a product that is on the constant raise in cost. plus you have yet to list any form or your new regulations thats what government officials do right be for the ram it in deep on the American consumer.

the government needs to leave welfare alone and improve other programs and laws to ensure people receive the assistance they need
Debate Round No. 3


Ok this is my lat post so I'm going finalize everything first I would like to thank you for debating with me. Also I would like to go back to when you sad even if people do become successful rich people buy there company up....well you got to remember they sell them to the rich people so they know that the rich people are going to buy it. Also listing the exact things I want done to food stamps the new restrictions and how it should be reform is a another debate. And something you do not understand is if people are getting something free like food stamps and they are not doing nothing not looking for a job just being lazy there is nothing wrong with them working doing community service or something that will not only make the community look better but also help them they can say you know what I do not want to be picking up trash and painting walls for the rest of my life I want to try to get a great paying job where I do not have to do this also one thing you are missing is if you are successful and you worked hard to get there.....there is nothing wrong with that you should feel proud the sweat of your brow got you where your at. Just like I said I clean bathrooms and clean parking lots bag groceries and when I'm successful I'm going to say that first job I had help me get where I'm at today. It made say I want to do better just like I said if people getting stuff free they just tend to stay that way cause everything is going good for them. Just think of all the people that get food stamps and are not looking for job and abusing the system if they did community service a while to earn them food stamps and they realize I do not want to do this the rest of my life and they open up business and expand them to create American jobs just think how much that would help America. America now has a reputation of being lazy always want something given to them and that is horrible that people think were like that and see back in 1865 when Abraham Lincoln said "The worst thing you can do for those you love is the things they could and should do themselves" he wanted to prevent America from getting this reputation he wanted America to work for there things build character go farther in life not just take advantage of the Government and be lazy just think of this if people did follow this quote where would America be today


My opponent would like the government to make people do it for them selves he keeps quoting lincoln "The worst thing you can do for those you love is the things they could and should do themselves" where would America be? well it would have more starving children. more prostitutes, drug dealers, higher crime rates, people living in parks and under bridges.

welfare isn't about the people who abuse it it's about the people who use it.

my opponent stated that companies only get sold to rich people of there own choice your right. the choice of board members who want to line there pockets. all the other people the common works the office workers yeah it wasn't there choice but yet they lost their job because of it. a week ago none of those people need aid from the government but know they all do. So 10 guys on a board could buy better suits. 1,000 or even 50,000 people are job less who have homes, families, bills, and urges to eat. These are the people that welfare is designed for. Yet my opponent want to penalize them over the few percent that don't ever amount to anything or live as a constant drain as he says the lazy ones. When in truth less than 20% of welfare recipients use the service fr more than 5 years 30 % use the service for less than 1 year in fact.
my opponent claims the rest of the world see's our nation as lazy. when the rest of the world also has similar programs to welfare for it's low income families. yes we are the lead spender but we also have the largest population of people we are taking care of. when you look at many Africa and Asian countries the number of people still starving and dieing from lack of medicine daily is in the thousands even ten's of thousands. That's what my opponent in this issue wants more of our American's dieing in the streets.
i am not nor should any one else be in favor of cutting welfare programs or alter the current ones in thing les than to expand them. with out providing our nation with jobs not small jobs making 10.00 or less an hour but real jobs the ones people can raise a family on save money on.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by FriendlyLittleQuaker 4 years ago
Having read everything AGAIN, I find that too many times you attacked your opponent needlessly instead of sticking to the topic and what was actually said, not supposedly implied.
Posted by noctos 4 years ago
i would state i didn't attack my opponent i attacked his points on the topic. i used facts where as he used a belief system that people are lazy. you might want to read everything
Posted by FriendlyLittleQuaker 4 years ago
Freddie.blakley has argued the point effectively.
Noctos spent too much time attacking his opponent.
Posted by Maikuru 4 years ago
That's worse than actively harming or hindering them?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by fredman15 4 years ago
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Total points awarded:52 
Reasons for voting decision: Noctos used more attacking his opponent more then talking about the quote Abraham Lincoln said he used more talking about rich people then actually talking about how America would be if people actually done things for themselves